Daemons of Chaos Rumours (Fantasy & 40k) - First post updated with release list, prices, and pics!

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**eohall**

Sephyr wrote:

"Stop this charge NOW, my fellow Bloodletters! Kharn is trying to be a party pooper and tag along again! Warp help me young man, I'll turn this slaughter right around and head home if you don't behave!"

I LOLed

**whoadirty**

You could argue that there might be communication barriers between Plague Marines and Daemons of Nurgle that would get in the way of the PMs actually being led by a Daemon. There is a difference between fighting alongside one another (allies) and actually being told what to do by an allied force on the battlefield.

That doesn't excuse the general ridiculousness of things like DE/Eldar fist bumps, but for CSM/CD I think it is a reasonable "real world" explanation.

**matphat**

I'm hoping to hear something positive about Daemons as an elite army in this codex, otherwise, all my wife's models are getting relegated to D&D monsters for our next campaign.
I refuse to purchase another 60-70 troops and paint them.

**Punisher Gatling Cannon**

matphat wrote:
I'm hoping to hear something positive about Daemons as an elite army in this codex, otherwise, all my wife's models are getting relegated to D&D monsters for our next campaign.
I refuse to purchase another 60-70 troops and paint them.

From the rumours it sounds like you can do both. Horde deamons or elite deamons and maybe some Flying Circus.

**wuestenfux**

Punisher Gatling Cannon wrote:
matphat wrote:
I'm hoping to hear something positive about Daemons as an elite army in this codex, otherwise, all my wife's models are getting relegated to D&D monsters for our next campaign.
I refuse to purchase another 60-70 troops and paint them.

From the rumours it sounds like you can do both. Horde deamons or elite deamons and maybe some Flying Circus.

Both seems possible. A horde army with many troop units since troops are cheap, 9-10 pts per model.
A flying circus could contain 3 DPs (as heavy support) which are unlocked by taking a GD, and another DP as HQ.

**labmouse42**

matphat wrote:
I'm hoping to hear something positive about Daemons as an elite army in this codex, otherwise, all my wife's models are getting relegated to D&D monsters for our next campaign.
I refuse to purchase another 60-70 troops and paint them.

You know you can still use them for your D&D campaign and play 40k with them. Those two are not mutually exclusive.

wuestenfux wrote:

Both seems possible. A horde army with many troop units since troops are cheap, 9-10 pts per model.
A flying circus could contain 3 DPs (as heavy support) which are unlocked by taking a GD, and another DP as HQ.

I was thinking of something like this, if your looking for a flying circus at 1750 points.
LoC w/greater reward, lvl 3 psyker
LoC w/greater reward, lvl 3 psyker
DP of Tzeentch w/Wings, Armor, lvl 3 psyker
DP of Tzeentch w/Wings, Armor, lvl 3 psyker
DP of Tzeentch w/Wings, Armor, lvl 3 psyker
15 plague bearers
15 plague bearers

Each DP/LoC is throwing out 4d6 STR 5, AP 4 shots per turn. You have enough rolls to where you can try for bolt, or grab fun stuff from other trees.
I'm sure as get the book and dig through it we will find even more combos. My guesses on point costs are what I heard for rumors, so I might be off on what you can bring.

**Sephyr**

"A flying circus could contain 3 DPs (as heavy support) which are unlocked by taking a GD, and another DP as HQ.

**Ratius**

Forgive perhaps an already answered Q in this thread but for the 40k version is the split army Daemon DS rule still in place or can you deploy as normal like everyone else now?

**labmouse42**

Sephyr wrote:
If that army ever sees Rune Priests or Eldar runes on the table, though, pretty much all of its shooting is gone.

Which is fine by me, as flying circus as a borderline abusive build.

The same thing happens with horror shooting builds. Tzeentch has bad matchup vs Eldar / SW.

**LValx**

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
skarsol wrote:
I suspect as more and more 6th edition books come out, they'll all be locked down in a similar fashion.

Yup. It's plainly obvious that GW is being very careful to leave the door wide open for the removal of Allies in 7th.

I would be very surprised if allies remained in 7th. Knowing GW, allies was implemented both as a way for certain armies that lacked things (anti-air, fliers, long range weapons, etc.) to get them, and more cynically, so they could force people to buy different armies. Once 6th nears its end and most armies get access to these things in some way, allies will be removed entirely. Most tournaments already don't allow them if I'm not mistaken (along with double FOC buts that's a whole other issue).

The vast majority of tournaments allow allies... you need to do a better job of mastering your google-fu

**skarsol**

Ratius wrote:
Forgive perhaps an already answered Q in this thread but for the 40k version is the split army Daemon DS rule still in place or can you deploy as normal like everyone else now?

They deploy as everyone else, but all have deep strike.

