Dark Angels Rumors thread: Update 11/25

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**Ralis**

I love the idea of having a Belial model, that sounds awesome.

As far as the rest of it goes. *shrugs* It is what it is. Doesn't matter what we end up getting there will be as many people that don't like it as people that do.

The thing I want to see the most, is that there is a unique feel to the chapter, like they did with Blood Angels, instead of just Codex: Space Marines 6th ed (DA fluff)

**Yojiro**

Praise the Emperor and brace yourselves for the Dark Cheese is inbound!

**Nvs**

While I'm much more excited than I was as I was really worried that the DA wouldn't feel the same with subpar terminators and bikers compared to SW/GK, I'm now concerned that DA may once again be nothing more than their wings.

Hopefully there's a lot more we haven't heard to make the green side of the army just as viable as the black and white.

**TedNugent**

S5 Assault 6 AP3? Are you kidding? That can't be real.

**pretre**

TedNugent wrote:
6th contained a significant quantity of nerfs against GK.

Or GK and Necrons were designed for 6th...

**Kanluwen**

pretre wrote:
TedNugent wrote:
6th contained a significant quantity of nerfs against GK.

Or GK and Necrons were designed for 6th...

Mind...blown...

**pretre**

Just read through these and I'm getting kind of nervous. Stick has been reliable but some of this stuff is just waaay out there. It reminds me of his early (inaccurate) predictions of Anointed armor for all GK's, etc.

Updated on the tracker either way.

**captain collius**

ellis_esquire wrote:
There are no lions on caliban . *ducks*

LOL
not anymore anyway

I like these rumors I'll just have to bring some crackers to game then. Also ther is no way it will be a permanent 2++ it will probably be similar to the warding stave.

**VardenV2**

If these rumors are true I will be very upset due to the main fact that all of my friends will hate me :/ Some of these are utterly absurd. Some make a lot of sense.

I too am worried that it will once again become Codex: Deathwing. Especially now that terminators are so good, there really seems like no reason to NOT use DW as your troops. Luckily they are my favorite unit in the DA fluff etc but still... i like my PA guys too. If nothing else I'll keep my BT allies for a little less TDA overload.

-VardenV2

**Kroothawk**

Interesting that Stickmonkey didn't post his latest set of DA rumours on Warseer but seems to PM them to BOLS (the latter is hard to tell, as BOLS almost never tells its sources). Seems that Stickmonkey is sick of all the trolling he gets on Warseer, esp. Avian, an ex-moderator.

**Backfire**

Ralis wrote:
I love the idea of having a Belial model, that sounds awesome.

As far as the rest of it goes. *shrugs* It is what it is. Doesn't matter what we end up getting there will be as many people that don't like it as people that do.

The thing I want to see the most, is that there is a unique feel to the chapter, like they did with Blood Angels, instead of just Codex: Space Marines 6th ed (DA fluff)

If Ward does to DA what he did to BA, I will probably quit DA.

I want Dark Angels which feel like Dark Angels. I don't want gee-whiz special toys and units which feel forced and stupid.

**Experiment 626**

pretre wrote:
TedNugent wrote:
6th contained a significant quantity of nerfs against GK.

Or GK and Necrons were designed for 6th...

Necrons were almost certainly designed with 6th in mind and it reads very similar to both Chaos Daemons just before 5th & Beastmen from just before 8th hit.

GK's though are clearly a 5th edition codex that looks like it has a very few nods towards 6th, similar to the 7th ed Skaven book.
The shift towards mass TEQ units has hurt the GK's assault potential, but overall, they still are a dominating army at the mid-range game and still have plenty of OTT/silly things they can pull.

I do seriously hope however that Ward can produce a decent book that's on the same level as the new CSM's, but simply knowing his habbits and that he's

ed-up far more projects than he's balanced, I'm not expecting any miracles...

**fidel**

Cyrax wrote:
Stickmonkey wrote:HQ:
Azrael - Artificer or Terminator options. New model. Lions Helm grants 3+ Inv., Lion's Wrath grants Gets Hot rerolls (army-wide?), Master crafted Plasma Blaster (see Horus Heresy book?), Sword of Secrets is Sx2 Master Crafted Power weapon. Watcher in the Dark model is W:1 5+ Inv, with no other stats. It cannot be targeted by anything including blasts, and must stay within 2" of Azrael or is removed. Watcher can take Look Out Sirs.

Belial - Terminator armor. New model. Eternal Warrior 2+ Inv!!! Grants Elites Deathwing Termys Heroic Intervention if he is attached. Cannot take options, Master Crafted Strombolter. Sword of Secrets is a Relic Blade with an additional effect. Belian grants a buff to Termys within 6".

