Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

After a recent string of defeats, me and my friends sat down to discuss how I could better use my orks.
To start off with, let me tell you what my list generally contains:
1 Warboss, MA
5 Nobs, EA, 1 Pk 4 BC
58 standard slugga boyz, two groups of 29 with a nob in each.
20 Lootas in two groups of 10
3 Kannons.

My main issues is making combat. Seeing as we have been reemed hard by 6th, I am finding it harder and harder to make it to my enemy.

We came up with two old school approachs:

1) Gretchin meat shield running infront of the boys. The main draw back I see with this idea is the random dice rolls for distance. It used to be dandy when you knew the Boyz and Gretchin would be going at the same pace, but now, a bad roll on the Gretchin run could see the boyz moving very little each turn.

2) Trukks - The main issue I have hear is the carrying capacity of trukks. Boyz need to move in numbers, and a trukk with 12 boyz doesn't scream numbers to me. The only way I could really use it is if it was used as a distraction for the foot slogging boys.

Help is very much needed!

My buddy who plays orks very well has a
Big Mek
3 trukks with nobs and various weapons
large squad of boys foot slogging it
The premise behind this is focous on trukks to stop nobs which may fail due to the force field from the Mek and if you do that the boys get there in #'s or vice versa and the Nobs get there in #'s
it kinda ruins ur previous list in a way.
sometimes for poops and giggles he might throw some mega nobz in there

Foot slogging boys is really hard.
Firstly they need a kff. As without cover they will die too quickly.
Secondly they really want shoota boyz, if you can not run over in time you may as try to go slower and shoot.
Never foot slog with mega armour.
Also I wouldn't foot slog nobs, they are a elite choice which the enemy will able to skirt around if they are walking.
Also nobs are better value for points with some of their upgrades. Pain boy and cyborg bodies are important.
Kannons are really good with ammo runt, crew and runtherd.
If you have a shooty element I would bring an ADL to hide units behind, it is really long you can fit them all behind it.

Taking trukks is also an option with your gunline. They work well with slugga boys. They can work well with having a gunline, as trukks can pick out weak parts of the enemy and concentrate on them.

The other units I like with a gunline are wazdakka and bikers or nob bikers. They are hardy and are good at grabbing objectives, which is all you want with a gunline.

The final point I would have is you have a gunline, if you realised or not. Make it more shooty.

Buy a Big Mek with a KFF.

The SAP Warboss isn't ideal for footslogging; he can't run.

You don't need a KFF to footslog, you just need to do it with some intellegence.

A mega armor boss is even better this edition since you don't have to roll for SAP, while he can't run it's ok, though honestly he could use a battlewagon.

If you really want to, simply take your warboss and nobs and put them on bikes, that's probably the best solution, though you would need more models.

A trukk is bad unless you're running around shooting from it, it's not a good assault item against anything that can hold it's own in melee, but dropping 11 boyz and a nob next to some nercons, tau or guardsmen works.

Yeah, 6th ed crucified foot hordes - especially the choppy variety. Ork units with a KFF have avoided a big chunk of the problems, so I'd definitely start there. It's one of the very few ways you can still get by-unit cover in the game. Take advantage of this.

6th ed also really hurt close combat, so if you were running a close combat foot horde, you're doubly screwed. Perhaps start by proxying those sluggas as shootas?

Otherwise, you're going to need to find some way to ACTUALLY keep your boyz alive longer than five seconds. Perhaps now might be the time to invest in some battlewagons.

Alright man i noticed a few things that you could improve before discussion of 6th edition rules even come into play. They are as follows:

- On probability alone, shoota boys are far better that slugga boys. With their assault weapons the volume of fire makes them able to fire a hail of bolter shots that is actually pretty effective from what i have seen. And it makes your foot slogging unit able to inflict casualties earlier in the game and in 2 phases as opposed to one. Flexibility for the win.

-The warboss could have way more effective war gear on account of how your army works. As it is it would seem as thought, due to she slow and purposeful rule from MA, that he is just slowing your HtH army down. Id give him a power claw and an attack squig and let my nobs soak up the wounds he would take. Ork meat shield for the win.

