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 Ravenblade666 wrote:
Gand do they start as a Findsman or just a Gand

The book mentions that most Gand who leave Gand are findsmen so the stats reflect that.

Ravenblade666 wrote:Twi'lek, do have a language for their Lekku (head tails) I know from past material they have let them be used like kinda sign language between Twi'leks.

No, it's not a special ability they get but this is a game where you could just throw it in, a la OSR D&D. I know I would give it to you as a GM, no problem.

Ravenblade666 wrote:Droids, what kind of droids, Assassin droids like IG-88, battle droids or iconic droids like the astromech droids.

They're explicitly military/combat droids but they don't come with any of those skills. I think they call them "type 4," which apparently means "bad ass droid" in the Star Wars brand.

FFG forums have a 5 page thread adding Togruta, Duros, Jawas, Ewoks, Gamorreans and more. It seems pretty straightforward. I actually strongly prefer that race is mostly window dressing and not a big optimization path.

You can see my Ithorian and Jawa in that thread in addition to the Bad Batcher I posted above.

Oh yes, this is the stuff:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp?eidm=224&esem=1

Man, that box looks tasty. Twi'lek bounty hunter ftw!

The only thing I'm not fond of is what looks like a focus on maps and character tokens. I can already see FFG selling future adventures with more maps and more tokens, but I feel like having this as an important part of the rules actually hinders people inventing their own stories and campaigns. Hopefully I'm wrong and it just looks that way - the page doesn't really explain if the tokens are just there as an aid (like hastly drawn maps at the table) or whether we're talking miniature combat rules here...

Oh, and it appears someone at FFG may have missed that the Falcon's sensor dish is not standard equipment for the YT-1300.
(granted, anyone could install that upgrade, but I'm guessing someone just said "let's take a ship like Han's" - would've been more characterful if it was a stock YT, or maybe one with a different modification ... [/nitpick])

The beta does not support miniatures-required tactical combat. Also, I don't see that as connected to whether or not people can make their own stories ... I think you got separate points tied up together there, maybe as a result of distaste for games like D&D4E? I often hear people who are critical minature-heavy RPGs say there is "no roleplaying" although I'd be shocked to hear that from you.

And YES that twi'lek looks so hot. I also think the droid looks awesome. Playing pre-made characters can have a real charm to it. Not something I always want to do but spice of life and all that.

Manchu wrote:The beta does not support miniatures-required tactical combat. Also, I don't see that as connected to whether or not people can make their own stories ...

Oh, it wouldn't be impossible, of course - they'd just have to make all those maps or tokens/miniatures themselves or buy them elsewhere, and/or it may not look as fancy as what they got out of the box and what might be included in future "official" adventures.

Glad to hear I was mistaken, though. I agree that these maps and tokens are a cool idea if used just as an optional visual aid.

Manchu wrote:I think you got separate points tied up together there, maybe as a result of distaste for games like D&D4E? I often hear people who are critical minature-heavy RPGs say there is "no roleplaying" although I'd be shocked to hear that from you.

I actually do not like 4E ... but I'd say that has more to do with what I heard/read about its rules. I had lots of fun playing with miniatures in SW Saga Edition!

I guess I'm somewhat torn on the role of miniatures. They help with the visualising, but at the same time they make it more difficult to deviate from what you are provided. Be it location maps, or the looks of your character.
Fortunately, the colleague who GM'd for us had tons of figures, so everyone was able to pick something relatively close to what they had in mind.

Seeing all his minis actually made me want to play a wargame with them ... I eventually ended up purchasing a bunch of Stormtroopers on ebay just to decorate my room with.

Manchu wrote:And YES that twi'lek looks so hot. I also think the droid looks awesome. Playing pre-made characters can have a real charm to it. Not something I always want to do but spice of life and all that.

