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 BryllCream wrote:

 xole wrote:
100 plague bearers is 900 points of t4 shrouded goodness. The smelly tide approaches...

You know what happens when you ignite methane, right?

Beautiful, Beautiful things. I admit flamers will hinder them, and that will just be part of the fun.

Also, anyone all ragey, feel free to sell me your Nurgle stuff. My ad is up in the swap shop.

 labmouse42 wrote:

Mohoc wrote:
Tell you what. I will still give my 120 Plaguebearers a lease on life. We will see how they play out with the new codex. Time to stop being negative about one unit when I like everything else I have seen so far.

120 is quite a bit!
If your using them as your main punch, you will need 4 heralds to help boost the damage output -- their biggest weakness.

You also want to use some beasts as elites and flies as fast attack. Your going to need something that can actually deliver a blow. That will also keep your theme going.
I would bring 80 plague bearers, with one herald in each squad. Start with that and see how it works. Oh, and a palequin for each herald. Those are pretty good.
Remember, heralds are ICs and LoS on a 2+. This means if your not ID'ed your not going to be hurt badly by barrage weapons. Manticores will mess up your day, but hey -- every list has bad matchups.

Here is the last batch I painted,

...why do I have images of a burgeoning futures market on 40k army releases?

"The price of eldar guardians rose 8% after rumours of them receiving pistol + ccw surfaced, though wave serpants continued to boom on strong rumours of them receiving Assault Vehicle USR"

Thanks guys for answering my question about the Soul Grinder's close combat attacks so quickly and thereby calming my nerves.

In an Allied Detachment you must take at least one Troops choice and one HQ. I wonder if a single Herald good enough for the HQ choice...

Chaospling wrote:
Thanks guys for answering my question about the Soul Grinder's close combat attacks so quickly and thereby calming my nerves.

In an Allied Detachment you must take at least one Troops choice and one HQ. I wonder if a single Herald good enough for the HQ choice...

To tell you the truth, at first I had planned to have Daemons as allies. After taking some time with the dex, I think they are much better off as a Primary Army, and my CSM will be allies.

You gain a lot more benefits by having CD as primary, compared to allies. The 4 Heralds and Warpstorm were the big deciding factors for me.

The new Plaguebearers look great to me. I'm bummed I've only got 21 ready to go. I can see why people might be dissapointed with them--the base unit is pretty dull. T4, Shrouded, not much else to see. But I think with Nurgle Heralds in the mix, there's room for a lot more flavor than there previously was. Take the Presence of Virulence, 2+ poison for your Herald and his maxed out unit of Plaguebearers. There's your Plaguebearer assault unit. Want a durable scoring unit?/Missing FNP? Well they've got a presence for that too. Then you've got the Nurgle Psychic powers, which could come in handy (-D3 WS/I on a unit in assault with 20 2+ poison Plaguebearers could be huge). Point being, there's actually options to customize Plaguebearers now. YAY. T5/FNP's great, very Nurgly and all, but that's All. There. Was. No variation unless you wanted .. what, an Instrument?

I'm liking all the new troops and Heralds, really. Heralds are boring, boring, boring in the current codex. Troops are even worse. The thing exciting me most about this new book is that there seems to be actual synergy between Heralds and their attached units. Like Necron Crypteks, they allow what start out as dull, inflexible units to become all sorts of different things. Finally, there is the added bonus of being able to add awesome character models to units. E.g., I finally get to use this guy. Oh, and this guy's definitely going with my Pink Horrors.

 whigwam wrote:
The new Plaguebearers look great to me. I'm bummed I've only got 21 ready to go. I can see why people might be dissapointed with them--the base unit is pretty dull. T4, Shrouded, not much else to see. But I think with Nurgle Heralds in the mix, there's room for a lot more flavor than there previously was. Take the Presence of Virulence, 2+ poison for your Herald and his maxed out unit of Plaguebearers. There's your Plaguebearer assault unit. Want a durable scoring unit?/Missing FNP? Well they've got a presence for that too. Then you've got the Nurgle Psychic powers, which could come in handy (-D3 WS/I on a unit in assault with 20 2+ poison Plaguebearers could be huge). Point being, there's actually options to customize Plaguebearers now. YAY. T5/FNP's great, very Nurgly and all, but that's All. There. Was. No variation unless you wanted .. what, an Instrument?

I'm really liking all the new troops and Heralds, really. Heralds are boring, boring, boring in the current codex. Troops are even worse. The thing exciting me most about this new book is that there seems to be actual synergy between Heralds and their attached units. Like Necron Crypteks, they allow what start out as dull, inflexible units to become all sorts of different things. Finally, there is the added bonus of being able to add awesome character models to units. E.g., I finally get to use this guy. Oh, and this guy's definitely going with my Pink Horrors.