Sammael - If mounted in his Speeder, unlocks scoring Speeders. Can also take his normal bike.

Azmodai - Current model (finecast) Unlocks no units. His Litanies grants a longer ranged more potent buff.

Ezekiel - Current model (finecast), Psyker Level 3

Barakiel - Master of the Forge. Armed with a "Reaper Cannon" - 36" S:5 Assault (6 or 12?) AP:3 Extremely Expensive in points.

Librarian - Power Level 1 (upgrade to 2)
Company Master - Power Armor, or Terminator armor
Interrogator Chaplain
Command/Honor squad Terminators or Bikes with Belial or Sammael respectively, Apothecary, Standard bearer, 1x Heavy weapon upgrades. W:2 regardless of armor, or bikes.

Elites:

Chaplains / Brother-Interrogators - Unit size 1-3. Chaplain style death masks, dual bolt pistols and power maul. (can upgrade pistols). B-I have an increased BS over regular chaplains and can operate independantly as IC or join units, B-I only buff the unit they join with litanies (more potent version), while non-upgraded chaplains buff a 6" bubble. B-I are only characters if independent, and cannot leave attached units (similar to Wolfguard).

Inner Circle Unit Terminator armor. W:1, Heroic Intervention if Belial is attached to the unit. WS/BS 5. They get a cover save upon deepstriking. "Lion-themed" visually. Entire unit can purchase Sergeant upgrades. No heavy weapons, Unit max size:5. Categorized as Deathwing Assault Unit

Dreadnought - Venerable and Mortis options. Categorized as Deathwing Assault Unit.

Scouts - Land Speeder Storm as dedicated transport. "Markerlight" effect targets one enemy unit - other Dark Angels units then get a bonus (reroll to hit?) versus the unit as long as the Scouts are within line of sight to thier "Fallen" target. Teleport Homer. Sergeant Namaan (WOOHOO!!) returns, granting Reserve rerolls to all Death Wing units.

Techmarine

Veterans

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/11/40k-rumors-dark-angels-hqs-and-elites.html

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?24243-DA-Rumours

You know what, Belial without that ridiculous 2++ save (It would probably be 2+, 3++) sounds legit. An improved Sword of Secrets, because a relic blade should be a bit beefier if its, you know, important. And instead of unlocking terminators as troops, he instead grants them a buff when he joins them (such as heroic intervention). That does not sound to bad, and it somewhat fits with the lore (terminators teleporting in - assaulting with no hesitation since they are with Belial, a bad ass sword, so on and so forth). The rest of it sounds a bit.... iffy.

The problem is now what am I going to do with my Kick as Stand-in Belial Model with a cool pose and TH/SS

**Cyrax**

Don't worry nothing is certain yet.

**Dysartes**

fidel wrote:
The problem is now what am I going to do with my Kick as Stand-in Belial Model with a cool pose and TH/SS

In theory, use him as a regular Master/Captain/whatever-a-generic-SM-Commander-gets-called-in-the-DA-book with that wargear?

**ZebioLizard2**

I do seriously hope however that Ward can produce a decent book that's on the same level as the new CSM's, but simply knowing his habbits and that he's ed-up far more projects than he's balanced, I'm not expecting any miracles...

You want him to produce a book that has bad internal costs?

**Abadabadoobaddon**

fidel wrote:
An improved Sword of Secrets, because a relic blade should be a bit beefier if its, you know, important.

And this is how creep happens. Sword of Secrets was the original +2S power weapon before there was such a thing as relic blades. It was a special unique power weapon, therefore it had +2S. This was considered very powerful - so powerful in fact that CSM had their 1-per-army +2S power weapon taken away by the Gavdex. Then Matt Ward comes out with the 5th ed SM codex and puts a generic Sword of Secrets in it, and he calls it the Relic Blade - after all, who's to say another chapter couldn't also have a unique revered artifact in its armoury too, right? Ok, fair enough. So far so good. But then he goes and allows entire veteran squads to be equipped with them.

**fidel**

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
fidel wrote:
An improved Sword of Secrets, because a relic blade should be a bit beefier if its, you know, important.

And this is how creep happens. Sword of Secrets was the original +2S power weapon before there was such a thing as relic blades. It was a special unique power weapon, therefore it had +2S. This was considered very powerful - so powerful in fact that CSM had their 1-per-army +2S power weapon taken away by the Gavdex. Then Matt Ward comes out with the 5th ed SM codex and puts a generic Sword of Secrets in it, and he calls it the Relic Blade - after all, who's to say another chapter couldn't also have a unique revered artifact in its armoury too, right? Ok, fair enough. So far so good. But then he goes and allows entire veteran squads to be equipped with them.