Mhmm, I dunno. A character I play has to be my character, this includes their background, their stats (as resulting from their background), and their appearance.
Personal preference, tho. I've got a general aversion playing "canon" characters just because I'll always feel limited in what they can and what they cannot do, and that I may not be able to portray them correctly (playing canon characters is a huge responsibility imho, regardless of whether it's the GM or a player).
It obviously wouldn't be as bad with premade characters who consist of nothing but some numbers and a picture, but even then there's some risk that I may not like a piece of their equipment or the clothes they wear...

The only exception to this personal rule was when I volunteered to portray the self-styled pirate queen Leonia Tavira a couple times for a campaign in my group, at first just for a short appearance that involved stuff like a tense meeting with the PCs and trying to make a deal with them. We ended up having so much fun that I basically "adopted" her as an NPC that I got to play a couple times more. Fortunately, being a pirate and just a minor character in the EU whose "current" (relative to our campaign's timeline) status is completely blank, I had some room to maneuver and customise her to what I thought was cool about this character.

So ... okay, maybe I could play a premade character, but I guess it really depends on the first impression I get. I would say it's somewhat unlikely that I like everything about him or her, but I wouldn't rule it out either.

And yeah, the droid fits in nicely with the bunch!

I'll just set quietly while you convince yourself then.

 Lynata wrote:
I would say it's somewhat unlikely that I like everything about him or her

I've been thinking about this one and it strikes me as really odd. Can you give some hypothetical examples? I guess, I get what you mean when there is something fundamental about the character that makes them not interesting to play -- but those are usually what I would call "core" traits and that doesn't sound like what you mean (with your reference to not liking some particular item of clothing they were pictured in).

I guess I am just extremely picky when it comes to a character's traits - any traits, be them personality, background or visual appearance. Even the name. Whenever I develop a character from scratch, I can literally spend weeks looking for a proper name, going through databases and doing countless modifications until I finally get something that inspires me.

When I roleplay a character, I like to immerse myself in them, and this necessitates a certain amount of appeal to me. It's easier when you come up with something all by yourself, but with a premade character, I suppose they must be close to whatever I would've come up with? I'm a stickler for detail, so I spend lots of time fleshing out miniscule and unimportant stuff. Depending on my mood and my existing preferences, I will have a strong tendency to stuff like very specific species, skin/hair/eye colours, profession, equipment and clothing style. The latter even extends into MMOs - you can't believe how much time I spent looking for "appropriate" gear in TOR (and by now, just about all my characters are decked out with customisable/upgradeable equipment for greater consistency).

Sometimes, there are characters from various movies, novels or games that inspire me. When I get tossed a premade character evoking a similar reaction, I suppose I would have little problem using it right away, too.
Of course I could generally play just about anything (I've often helped out playing various NPCs), but the amount of fun I could get out of the experience depends greatly on how I perceive any given character in my head.

We played our first game just before Christmas. Loved it!

I play a Human Colonist (Doctor).

Also, FFG has release the Star Wars Edge of Empires Beginners Game. I guess it's a stripped down version for a quick start campaign?

Also also, they have released a free pdf scenario: Long Arm of the Hutt.

FFG has previewed the corebook. Seems like obligationis a signature mechanic rather than a universal one. Very interesting.

Ah haha here we go:

 Manchu wrote:
Ah haha here we go:

What? a FFG game with special custom dice?

Wonders will never cease, eh?

as a WEGs GM, so far I'm lovin the system. Don't like the custom dice concept (means all players will have to want to buy dice JUST to play star wars, not exactly conducive to sales IMO.) but so far seems to be a great compromise between the old and the D20 system I despised so much. I like how the dice not only determine success or failure, but also if something extra good/bad can happen. This reminds me of the luck dice from the old D6 system. Unfortunately for WEG's that stupid luck die could get rediculously powerful. Here it looks like it will balance out pretty well. And its easy enough my 6yr old can figure out what to roll looking at the pregen characters and seeing that the green dimond dice are what he wants to roll (if he cant count to three, well i simply failed as a father). The difficulty dice sometimes makes me a little happy, as a gm I get to throw "fail" dice into the dice pool and let them choose their own fate from there. but throwing one dice(easy difficulty) into three tells the player they have a good chance of success.