Couple of problems though. Loci only allow for the strongest one to be used, so you can't stack more than one in a unit, and use them.

The Loci of Virulence isn't that good either. You only get the 2+ poison on to hit rolls of six. I'd always take the FNP one, because the greater Loci isn't really that good either IMO.

With a Nurgle Hearled, I'd go for the FNP Loci, and an Exalted gift. If you don't like the Gift, you can nab the Balesword, which is 4+ poison, instant death, and Touch of rust.

 Sasori wrote:


You gain a lot more benefits by having CD as primary, compared to allies. The 4 Heralds and Warpstorm were the big deciding factors for me.

I still see the advantage of shooty mech, cheap fighty Lords in fast units and the Helldrake/oblit combo as worth keeping CSM my main guys. That, and I have no patience for playing hordes.

But CD seem to have made using sorcerers entirely obsolete for CSM. You have access to better disciplines, can pick and choose freely as long as you stay away from named characters (which is freaking bizarre. A Nurgle sorcerer is forced to take Nurgle powers but an actual embodiment of Nurgle can go all-in on Biomancy?). So you can either go for a big 5-wound honking daemon psyker or double up on a pair of herals to back up your Chaos beatstick of choice.

Chaospling wrote:
Thanks guys for answering my question about the Soul Grinder's close combat attacks so quickly and thereby calming my nerves.

In an Allied Detachment you must take at least one Troops choice and one HQ. I wonder if a single Herald good enough for the HQ choice...

Yes a single Herald is an HQ choice and would work just fine. They are so affordable, though, having 2 is always fun.

Skriker

Just looking at all the gifts, powers, random charts..

It's going to take some major bookkeeping to keep track of it all.

 Sephyr wrote:
But CD seem to have made using sorcerers entirely obsolete for CSM. You have access to better disciplines, can pick and choose freely as long as you stay away from named characters (which is freaking bizarre. A Nurgle sorcerer is forced to take Nurgle powers but an actual embodiment of Nurgle can go all-in on Biomancy?). So you can either go for a big 5-wound honking daemon psyker or double up on a pair of herals to back up your Chaos beatstick of choice.

Nah, the Chaos Sorcerer still has a very solid role: he's an IC (which the greater daemons aren't), can go up to level 3 (and you don't have to buy a mark), and has access to the Spell Familiar, which helps out a lot against Tyranids & Eldar anti-psychic defense. And he's not terribly expensive for all that.

That said, you can stack a LOT of psychic goodness into a mixed list now, if that's your desire.

the stone of the damned: at the beginning of the assault phase. every enemy character models that are not daemons have to make a ld test. if it passes, nothing happens. if it loses. the model has -d6 on his ld value. if a model goes below 0 this way. it gets removed instantly without saves allowed.

If this works the way it looks like it does, my PBS just became character murderers.

 xole wrote:

the stone of the damned: at the beginning of the assault phase. every enemy character models that are not daemons have to make a ld test. if it passes, nothing happens. if it loses. the model has -d6 on his ld value. if a model goes below 0 this way. it gets removed instantly without saves allowed.

If this works the way it looks like it does, my PBS just became character murderers.

You have to get an Exalted gift for this. On everything you would normally buy exalted gifts for, you are likely better off purchasing two greater gifts. So, I don't know if we'll see a lot of Hellforged Artifacts. You'd most likely see it on a DP or a Bloodthirster, since they can/have a 3+ armor save. Most things with that, will usually wreck most squads on their own anyway.

EDIT: I guess you could take it on Herald if you wanted though.

The Grimoire of True names is my favorite though. I plan to combine that and some Bloodcrushers!

The Eternal Sword looks nice on the monstrous demons for +1 STR AP2 (since they are MC) and D3 extra attacks.

Ye, the grimoire seems the way to make the bloodcrushers somewhat resilient again.

 Shandara wrote:
The Eternal Sword looks nice on the monstrous demons for +1 STR AP2 (since they are MC) and D3 extra attacks.

Ye, the grimoire seems the way to make the bloodcrushers somewhat resilient again.

The Eternal Sword is nice, with D3 improvements to attacks, I and WS. At least with the Vanilla GDs I'd rather purchase two Greater gifts, and hope for the +1W IWND, 4+FNP, Reroll Invuls, and 3+ Armor results. I think you really need those to make most of the GDs better. Landing two of those is downright amazing if you get lucky.