As for some new adaptation. I agree with your thoughts on the gretchin strat. I just cant see it working. One thought is, What used to be super effective for me, is placing your nobs and Warboss on bike. A toughness 6 boss with a cover save and strength ten will utterly destroy everything. Also, the unit will inflict so much fear that it will draw volumes of fire from your slogging force and they are a unit that can take it. Its a huge tactical distraction. With all your fire support you should be able to eliminate large threats to them with your lootas and kannons and just let them wreak havoc.

Is there anything you are opposed to as far as army comp? Or fluff you are trying to follow? Because that would help narrow down what you are looking for! Anyway i hope i helped some. And let me know what you come up with.

juraigamer wrote:You don't need a KFF to footslog, you just need to do it with some intellegence.

That is quite insulting and also incorrect. Focus fire, only orks without cover get hit and die. There will be orks without cover.
Loosing a third less models is needed. You lose far too many models as it is so losing cover is just a killer blow.

If they want to focus fire some boys and only kill the ones outside of cover, that's their choice.

"You" may need a KFF to footslog, but a real ork player just realizes 50%+ of his boyz aren't going to make it to the enemy and instead of going "WAAA, get KFF" you simply use fast items, like bikes, SAG fire support, kans and other fun stuff to help make sure you get to crumping range.

Stick to cover, run and keep moving, use LOS blocking terrain to your advantage, block with other models like Kans, it's not hard, for some at least.

 juraigamer wrote:
If they want to focus fire some boys and only kill the ones outside of cover, that's their choice.

"You" may need a KFF to footslog, but a real ork player just realizes 50%+ of his boyz aren't going to make it to the enemy and instead of going "WAAA, get KFF" you simply use fast items, like bikes, SAG fire support, kans and other fun stuff to help make sure you get to crumping range.

Stick to cover, run and keep moving, use LOS blocking terrain to your advantage, block with other models like Kans, it's not hard, for some at least.

Or you could use all of those things AND a KFF Mek and make it to your opponent with 33% more Orks than you would have otherwise. Playing with a KFF Mek doesn't mean you play stupidly because of it... it's additional protection.

I can't recall exactly what their rules are, but 6th Edition made Flyers king and Orks have a few flyers now, you may want to check them out. If nothing else, they will give your enemy something else to worry about.

My game last night taught me, that even though the KFF isnt nearly as needed as it once was, if your slogging it, you should still take one. I faced a serious gunline of Space Marines @1000pts. If I had taken a cheapO KFF then I would of definitely gotten to the lines when I was hoping to, instead of being shot to ribbons.

I'm really very surprised that no-one's really talked to great detail about Battewagons, since they're pretty much your solution.

Buying 3 Battlewagons, although it'd set you back a bit, would allow your Boyz to get into combat very quickly. Although many Vehicles have got weaker in 6th, Battewagons are arguably stronger. The VDC is nicer, meaning a lucky pen is less likely to destroy you. Generally, you'll be able to get most Battlewagons amongst the midst of the enemy. Of course, you'll be taking a KFF Mek or two in one of your Boyz Units to grant your Battlewagon those cover saves. Also, Meks can now repair Hull Points with their Mek's Tools, meaning your Battlewagons will last longer.

As for your Nobz, you could get a Trukk for them. Either that or just use two Boyz in Wagons and stick the Nobz in the third.

While I've no Ork playing experiance. I've had a few experiances with footslogging guardmens across the board. General tips.

1) The ends justify the means. As my brothers Chaos force has done to me many times. He can take horrendous losses closing the gap between the deployment lines, but it only takes a handful to get through to my line and they will wreck havok. Expect heavy losses, but limit them where possible.

2) Move together, forward units get pick on first.

3) Odd objects attract fire. Avoid taking stand alone upgrades. If you want upgrades, give a few squads the same upgrade. A tactical squad, even though out of range, with a melta is a better target than a tactical squad, out of range, without one.

4) Cover is your friend but it must not slow you down. If you have two units hanging back becuase difficult terrain slowed them down, then the enemies guns have two less targets. Target saturation been a priority here.

5) Consider bringing some cover. A nice lump of metal on tracks does the job nicely.