I'm curious as to how much freedom will truly be in the final cut. This will probably be my determining factor of keeping the old WEG system alive or moving on to greener pastures. I've seen discussions on their forums about how the current class/career system really doesn't do much compared to WHFRPG. If it plays fast and loose with character building, even with a class system but allowing for a lot of variation, I will be happy.

Edit: looks like i found a section on their forums where you can use standard dice instead of custom dice in the full version when it releases (will be a section in the book) That will pretty much sell the system for me right there!

I love custom dice. Most RPGers I know actively look for excuses to buy more dice. A pack of custom dice won't break the bank.

Its a mixed bag for my group. Yes they like to buy new dice, but at the same time they like to justify the purchase (yeah im only buying D10s for L5R, but I can use them in WW tabletop or just more for DnD so its ok.) Getting dice that can ONLY be used for star wars means they have to keep track. And yes they will want their own dice, No one wants cheeto hands reaching for the dice pool....

So far I like the dice and how they act, But I'm loving how they are giving us the option, that means my group wont shy away from the action just because the dice look scary to them. We'll see how they react on sunday when I put this on the table for them.

When I think of the conversion chart in the Beta book, I want to say "that's a great short term solution" but it's actually not. Having to translate rolling a handful dice through multiple tables is the sort of the thing that is at its hardest when you first do it. So if anything, using the tables would be better in the long term than the short term. But if there's going to be a long term then there is no reason not to get FFG's dice.

So the conversion table to me seems like an unecessary necessary evil. If you don't include it, people will bitch like crazy about having to buy proprietary dice. Trouble is, they will still bitch about this even if you do have it. And, what's more, because it will be necessarily clunky, that will give them something additional to bitch about. So instead of noticing how cool the mechanic might be, they're going to be reviewing the game on the basis of the clunky conversion system that stands between them and that cool mechanic.

My point is, if the players in your group want to play SW and they can take your word that this is a good system to do it with, then that should be enough to get them to shell out a few bucks on FFG's dice. What this really comes down to, IMO, is that special brand of cynicism we gamers seem to share where we're not going to be gouged by the companies -- bearing in mind that we think we're so smart as we shell out hundred if not thousands of dollars on miniatures, paints, rulebooks, etc, etc.

Not an easy of a sale as one would think. I still have my D6 books (a massive library of them) plus conversions from the D20 (there are a lot of well balanced free sources availible), allowing me to play an era plus access to a crapton of concepts from playing pirates to an entire array of starships and frieghters.

So selling my group on the system based on the rules and dice are merely the starting point. The real question will be how much future support the book will get.

Having the dice conversions in the back of the book allows for some flexibility. If they like the rules but hate the dice, its there for them. If they like the rules and the dice but not ready to go out and buy their own (or contribute to a dice pool) its there. If the conversions are clunky, they will WANT the dice if the system is good. I own the starter box and will be using it to demo this weekend, so they will not suffer "clunky" dice mechanics to start.

The biggest question for me is not the dice, Its how much they love the game. Tabletop games do not suffer age issues all that much and the D6 love is just as much alive in many circles as the D20. Mechanics wont be as much of a problem as how much they will like one system over another. Everything else is a matter of converting forwards and backwards.

I think what you are really selling is not SW but this particular approach to it, which entails dice as much as a rulebook.

If the non-GMs in your group regularly object to buying rulebooks, then it would be hard to expect them to buy dice.

That "GM buys all" dynamic is its own problem, of course.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Paitryn wrote:
If the conversions are clunky, they will WANT the dice if the system is good.

