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The PC option for terminators sounds cool, but I can't imagine many people willingly trading the firepower of two MLs for one PC.

The Siege unit sounds very interesting to me. I wish we knew if it was a new unit type or some sort of TFC squad.

 Kanluwen wrote:

The Dark Angels Scouts have always had close ties to the Ravenwing, and why the LSS was first given to the Codex Chapters rather than Dark Angels is a mystery to me.

That's just the most GW thing honestly. Codex: Space Marines getting the LSS and what are essentially Mortis pattern dreadnoughts, bikes as Troops with a captain on bike, and Space Wolves getting Terminators as Troops just follows the typical process of DA ideas getting co-opted by other Marine books. I don't recall the ties to the Ravenwing with scouts in the Dark Angels though, but I haven't read up on the boys in green in a while.

 ph34r wrote:

The Siege unit sounds very interesting to me. I wish we knew if it was a new unit type or some sort of TFC squad.

It sounds like Stickmonkey just repurposed the occasional recurring rumor of a TFC kit that can also build another artillery price.

 Brother SRM wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

The Dark Angels Scouts have always had close ties to the Ravenwing, and why the LSS was first given to the Codex Chapters rather than Dark Angels is a mystery to me.

That's just the most GW thing honestly. Codex: Space Marines getting the LSS and what are essentially Mortis pattern dreadnoughts, bikes as Troops with a captain on bike, and Space Wolves getting Terminators as Troops just follows the typical process of DA ideas getting co-opted by other Marine books. I don't recall the ties to the Ravenwing with scouts in the Dark Angels though, but I haven't read up on the boys in green in a while.

"Purging of Kadillus" again it most recently, outside of that it's always been kind of/sort of hinted at.

But as to the GW thing...I blame Alessio.

I haven't read Purging of Kadillus, but I'll put it on my ever-growing list of books I want to read

Kan you should actually make a list of all the important books a DA enthusiast ought to have read.

I read like a book a year (excluding gaming material). BL stuff never makes it to that list.

 Brother SRM wrote:
Those are also sergeants. Scout sergeants are veterans just as much as any tactical Marine sergeant is a veteran.

Yes those three example were sergeants, I was thinking that as I was driving off to lunch. My "exceptions to the norm" comment hath been bolstered.

 Kanluwen wrote:
And if you'll recall, Black Library recently made a point of making it very clear ("Purging of Kadillus") that by the time a Scout is getting ready to "graduate" that he is at least as experienced as any veteran Guardsman.

Yeah but veteran guardsman die by the droves!! Doesn't that line go "Give me a 1000 (Guards)men, or give me 1 Space Marine!! No no, not that scout over there! A fully fledged battle brother in the correct equipment!!" ?

"Purging of Kadillus", "Fallen Angels", and "Descent of Angels" are pretty much the big ones right now.

Along with the short story "Savage Weapons" from the "Age of Darkness" anthology.

Inner Circle Squad? Might as well just give GW my credit card right now >_<

Devastators can upgrade to take flakk missiles at +5 points per model, replaces Krak and Frag options.

Wow, making them a waste of points if facing an army with no flyers. Who will ever take devs in a tourney if they can either shoot normally or shoot at flyers but not have both options during the game.

A squad of chaplains sounds very cool. Inner Circle Chaplains gunslinging. NICE!!!!

Motograter wrote:
A squad of chaplains sounds very cool. Inner Circle Chaplains gunslinging. NICE!!!!

One of the reasons I don't see this as an actual thing is because a bunch of dudes with two pistols is frankly kind of useless. Oh no, watch out, this dude has two bolt pistols. Quake with fear, mortals. While it's thematically cool (and there are actually rules to use two pistols now) it doesn't really serve a purpose in-game.

 Brother SRM wrote:

Motograter wrote:
A squad of chaplains sounds very cool. Inner Circle Chaplains gunslinging. NICE!!!!

One of the reasons I don't see this as an actual thing is because a bunch of dudes with two pistols is frankly kind of useless. Oh no, watch out, this dude has two bolt pistols. Quake with fear, mortals. While it's thematically cool (and there are actually rules to use two pistols now) it doesn't really serve a purpose in-game.