I couldn't agree more, but if you cant beat em...

Relic Blades do make a bit of sense with space marine chapters though since many chapters had these... relic weapons... that weren't really power swords but definitely not as cumbersome as a thunder hammer/power fist. Vulkan's Spear, All the Ultramarines captains weapons (I am thinking Ventris' weapons)... cannot think of others but you get the idea. The +2 strength might just represent the power/sharpness of that weapon that actually comes from the dark age of technology. So back on track, the Sword of Secrets is not just a power sword, it is a power sword from the long times ago where weapons actually had awesome behind it - I guess now the way GW attempts to unique the relic weapons is by adding special rules. Vulkan's spear, Khan's power sword, Emperor champion blade, and other relic weapons all have different rules.

Edit: REMEMBERED ANOTHER ONE - Can't remember his name for the life of me though - the Space Wolf who had a bunch of novels written atter him... I think Ragnar?

**Zweischneid**

Ghaz has been rockin' a 2++ Eternal Warrior for years.

But than another model might get a stab at it and the sky is falling?

I don't get it.

**Quintinus**

Zweischneid wrote:
Ghaz has been rockin' a 2++ Eternal Warrior for years.

But than another model might get a stab at it and the sky is falling?

I don't get it.

Ghaz Margaret Thatcher has a 2+ invul once per game when he WAAGHs. The Shadowfield grants a 2+ invul until you roll a 1. The Warding Stave grants a 2+ invul in combat.

Belial just gets a straight up 2+ invul, it doesn't matter where and it's not situational.

I expect that Belial will cost at least 250 points if he has a 2+ invul and Eternal Warrior.

**Dysartes**

fidel wrote:
Edit: REMEMBERED ANOTHER ONE - Can't remember his name for the life of me though - the Space Wolf who had a bunch of novels written atter him... I think Ragnar?

Ragnar Blackmane - one of the Special Characters from the original Space Wolves codex, and still rocking the same model today...

**Zweischneid**

Vladsimpaler wrote:

Belial just gets a straight up 2+ invul, it doesn't matter where and it's not situational.

Says who?

I am fairly sure it'll come with some form of caveat like all the other 2++ (assuming the rumour is correct to begin with).

**Ronin_eX**

Sweet jebus, why does everyone always take rumours as wrote truth the second it drops and then complain about it like it is already having a baring on their game? What we have right now is a bunch of contextless rumours that may or may not be true/accurate and could be based on playtest material that is wildly out of date. But people are already grabbing their torches and pitchforks and heading to Frankenward's castle to

him up.

Hell people aren't even discussing the interesting possibilities of the rumours, just railing against a 2++ save that may or may not have severe limitations (and may not even be 2++ anymore, if it ever was).

What I'm interested in is the flood of new units that have been absent from the Dark Angels for years. Deathwing Honour Guard, elite teleport-assault specialist deathing, Deathwing and Ravenwing being straight up troop choices. The respective MotDW and MotRW providing buffs for their troops rather than being prereqs. Expansion in to new territory (Brother-Interrogators) and expanding on themes left to gather dust for over a decade (the importance of Chaplains). Hell combine this with the other hints of Jetbikes and the Dark Angels are finally starting to sound unique again for the first time since '96.

Even even half of this stuff is true this bodes well for an army that has been hovering in developmental limbo for over a decade as other codices siphon of what little they had before.

As a long time Dark Angels player I am glad we aren't getting another

Angels of Death reprint. Either way we are unlikely to know until Q1 next year, so no reason to rage about it already.

**Zweischneid**

As for Deathwing as straigh-up troop choices... why would they ever turn out in significant numbers without their Captain?

Doesn't make much sense IMO.

**Backfire**

Zweischneid wrote:
As for Deathwing as straigh-up troop choices... why would they ever turn out in significant numbers without their Captain?

Doesn't make much sense IMO.

True, on the other hand I've always disliked "you have to take Special character X to field this army". It makes armies so cookie-cutter and special characters feel less "special" if they're on every list. So if this change is true it's one aspect which I like. Particularly if Belial becomes huge killing machine, which also means he's going to be very expensive.

**MajorWesJanson**

Zweischneid wrote:
As for Deathwing as straigh-up troop choices... why would they ever turn out in significant numbers without their Captain?

Doesn't make much sense IMO.

Because there are 100 Deathwing members, and only one captain? He can't be everywhere at once after all.

**Ronin_eX**

Zweischneid wrote:
As for Deathwing as straigh-up troop choices... why would they ever turn out in significant numbers without their Captain?