What I'm saying is, it will take a great deal of objectivity to realize the system is good if one is constantly prevented from enjoying it by a clunky conversion.

I'm not sure if I like the abstract custom dice part of it. It seems to make it much harder on the GM to gauge how hard something is when you design it when you have to memorize the probability of custom symbols, especially when some of which show up alongside multiple others on a single face. If this is the mechinic with WHFB, experienced GMs might chime in to assure me, though.

The benefit of standard numbers is that I can quickly and easily compare what the players can do with what I want the difficulty to be. For instance in Savage worlds, with it's 'exploding' dice mechanism, if it's going to take beating an "8" to hit a main bad guy, and most of my players are rolling D6 for their fighting or shooting rolls, they are first going to have to roll a "6" just to even have a chance of rolling the next die as a 3+ to hit the guy, and that may be too tough for them.

Seems like this is just a gimmick, when some sort of normal die system could have sufficed.

It's easy. Some dice represent having a better chance to do something. Some dice represent having a slimmer chance to do that thing. If you want the chance to be slimmer, add a die from the second category. I understand that you're saying that you want to know exactly how much harder adding that die will make things. That's not such a hard question, considering it is only one die. The other dice don't directly bear on the success/failure axis so it's not really a matter of using a bunch of dice to generate one axis of result -- which is the same confusion others had earlier ITT. I'd say, it's best to read up on the system before criticizing it -- make sure that your criticisms apply.

As to whether something simpler could have been done -- sure! That's just the same as asking whether simpler resolution mechanisms exist. If it exists, all other things being equal, it could have been applied to this product -- but at the expense of some of the interesting things that can't be done with those simpler systems. And that's the key: these dice do something different. Whether it is different enough, or enjoyable enough, is a separate matter.

Well thanks to Manchu and others continuing to push this game with good info and notes on the system, it looks like I'll be tracking down the beginners game.

Aura and myself have decided to give it a go, partially to test the new FFG dice system for ourselves and to head back to a Star Wars RPG.

 Poison wrote:
It'd have to be amazingly good to beat SAGA for me.

It's a piece of gak compared to SAGAS. Don't waste your time with this. It's basically a crappy version of Dark Heresy (Which is crappy) ported to Star Wars.

 IdentifyZero wrote:
basically a crappy version of Dark Heresy

It's nothing at all like Dark Heresy. And it's nothing like Saga Edition. DH is a percentile-based system. Saga is based on d20. This game is a "multi-axis" result game, like WFRP 3E.

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
Aura and myself have decided to give it a go

Please do post your thoughts and experiences, MDS!

 Manchu wrote:

 IdentifyZero wrote:
basically a crappy version of Dark Heresy

It's nothing at all like Dark Heresy. And it's nothing like Saga Edition. DH is a percentile-based system. Saga is based on d20. This game is a "multi-axis" result game, like WFRP 3E.

 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:
Aura and myself have decided to give it a go

Please do post your thoughts and experiences, MDS!

You misunderstood what I meant. I am saying FFG makes garbage RPGs. Ergo, it is a crappy version of Dark Heresy and Dark Heresy is gak. FFG should avoid RPGs.

I play a lot of RPGs and I have to say I really like what FFG has done with the GW license and, so far, with the SW license.

 IdentifyZero wrote:
I am saying FFG makes garbage RPGs.

Why do you think this?

 Manchu wrote:
Please do post your thoughts and experiences, MDS!

Oh aye, will have a game once it gets here and share my thoughts, I am hoping it turns out to be good, if it is Warhammer 3rd might become a consideration, just not willing to spend £80 to try a system I might hate.

The fact its Star Wars is just a cherry on top.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 IdentifyZero wrote:
I am saying FFG makes garbage RPGs.

Why do you think this?

I do not think this, I know this. I own a copy of Edge of the Empire, or rather I did. I gave it away. I'll be sticking my SAGAS books. Hell, WEG D6 is better then this piece of gak.