6) Consider breaking rule 2 with a fast unit to act as bait. Keeping the enemies guns busy for a turn or two while the rest of your army plods on forward can be invaluable.

7) Spam. Don't mix heavy and light units too much or your opponant will be making better use of their guns. If you go all light infantry, those melta's and lascannons will be a bit of a waste. Go heavy and most of their anti-infantry guns will struggle to knock you down. By taking a single armor value or troops with the same saves, you can overwhelm them easier.

I have been playing a lot of games lately, changing my close combat Ork style over to shooty Orks. Last game I played I didn't have a powerKlaw in my entire army (Ork Heresy).

I have to admit our volume of fire is something to be feared.

The advice I'd like to contribute:
*Shootas Boyz w/ Rokkits are damn near mandatory.
*A couple of units of 15 Lootas are usefull against 99% of whatever your opponent can bring.
*Big Mek KFF is Mandatory for foot slogging.
*1 unit of 3 Kannons is good, 3 units of 3 makes your opponents wet themselves.

My apologies as I screwed up in my original post. I should have added two things:
1) I dropped my painboy and cybork armour in favour of fitting in a dakka jet.
2) Currently playing a campaign and atm I am limited to 1100pts ,not including the points my warboss occupies.

I am getting some good ideas from here. Definitely want to include my kannons and .bw, but struggling with pt coast

 wtwlf123 wrote:
Buy a Big Mek with a KFF.

The SAP Warboss isn't ideal for footslogging; he can't run.

I disagree.

Put your MA warboss in the front of your boyz and let him soak up all the fire. That 2+ armor save is extremely sturdy. If your opponent gets smart and starts using ap 2 weapons you can just allocate your wounds with LoS.

You are right he can't run but rest of his unit can (slowest member of the unit does not dictate movement speed of the whole unit as long as they stay in coherence) and at best you might want to run a turn or two because you can't assault after running.

 The Shadow wrote:
I'm really very surprised that no-one's really talked to great detail about Battewagons, since they're pretty much your solution.

Buying 3 Battlewagons, although it'd set you back a bit, would allow your Boyz to get into combat very quickly. Although many Vehicles have got weaker in 6th, Battewagons are arguably stronger. The VDC is nicer, meaning a lucky pen is less likely to destroy you. Generally, you'll be able to get most Battlewagons amongst the midst of the enemy. Of course, you'll be taking a KFF Mek or two in one of your Boyz Units to grant your Battlewagon those cover saves. Also, Meks can now repair Hull Points with their Mek's Tools, meaning your Battlewagons will last longer.

As for your Nobz, you could get a Trukk for them. Either that or just use two Boyz in Wagons and stick the Nobz in the third.

I cant believe that i didnt think of this. I agree whole heartedly.

corey3977 wrote:
1) I dropped my painboy and cybork armour in favour of fitting in a dakka jet.

That painboy is (in my experience) nigh mandatory for a nobz squad. I like running a full unit of nobz+warboss (and of course painboy) in a trukk into whatever squad happens to closest/highest value. They WILL destroy it if they get there, especially if you've thrown in some power klaws (NO POWER KLAWS IS HERESY OF THE WORST KIND). If they don't, then your opponent has probably aimed a large part of his guns at them which means your boyz are one turn closer with far less wounds.

And I agree with using shoota boyz instead of slugga boyz. It's far more effective in 6th. More dakka is almost always the right choice.

All that being said, I love my dakkajet too

From the recieving end of an ork foot list I would suggest taking a decent amount of nobs with your boss, as an SM player its fairly evil when the other player does this, I have a choice between knocking down the hard to kill nobs while the horde advances or taking my time to slaughter a horde of boyz whilst the nobs advance unscathed.

Your problem is that your whole army is slow and can be killed by basic weapons! Juragaimer is on the right track - you need some 'ard stuff to hide in/behind and some speed freaks to throw into the enemies face. Doesn't really matter what, but at the moment your enemy can just sit back and choose his targets as he pleases. If I was you I would get a unit of deffkoptaz with rokkitz and a buzz saw, a trukk for your nobz/boss, and a battlewagon for some of the foot boyz. Hide the trukk behind the wagon if you can, throw all this at him at once and he will be forced to make hard choices instead of just rolling buckets of dice at you.