Cypher. Its a part of the Dark Angels, at least from way back then but I am old. To be fair also I like gunslingers so if this is true i`ll be happy. My vets all have twin had flamers. Its more wishful thinking on my part but until the codex comes out who knows what wil happen. Could be the best thing since sliced bread

I've loved the idea of dual pistols, not to mention the look of them since the Cypher model (well, Seraphim before that I suppose). Unfortunately, I just don't see much use for it in a game either. Although, with all the seeming focus on Plasma, Gunslinging Plasma Pistols does sound very glorious, or even Plasma Pistol/Bolt Pistols as long as it's not just on one model in a squad.

Motograter wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:

Motograter wrote:
A squad of chaplains sounds very cool. Inner Circle Chaplains gunslinging. NICE!!!!

One of the reasons I don't see this as an actual thing is because a bunch of dudes with two pistols is frankly kind of useless. Oh no, watch out, this dude has two bolt pistols. Quake with fear, mortals. While it's thematically cool (and there are actually rules to use two pistols now) it doesn't really serve a purpose in-game.

Cypher. Its a part of the Dark Angels, at least from way back then but I am old. To be fair also I like gunslingers so if this is true i`ll be happy. My vets all have twin had flamers. Its more wishful thinking on my part but until the codex comes out who knows what wil happen. Could be the best thing since sliced bread

Cypher is one--and the only one--who has had twin pistols.
It's not part of the Dark Angels, it's part of Cypher.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Motograter wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:

Motograter wrote:
A squad of chaplains sounds very cool. Inner Circle Chaplains gunslinging. NICE!!!!

One of the reasons I don't see this as an actual thing is because a bunch of dudes with two pistols is frankly kind of useless. Oh no, watch out, this dude has two bolt pistols. Quake with fear, mortals. While it's thematically cool (and there are actually rules to use two pistols now) it doesn't really serve a purpose in-game.

Cypher. Its a part of the Dark Angels, at least from way back then but I am old. To be fair also I like gunslingers so if this is true i`ll be happy. My vets all have twin had flamers. Its more wishful thinking on my part but until the codex comes out who knows what wil happen. Could be the best thing since sliced bread

Cypher is one--and the only one--who has had twin pistols.
It's not part of the Dark Angels, it's part of Cypher.

Yeah but if you're a fan of dual Xs then more power to ya. I know I've got a few dual Xs in my assault squads. A few dual BPs and a dual Plasma guy....I mean if chainswords are nothing more than CCWs (like in 4/5th) then why not add a little flavah to your figs. Rule of cool keeps all of those cookie cutter marine comments away.

 Brother SRM wrote:

Motograter wrote:
A squad of chaplains sounds very cool. Inner Circle Chaplains gunslinging. NICE!!!!

One of the reasons I don't see this as an actual thing is because a bunch of dudes with two pistols is frankly kind of useless. Oh no, watch out, this dude has two bolt pistols. Quake with fear, mortals. While it's thematically cool (and there are actually rules to use two pistols now) it doesn't really serve a purpose in-game.

I guarantee that they will have special rules/equipment to make up for the rather lacklustre pistol rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Cypher is one--and the only one--who has had twin pistols.
It's not part of the Dark Angels, it's part of Cypher.

Ever? Sternguard never existed, right up until they always had.

Palindrome wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:

Motograter wrote:
A squad of chaplains sounds very cool. Inner Circle Chaplains gunslinging. NICE!!!!

One of the reasons I don't see this as an actual thing is because a bunch of dudes with two pistols is frankly kind of useless. Oh no, watch out, this dude has two bolt pistols. Quake with fear, mortals. While it's thematically cool (and there are actually rules to use two pistols now) it doesn't really serve a purpose in-game.

I guarantee that they will have special rules/equipment to make up for the rather lacklustre pistol rules.

I pretty much guarantee you that they are not going to happen.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Cypher is one--and the only one--who has had twin pistols.
It's not part of the Dark Angels, it's part of Cypher.

Ever? Sternguard never existed, right up until they always had.