Doesn't make much sense IMO.

Along with the 100:1 ratio thing. It also opens up leading them with other characters, including but not limited to, Azrael, a non-Belial MotDW made with the Master statline, an Interrorgator-Chaplain in TDA attached to the company for a special mission, an attendant Librarian. And it allows this to happen without needing to build the option in to characters armed with TDA or any other fiddly option. It allows you to field an independant group from a large formation made up of a single unit-type.

What's more, it isn't like FoC chart position has much to do with anything other than allowing for a play style. Blood Angels certainly don't have any more assault squads than a codex force but they get them as troops. Grey Knights are rare as it is but can field pure terminator forces. Neither of these require a special character that would be in control of an unusually large formation of the given type (such as a Captain of one of the Assault-squad reserve companies).

FoC position is all about encouraging unique composition and changing play styles. Reading more in to it than that will only drive you insane. :p

**Quintinus**

Zweischneid wrote:
Vladsimpaler wrote:

Belial just gets a straight up 2+ invul, it doesn't matter where and it's not situational.

Says who?

I am fairly sure it'll come with some form of caveat like all the other 2++ (assuming the rumour is correct to begin with).

Says the rumor.

And given who we're dealing with, I'm going to say highly likely that it will come with no caveat. But like you said, assuming the rumor is even correct in the first place.

**VardenV2**

Vladsimpaler wrote:
Zweischneid wrote:
Vladsimpaler wrote:

Belial just gets a straight up 2+ invul, it doesn't matter where and it's not situational.

Says who?

I am fairly sure it'll come with some form of caveat like all the other 2++ (assuming the rumour is correct to begin with).

Says the rumor.

And given who we're dealing with, I'm going to say highly likely that it will come with no caveat. But like you said, assuming the rumor is even correct in the first place.

I sincerely hope that he doesn't have a 2++ permanent invul save. Even if it was something like a once per game activation liek Ghaz has etc that'd be decent. Belial should be a totally killface character considering he is the captain of one of the best terminator companies in the 40k universe. He is very lackluster in the current rendition. I would love to see him as a much less common choice but with beefier rules, making the army about him, similar to Mephiston etc. As such, I would consider him to be at least 200 points if he gets 3-4 wounds, 2+ 4++ (or whatever is standard) Eternal warrior and a Str 6 power sword and storm bolter + other buffs. Lysander is 200 points and I would hope he would be around the same power level and role as him.

In a way, I am OK with ward writing the dex as I know it should be incredibly powerful, but I also don't want to be seen as a WAAC powergamer/bandwagoner despite the fact that I have been playing DA since 3.5. I also don't want my friends (Vladimpaler + others) to hate my codex as a cheese dex if the units I originally played because they were cool are also super OP. It just ruins the dynamic. At least I can always fall back to my Orks if I need a good fun game with a lot of laughs and tears (as all the Orks die in droves).

-VardenV2

**Quintinus**

VardenV2 wrote:

I sincerely hope that he doesn't have a 2++ permanent invul save. Even if it was something like a once per game activation liek Ghaz has etc that'd be decent. Belial should be a totally killface character considering he is the captain of one of the best terminator companies in the 40k universe. He is very lackluster in the current rendition. I would love to see him as a much less common choice but with beefier rules, making the army about him, similar to Mephiston etc. As such, I would consider him to be at least 200 points if he gets 3-4 wounds, 2+ 4++ (or whatever is standard) Eternal warrior and a Str 6 power sword and storm bolter + other buffs. Lysander is 200 points and I would hope he would be around the same power level and role as him.

I wouldn't mind if he was like Lysander but anything more than that is pretty ridiculous. He's lackluster currently but he's only 130 points, for that amount he's actually pretty good considering what he does for the army and what he comes with as standard. Of course, his stats are a holdover from 4th edition so yeah I would expect something a little bit better.

In a way, I am OK with ward writing the dex as I know it should be incredibly powerful, but I also don't want to be seen as a WAAC powergamer/bandwagoner despite the fact that I have been playing DA since 3.5. I also don't want my friends (Vladimpaler + others) to hate my codex as a cheese dex if the units I originally played because they were cool are also super OP. It just ruins the dynamic. At least I can always fall back to my Orks if I need a good fun game with a lot of laughs and tears (as all the Orks die in droves).

-VardenV2

I know you're not a powergamer so it's not a huge deal, it's not as if I will hold it against you. However, assuming even 3/4ths of the described buffs are as ridiculous as the rumors are describing, well...that's what God made Vendettas for, so I can't be too mad.