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A Shas and his two frisbees gets caught by some muhreens. "Your ethereals suck, Elly! Just another Socialist plot! Wanna do something about it?"

The Shas'el pushes his drones forward ...

Okay, I can't continue with the silly example, but the Q is:

Given the Codex's nature of Shield Drones able to be fobbed off for wounds, how could a Challenge work out?

Choices:

a. SDs don't fit 'the rest of the unit' and so the Shas can't decline because he and the drones count as a unit, a wacky one of a Crisis Suit and two ablative wounds, that count as models, but already have a built in Look Out, Sir! feature. It can get weird.
b. Shas'el declines the Challenge and the SDs fight instead.
c. Other?
and
D. He accepts the Challenge and can still fob off wounds on the SDs because that's how they work.

Discuss.

Brothererekose wrote:A Shas and his two frisbees gets caught by some muhreens. "Your ethereals suck, Elly! Just another Socialist plot! Wanna do something about it?"

The Shas'el pushes his drones forward ...

Okay, I can't continue with the silly example, but the Q is:

Given the Codex's nature of Shield Drones able to be fobbed off for wounds, how could a Challenge work out?

Choices:

a. SDs don't fit 'the rest of the unit' and so the Shas can't decline because he and the drones count as a unit, a wacky one of a Crisis Suit and two ablative wounds, that count as models, but already have a built in Look Out, Sir! feature. It can get weird.
b. Shas'el declines the Challenge and the SDs fight instead.
c. Other?
and
D. He accepts the Challenge and can still fob off wounds on the SDs because that's how they work.

Discuss.

There was quite a long discussion about this already, just replacing Fenrisian wolves for drones. Some players seem to conclude that just because a model is added to a unit that is taken as wargear this somehow means they aren't actual models, despite what the rules actually say.


Drones are models. They do not even have any special rules to 'fob off wounds' anymore...you might be thinking of the 3rd edition codex?

The only things Shield Drones have now is the Toughness, armor save and unit type of their owner...but beyond that they are treated as any other member of a unit (except that they do get removed when their owner is killed).

But they do have their own profile of characteristics which per the basic game rules means they are a separate model. This means they are totally unable to participate in a challenge that their character is involved in, just like any other member of the unit.

Don't drones take on the unit type of their masters?
So a fire warrior squad's sheild drone is infantry while crisis suits are jet?
Wouldn't that make a characters drones characters too?

liturgies of blood wrote:Don't drones take on the unit type of their masters?
So a fire warrior squad's sheild drone is infantry while crisis suits are jet?
Wouldn't that make a characters drones characters too?

That is correct, and perhaps I should have specified that.

So you can choose to accept a challenge with a shield drone (currently), as they are considered characters like their owners. But if the drone controller does actually accept the challenge then at that point the Drones can no longer help out (except to try the heroic intervention thing in the next round of combat).

liturgies of blood wrote:Don't drones take on the unit type of their masters?
So a fire warrior squad's sheild drone is infantry while crisis suits are jet?
Wouldn't that make a characters drones characters too?

This is a significant problem, I can't recall where but there is certainly precedent that "character" is part of the unit type of a model, and thus when drones inherit their unit type from a character they would become characters themselves.

Other than that weird situation though Yakface is right, the drones can play no role in the challenge of the model which has their drone controller and vice versa, the only way to get a drone involved in a challenge is if you accept that they inherit the "character" unit type, and accept the challenge with the drone instead.

Actually, looking more closely at the rules for unit types (page 44 of the rulebook) reveals that 'character' is not a unit type at all, but just something that a model may be noted as having.

As such, I don't actually think Shield Drones count as being characters. Because for example, when an ability specifies that you pick a certain unit type to affect, you'd be picking one of the actual unit types listed in the rules (Infantry, Bikes & Jetbikes, Artillery, Jump (+ whatever other unit type), Jet Pack (+ whatever other unit type), monstrous creatures, beasts, cavalry and Flying Monstrous Creatures. An Infantry (character) wouldn't be considered a different unit type than an Infantry model, so in that light a Drone wouldn't inherit the 'character' designation from its owner.

I can see that reasoning. But the Tau FAQ says:

"Pg32 Commander, Unit Type.
Change Unit Type to Infantry (Jet Pack, Character)." [whereas the reference section in the BRB says "In (Ch), Jp"]

Codex, Page 31. Shield Drone. : "Unit Type: as owner."

So once again we're faced with GW being loose with the language. The BRB indicates that the character designation is something in addition to unit type, but the codex shows that it's a part of it. I can see the argument both ways even with regards to fluff. I don't think a shield drone is really a character like a shas'ui or sergeant, but it makes sense that it would intervene or be directed to intervene on the commander's behalf.

It isn't so much needing the character to be a unit type, rather that the drones become the unit type of their owner. Seeing as it doesn't say otherwise, we need to figure out if being a character is a unit type, also the same for independent characters.

One issue is in the back of the rulebook, under type, is where anything being a character is listed.

Furthermore on page 410, at the top under types it lists characters...

 juraigamer wrote:
It isn't so much needing the character to be a unit type, rather that the drones become the unit type of their owner. Seeing as it doesn't say otherwise, we need to figure out if being a character is a unit type, also the same for independent characters.

One issue is in the back of the rulebook, under type, is where anything being a character is listed.

Furthermore on page 410, at the top under types it lists characters...

Agreed, but that is just the summary page. The actual rules text for unit types on page 44 is much more explicit. character designation is something IN ADDITION to its unit type.

Yes I'm well aware, it's just not 100% clear if being a character is a "Type" as some pages say yes, and others say no.

They are his shields he can use them since he is the only one who can use them, and they disapeer if he dies. They can't accept a challenge for him. But its mute just make a body guard fight for him insted with his shield drones. The drones are part of the boss's wargears benefitting him.

Lordy Lordy Lordy

Lungpickle wrote:
They are his shields he can use them since he is the only one who can use them, and they disapeer if he dies. They can't accept a challenge for him. But its mute just make a body guard fight for him insted with his shield drones. The drones are part of the boss's wargears benefitting him.

Lordy Lordy Lordy

Personal opinions aren't rules...

Have you read the rule we are talking about?

Lungpickle wrote:
They are his shields he can use them since he is the only one who can use them, and they disapeer if he dies. They can't accept a challenge for him. But its mute just make a body guard fight for him insted with his shield drones. The drones are part of the boss's wargears benefitting him.

Lordy Lordy Lordy

I don't think he can use them unless they are the closest model to the firing unit. If he is the only model in the open or the closest why other than a LOS roll would it not be him that bites the bullet.