 Sasori wrote:

 xole wrote:

the stone of the damned: at the beginning of the assault phase. every enemy character models that are not daemons have to make a ld test. if it passes, nothing happens. if it loses. the model has -d6 on his ld value. if a model goes below 0 this way. it gets removed instantly without saves allowed.

If this works the way it looks like it does, my PBS just became character murderers.

You have to get an Exalted gift for this. On everything you would normally buy exalted gifts for, you are likely better off purchasing two greater gifts. So, I don't know if we'll see a lot of Hellforged Artifacts. You'd most likely see it on a DP or a Bloodthirster, since they can/have a 3+ armor save. Most things with that, will usually wreck most squads on their own anyway.

EDIT: I guess you could take it on Herald if you wanted though.

The Grimoire of True names is my favorite though. I plan to combine that and some Bloodcrushers!

I agree with you on 2 greaters>1 exalted, at least for the character himself, simply because all of the greater gifts are good no matter who they go on. But I think sticking a few exalted gifts on Heralds wouldn't be bad. I like the Grimoire of True Names as well, and even the portalglyph(Does anyone know if you roll for more daemons from the portal glyph each daemon movement phase or just once?) I want to model a portalglyph of nurgle.

 xole wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 xole wrote:

the stone of the damned: at the beginning of the assault phase. every enemy character models that are not daemons have to make a ld test. if it passes, nothing happens. if it loses. the model has -d6 on his ld value. if a model goes below 0 this way. it gets removed instantly without saves allowed.

If this works the way it looks like it does, my PBS just became character murderers.

You have to get an Exalted gift for this. On everything you would normally buy exalted gifts for, you are likely better off purchasing two greater gifts. So, I don't know if we'll see a lot of Hellforged Artifacts. You'd most likely see it on a DP or a Bloodthirster, since they can/have a 3+ armor save. Most things with that, will usually wreck most squads on their own anyway.

EDIT: I guess you could take it on Herald if you wanted though.

The Grimoire of True names is my favorite though. I plan to combine that and some Bloodcrushers!

I agree with you on 2 greaters>1 exalted, at least for the character himself, simply because all of the greater gifts are good no matter who they go on. But I think sticking a few exalted gifts on Heralds wouldn't be bad. I like the Grimoire of True Names as well, and even the portalglyph(Does anyone know if you roll for more daemons from the portal glyph each daemon movement phase or just once?) I want to model a portalglyph of nurgle.

You roll for it at the end of each movement phase, after it's been placed

What about the +1 Invulnerable Saves from the Warpstorm chart, or the 4+ Invulnerable from the Divination powers combined with the Grimoire on some Tzeentch Daemons for a 2++ rerolling fails.

 Sasori wrote:
You roll for it at the end of each movement phase, after it's been placed

Well, guess I have a modelling project to do then.

Being able to field 120 bloodletters, all armed with with Power Weapons and S5 on the charge for only 1200 points leaves me VERY tempted to start Daemons. I'm gonna wait until more info on the possible new Bloodthirster release though, since the current one is [Please do not try to circumvent the expletive filter - thanks!] hideous...

 xole wrote:

the stone of the damned: at the beginning of the assault phase. every enemy character models that are not daemons have to make a ld test. if it passes, nothing happens. if it loses. the model has -d6 on his ld value. if a model goes below 0 this way. it gets removed instantly without saves allowed.

If this works the way it looks like it does, my PBS just became character murderers.

Thats how it works but only against models in melee.

Good lord ... this is almost as bad as Zombie spam my friend did on me.

5++ ... Check

100+ models... Check

Fearless ... They got something even better

On top of that add in a Herald to make them even more of a pain.

Thats not not even counting their special rules of each individual unit ... Shroud ... AP 3 Attacks ... Rending.

Who ever says Daemons suck dosnt under stand 6th edition. Its all about Quantity over Quality ... which is why artillery and blasts are making such a big comeback.

I cant wait to see what they do to Orks and IG.

Tyrs13 wrote:
Fearless ... They got something even better

How so? It sounds worse to me. The off chance of getting your casualties replaced is cancelled out by the chance to lose everything. Losing a number of models equal to how much you fail the test by is not better than. "You lose by 6" "OK I'm fine, your turn."

Just a minor rules question here.

When they say that the Changeling swaps his characteristics with another model in base contact, does it mean he gets their stats in exchange for the opponent getting the Changeling's original stats?

Or does he just copy the opponent's stats and they proceed as normal as a near mirror-image of each other?

Lou_Cypher wrote:
Just a minor rules question here.

When they say that the Changeling swaps his characteristics with another model in base contact, does it mean he gets their stats in exchange for the opponent getting the Changeling's original stats?

Or does he just copy the opponent's stats and they proceed as normal as a near mirror-image of each other?