**Quintinus**

skarsol wrote:
Lesser: Adamantium Will
Greater: Rage
Exalted: Hatred

Eh, pretty weak overall especially considering that one of the Nurgle one grants freakin' FNP.

That's fine though ,more points to spend on Bloodthirsters.

**Ratius**

They deploy as everyone else, but all have deep strike.

So they may choose to deploy as normal or go full DS?
If full DS do they still have to split forces?

Sorry if this has been covered

**skarsol**

Ratius wrote:
They deploy as everyone else, but all have deep strike.

So they may choose to deploy as normal or go full DS?
If full DS do they still have to split forces?

Sorry if this has been covered

They do not have the option to go full DS.

**ClassicCarraway**

Raulengrin wrote:

On topic: Why do people think it's obvious that GW is leaving the door open to get rid of allies in 7th edition by saying in 6th edition books that things can't ally. By your logic, GW's ploy is to get people to buy multiple armies. So wouldn't it make more sense to let people ally CSMs and Daemons, then simply remove the ally rules in the 7th edition rulebook? That way they can be that money-grubbing, greedy, capitalist company that we all know Gamesworkshop to be (that was sarcasm, by the way). Why would the codices need the rules to disallow allies when, according to you, allies won't be allowed at all in the next rule set, all the while saying GW is trying to get all our moneyz? And to scream "it makes no sense!!" before you even have the codex in your hand is equally silly. Unless, of course, you speak fluent German.

Yeah, I'm with you, I don't see it as GW trying to squash allies. More than likely, they are trying to squash abusing the allies system. I personally don't see a problem with CSM not being able to join/lead a CD unit and vice versa. Its more to do with the army synergy then power-gaming the system. CSM offer small units of durable, ranged firepower to CD's frail but very large and extremely hard hitting assault units. Its similar to how IG work well with loyal marines, IG bring the cheap bullet stoppers and objective squaters, while Marines provide the elite hitting power.

**Rbb**

I haven't seen anyone mention that the banners' special abilities can only be used once per game. I really don't see why when csm get banners that are (in most cases) better and their effects last the whole game.

**Ratius**

They do not have the option to go full DS.

So X% reserve/DS rule applies as mormal?

**skarsol**

It was mentioned a couple days ago. It wouldn't be Chaosy(tm) to have them always in effect!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ratius wrote:

They do not have the option to go full DS.

So X% reserve/DS rule applies as normal?

Correct.

**Grimnarsmate**

Well, time to pack away daemons and break out the marines... That's how desperate it's become.

**labmouse42**

Grimnarsmate wrote:
Well, time to pack away daemons and break out the marines... That's how desperate it's become.

In a meta filled with triple helldrakes and MEQ armies showing poorly in competitive play....

**xole**

Grimnarsmate wrote:
Well, time to pack away daemons and break out the marines... That's how desperate it's become.

Would you care to explain your view on this one?(Or sell me your nurgle)

**Ratius**

^^ interested in the logic too.

What do you see as the problem with new Daemons?

**pretre**

Grimnarsmate has been spewing the doom and gloom for the last couple days. I wouldn't pay too much attention.

**Ratius**

Still though, I'd like to hear 1-2 coherrent anti-Daemon points if possible.

Have you any Grim?

I dont play them myself but have always been very interested in them.
Perhaps now is the time?

**xole**

pretre wrote:
Grimnarsmate has been spewing the doom and gloom for the last couple days. I wouldn't pay too much attention.

I'll pay attention to anything that gets me cheap daemons.

**Grimnarsmate**

Well, we have become a horde army with good CC, but if we lose combat we start to fold. Another build is psychic tzeentch. A sixth of the shooting is shut down before you start to crunch the numbers, then any eldar or space wolves will shut a lot of what's left down. plus one bad warpstorm roll could leave your army with almost no save! What's even more annoying is I've just spent over £150 on my tzeentch daemon army and they've just been hit for 6 with the nerf bat, which is why I might be exaggerating a bit.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I made 1 negative point earlier on, not exactly spewing the doom and gloom.

**skarsol**

Ah, that sucks. The screamer/flamer rules were bound to change though, so can't really knock the book for that.

**pretre**

Grimnarsmate wrote:
Well, we have become a horde army with good CC, but if we lose combat we start to fold.

Or you lose a couple models and hold. You are still fearless, you just lose/gain/poof.

plus one bad warpstorm roll could leave your army with almost no save!

Or hit every unit in the enemy army with a large blast (on a 6).

What's even more annoying is I've just spent over £150 on my tzeentch daemon army and they've just been hit for 6 with the nerf bat, which is why I might be exaggerating a bit.

Aha. There's the rub. Never buy a big army right before they are rebuilt.

**Ratius**

Probably shouldn't have banked on obviously overpowered rules then.

Ah c'mon Skar, hes expressed his counter points, no need to snipe.

Everyones point of view is valid as they see it.

**skarsol**

You're right, I edited my post to be more constructive.