I like the idea of nobs on bikes:
- Hammer of Wrath hit at I10
- Toughness 5 makes them hard to wound
- 4+ Cover Save (Exhaust Cloud)
- Multi wound
- Fast Attack = 12 inch move to get in close quickly, and they can fire their dakkaguns because they are relentless
- S5 on the charge (S7 with a big choppa, which can crack some tanks)
They're just a great unit!

I run with Shoota boys myself, 20+ in a squad, with a Big Mek with a Kustom Force Field in the center so my mob gets the cover save. It's difficult to get everyone in cover and still space out far enough to avoid template weapons, but this definately helps.

If points are an issue, I tend to throw in a couple of Deffkoptas in 1 man suicide squads - Their job is to draw fire away from my boys plodding up the table.

I haven't run with a flyer yet so I can't comment on those - but Battlewagons are quite good at taking fire.

Also perhaps try small squad of Burna Boys (say 5) in said Battlewagon, or a Looted Wagon. Their flamers class as power weapons during an assult as well. Oh, and they cause D3 wounds on an a unit assulting your boyz.

My 2 cents

 illuknisaa wrote:

 wtwlf123 wrote:
The SAP Warboss isn't ideal for footslogging; he can't run.

You are right he can't run but rest of his unit can (slowest member of the unit does not dictate movement speed of the whole unit as long as they stay in coherence) and at best you might want to run a turn or two because you can't assault after running.

Incorrect illuknisaa: Pg 42, SLOW AND PURPOSEFUL: 'A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule cannot Run,'

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:

 illuknisaa wrote:

 wtwlf123 wrote:
The SAP Warboss isn't ideal for footslogging; he can't run.

You are right he can't run but rest of his unit can (slowest member of the unit does not dictate movement speed of the whole unit as long as they stay in coherence) and at best you might want to run a turn or two because you can't assault after running.

Incorrect illuknisaa: Pg 42, SLOW AND PURPOSEFUL: 'A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule cannot Run,'

I stand corrected but that doesn't still change the fact that there is little reason to run.

 illuknisaa wrote:
I stand corrected but that doesn't still change the fact that there is little reason to run.

You mean besides potentially doubling your movement? Or getting the extra few inches you need to get into cover? (which admittedly is an unlikely situation with big bands of boyz). If you're toting shootas (which I think you should be in 6th) then you're not in range first turn anyway. Why not run? There's no reason not to unless it's putting you out of cover, or putting you in range of the enemy.

 illuknisaa wrote:

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:

 illuknisaa wrote:

 wtwlf123 wrote:
The SAP Warboss isn't ideal for footslogging; he can't run.

You are right he can't run but rest of his unit can (slowest member of the unit does not dictate movement speed of the whole unit as long as they stay in coherence) and at best you might want to run a turn or two because you can't assault after running.

Incorrect illuknisaa: Pg 42, SLOW AND PURPOSEFUL: 'A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule cannot Run,'

I stand corrected but that doesn't still change the fact that there is little reason to run.

What? Footslogging lists have every reason to run.

Space marines line up a rhino to block line of sight to warboss. Then they start shooting.
Actually I do not mind putting bolter wounds on a warboss. He will die eventually. (18 bolter wounds on average, which isn't so many.)

 wtwlf123 wrote:

What? Footslogging lists have every reason to run.

Why run when you can dakka?

 Jihallah wrote:

 wtwlf123 wrote:

What? Footslogging lists have every reason to run.

Why run when you can dakka?

That depends on your composition. And your available targets. Plus you may be out of range. You're pretty much always gonna want to run on T1 after the move.

 wtwlf123 wrote:

 Jihallah wrote:

 wtwlf123 wrote:

What? Footslogging lists have every reason to run.

Why run when you can dakka?

That depends on your composition. And your available targets. Plus you may be out of range. You're pretty much always gonna want to run on T1 after the move.

Exactly. So your going to run on turn 1, but most games are going to be dakkadakkadakkadakkadakka! after turn one. Unless your opponent keeps backing away constantly. Because they don't feel like winning. Y'know, objectives and gak.