It swaps them from what I understand. Someone with a codex should answer that though.

 Eldarain wrote:

Tyrs13 wrote:
Fearless ... They got something even better

How so? It sounds worse to me. The off chance of getting your casualties replaced is cancelled out by the chance to lose everything. Losing a number of models equal to how much you fail the test by is not better than. "You lose by 6" "OK I'm fine, your turn."

It's worse for close combat. However, against shooting, the unit is effectively Fearless. What this means, however, is that Daemon unit's can Go To Ground. For Plaguebearers, who already get a +2 to their cover save from Shrouded, makes them incredible. Plop them in area terrain, or behind any bit of cover, for a 2+ cover save. Nice!

Mohoc wrote:

Lou_Cypher wrote:
Just a minor rules question here.

When they say that the Changeling swaps his characteristics with another model in base contact, does it mean he gets their stats in exchange for the opponent getting the Changeling's original stats?

Or does he just copy the opponent's stats and they proceed as normal as a near mirror-image of each other?

It swaps them from what I understand. Someone with a codex should answer that though.

The Changeling can choose to take any of the opponents stats, but the opponent is not effected.

punchdub wrote:

Mohoc wrote:

Lou_Cypher wrote:
Just a minor rules question here.

When they say that the Changeling swaps his characteristics with another model in base contact, does it mean he gets their stats in exchange for the opponent getting the Changeling's original stats?

Or does he just copy the opponent's stats and they proceed as normal as a near mirror-image of each other?

It swaps them from what I understand. Someone with a codex should answer that though.

The Changeling can choose to take any of the opponents stats, but the opponent is not effected.

Fantasy has much the same rule right now it sounds like. In fantasy you would "swap" the statistics.. i get yours, you get mine... Im not sure how it reads in the new book however.

Camarodragon wrote:

punchdub wrote:

Mohoc wrote:

Lou_Cypher wrote:
Just a minor rules question here.

When they say that the Changeling swaps his characteristics with another model in base contact, does it mean he gets their stats in exchange for the opponent getting the Changeling's original stats?

Or does he just copy the opponent's stats and they proceed as normal as a near mirror-image of each other?

It swaps them from what I understand. Someone with a codex should answer that though.

The Changeling can choose to take any of the opponents stats, but the opponent is not effected.

Fantasy has much the same rule right now it sounds like. In fantasy you would "swap" the statistics.. i get yours, you get mine... Im not sure how it reads in the new book however.

It's probably not a full swap like the last whfb version of him. If it's a full swap of stats and equipment it would be hilarious to watch him pimp slap a NDK, dlord, or the swarmlord. Players would have to model him as Tyrion Lannister

 schadenfreude wrote:

Camarodragon wrote:

punchdub wrote:

Mohoc wrote:

Lou_Cypher wrote:
Just a minor rules question here.

When they say that the Changeling swaps his characteristics with another model in base contact, does it mean he gets their stats in exchange for the opponent getting the Changeling's original stats?

Or does he just copy the opponent's stats and they proceed as normal as a near mirror-image of each other?

It swaps them from what I understand. Someone with a codex should answer that though.

The Changeling can choose to take any of the opponents stats, but the opponent is not effected.

Fantasy has much the same rule right now it sounds like. In fantasy you would "swap" the statistics.. i get yours, you get mine... Im not sure how it reads in the new book however.

It's probably not a full swap like the last whfb version of him. If it's a full swap of stats and equipment it would be hilarious to watch him pimp slap a NDK, dlord, or the swarmlord. Players would have to model him as Tywin Lannister

No, it [essentially] says what I said it says above. I'm not about to post the entire paragraph.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 schadenfreude wrote:

Camarodragon wrote:

punchdub wrote:

Mohoc wrote:

Lou_Cypher wrote:
Just a minor rules question here.

When they say that the Changeling swaps his characteristics with another model in base contact, does it mean he gets their stats in exchange for the opponent getting the Changeling's original stats?

Or does he just copy the opponent's stats and they proceed as normal as a near mirror-image of each other?

It swaps them from what I understand. Someone with a codex should answer that though.

The Changeling can choose to take any of the opponents stats, but the opponent is not effected.

Fantasy has much the same rule right now it sounds like. In fantasy you would "swap" the statistics.. i get yours, you get mine... Im not sure how it reads in the new book however.

It's probably not a full swap like the last whfb version of him. If it's a full swap of stats and equipment it would be hilarious to watch him pimp slap a NDK, dlord, or the swarmlord. Players would have to model him as Tywin Lannister

No, it [essentially] says what I said it says above. I'm not about to post the entire paragraph.