There's a huge difference between Sternguard and Vanguard--which, face facts here, are renamed First Company Veterans--and what you are suggesting.

 ph34r wrote:
The PC option for terminators sounds cool, but I can't imagine many people willingly trading the firepower of two MLs for one PC.

The Siege unit sounds very interesting to me. I wish we knew if it was a new unit type or some sort of TFC squad.

[Waves Hand]
Mostly for the Coolness Factor and I Love Plasma Weapons!

[Waves Hand]
Mostly for the Coolness Factor and I Love Plasma Weapons!

That would be so unbalanced vs other "wing" armies that it´s not even funny.
Dont think the PC option will go through.

I agree with the PC sounding a bit odd for Terminators, but then I had a thought. It is being called a plasma cannon, most likely, because the person who relayed the info simply saw a big chunky plasma weapon on the DW sprue (if the rumour is legit of course). But that doesn't mean it is a plasma cannon, it just looks like a plasma weapon.

Now, look at the WD spine art (or the interior piece in the BGB that matches it). See that dual-barrelled monstrosity being toted around? Back in 2nd Edition that was called a Plasma Blaster and you want to know what units it was restricted to? Terminators! So obviously GW have brought back the Plasma Blaster (in the art I mean, not talking about my wacky theoretical one). So what if that plasma weapon on the DW sprue (if it exists) isn't actually a PC but is a Plasma Blaster? If it is actually there and not a wishlist then this seems like a far more likely thought then allowing a plasma cannon out of nowhere.

I figure GW have already kind of tipped their hat to PBs being a thing again with that piece of art putting one front and centre (and making sure it couldn't be mistaken for a run-of-the-mill combi-weapon). So if there is a plasma weapon on the DW sprue I think the possibility of it actually being a plasma blaster is a pretty good shot. It already has precedence in older fluff as a terminator weapon (though it was introduced in the UM book as something available to all marines, including SW/BA/DA) so it wouldn't be a huge stretch to give it to the, apparently, plasma-happy Dark Angels.

Just a random hunch I got, but I figured I would share it.

Given how much DA love plasma, could there be a chance the new DW termies will be able to wield plasma cannons?

 Ronin_eX wrote:
I agree with the PC sounding a bit odd for Terminators, but then I had a thought. It is being called a plasma cannon, most likely, because the person who relayed the info simply saw a big chunky plasma weapon on the DW sprue (if the rumour is legit of course). But that doesn't mean it is a plasma cannon, it just looks like a plasma weapon.

Now, look at the WD spine art (or the interior piece in the BGB that matches it). See that dual-barrelled monstrosity being toted around? Back in 2nd Edition that was called a Plasma Blaster and you want to know what units it was restricted to? Terminators! So obviously GW have brought back the Plasma Blaster (in the art I mean, not talking about my wacky theoretical one). So what if that plasma weapon on the DW sprue (if it exists) isn't actually a PC but is a Plasma Blaster? If it is actually there and not a wishlist then this seems like a far more likely thought then allowing a plasma cannon out of nowhere.

I figure GW have already kind of tipped their hat to PBs being a thing again with that piece of art putting one front and centre (and making sure it couldn't be mistaken for a run-of-the-mill combi-weapon). So if there is a plasma weapon on the DW sprue I think the possibility of it actually being a plasma blaster is a pretty good shot. It already has precedence in older fluff as a terminator weapon (though it was introduced in the UM book as something available to all marines, including SW/BA/DA) so it wouldn't be a huge stretch to give it to the, apparently, plasma-happy Dark Angels.

Just a random hunch I got, but I figured I would share it.

Sounds awesome, but what does a plasma blaster actually do? Is it plasma gun with more shots? Twin-linked?

A Plasma Blaster was the Storm Bolter version of the Plasma Gun.

 Kanluwen wrote:

There's a huge difference between Sternguard and Vanguard--which, face facts here, are renamed First Company Veterans--and what you are suggesting.

Actually I am saying that there are units which don't exist and have never existed until such time as they are introduced and then they have then always existed. I would have thought that would have been obvious.

Stating that unit X will not happen as it currently doesn't exist or isn't currently mentioned means nothing in terms of 40K.

Palindrome wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

There's a huge difference between Sternguard and Vanguard--which, face facts here, are renamed First Company Veterans--and what you are suggesting.

Actually I am saying that there are units which don't exist and have never existed until such time as they are introduced and then they have then always existed. I would have thought that would have been obvious.

Stating that unit X will not happen as it currently doesn't exist or isn't currently mentioned means nothing in terms of 40K.

Except what you used as an example did exist, just were not fleshed out to the point they are now in terms of rules, models, or fluff.

I can almost guarantee you that "Gunslingers" are never going to exist in the way that you lot think they are, with the dual pistols.

Why? Because it's Cypher's bag. It has nothing to do with the Dark Angels, it has nothing to do with the Fallen, it has nothing to do with anything beyond Cypher.

Currently, DA Vet squads can be armed with dual pistols.

No Kan. They didn't exist. There were Veteran Squads that were just Tacticals (and BA's got Assault Marines). That's all they ever were. Through 4 editions of the game. Just like Storms didn't exist. Just like Redeemers didn't exist. Just like Purifiers, and Deathmarks, and Interceptors and Thunderfire Cannons and... so on and so forth.

Just because it doesn't exist now is no reason why it can't exist later. The fluff services the selling of new kits. It always has and always will work that why.

To deny that is to commit a form of intentional self delusion.

I really dont understand why people think that it wishlisting to suggest that there might be some DW specific termie kits and then go on about how that because BA didnt get BA specific termi kits DA will not get it. BA termies are just like codex termies so there is 0 need for a specific kit. SW termies are not "codex" termies and they recived a kit so I would say it infact safe to assume that DA will get a specific termi kit. Terminators are a rather integral part of DAs, even more so than Wolf Guard terminators.

tedurur wrote:
I really dont understand why people think that it wishlisting to suggest that there might be some DW specific termie kits and then go on about how that because BA didnt get BA specific termi kits DA will not get it. BA termies are just like codex termies so there is 0 need for a specific kit. SW termies are not "codex" termies and they recived a kit so I would say it infact safe to assume that DA will get a specific termi kit. Terminators are a rather integral part of DAs, even more so than Wolf Guard terminators.

To be fair, DW terminators are just like normal terminators too. the only difference being the mixed assault/tactical units. And I wouldn't think GW would do something to stop us from needing 2 kits to make 1 unit unless they needed to recut the sprues to combine the kits (which is possible since shelf space is limited). But to be fair, there wasn't much making SW terminators unique either that couldn't be covered by 2 boxes.

Nvs wrote:


To be fair, DW terminators are just like normal terminators too. the only difference being the mixed assault/tactical units. And I wouldn't think GW would do something to stop us from needing 2 kits to make 1 unit unless they needed to recut the sprues to combine the kits (which is possible since shelf space is limited). But to be fair, there wasn't much making SW terminators unique either that couldn't be covered by 2 boxes.

From a wargear perspective you are correct. But from an aesthetic perspective both SW and DA terminators are unique. Space Wolves because they are vikings. DA because they incorporate a lot of robes and feathers. They may be armed like every other terminator but they do not LOOK like every other terminator.

tedurur wrote:
I really dont understand why people think that it wishlisting to suggest that there might be some DW specific termie kits and then go on about how that because BA didnt get BA specific termi kits DA will not get it. BA termies are just like codex termies so there is 0 need for a specific kit. SW termies are not "codex" termies and they recived a kit so I would say it infact safe to assume that DA will get a specific termi kit. Terminators are a rather integral part of DAs, even more so than Wolf Guard terminators.

No Blood Angels did not get Terminator Kits, but they got Sanguinary Guard and Death Company kits. Stuff that Blood Angels are known for. Just like Space Wolves and Grey Knight got a Powered Armor and Terminator Kits, stuff they are known for.

Dark Angels are known for two things, Deathwing and Ravenwing, so by logic [there’s that dirty word again] the two kits should be Terminators and Bikes. Now I have not seen anything about a new bike kit so I don’t believe there is one of those coming up, besides the Ravenwing Box kit sill is good. So I am thinking/wishing for Deathwing and Veteran kits.