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Aww I like the Kroot Warsphere better
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat490028a&prodId=prod1101795

Its quite a bit smaller than Sammael with only slightly more detail than an ping-pong ball. And its $110 Australian. Yay!

Trasvi wrote:
Its quite a bit smaller than Sammael with only slightly more detail than an ping-pong ball. And its $110 Australian. Yay!

That's £70...

wow.

 mwnciboo wrote:
I was browsing the GW Website and saw this for £20.50.



FOR FIVE MODELS....FIVE MODELS!

almost the same as GW Rhino or Drop Pod (my Local store sells RHINO's and PODS at £21), What is going on? I bought a WH Elf set from the Old WH boxed set for £20, which had lots of models,.

I cannot see why this is £20.50 for so little.

And your point is? It may be that I have too much disposable income but I don't mind paying these kinda prices for things I need in my army.

So rich people don't mind spending money? Wow. I've learned something new today.

I can't believe that Kroot Warsphere is $66. It's not even that big.

Compared to my other hobbies and those of some of my friends and family GW/40K is pocket change.

[shrug]

$300 - $500 for an army isn't really all that much of a bind when you think about it. Even $1000 is doable in todays cost of living.

I think the main thing to do is plan your army and buy accordingly, rather than trying to buy 1 or 2 of everything, just buy what you need, a bit like resource management

 Delephont wrote:
$300 - $500 for an army isn't really all that much of a bind when you think about it. Even $1000 is doable in todays cost of living.

I think the main thing to do is plan your army and buy accordingly, rather than trying to buy 1 or 2 of everything, just buy what you need, a bit like resource management

By whose standards though?

Speaking personally, $300-$500 represents a not inconsiderable investment! I'm sure there are many people who don't have that kind of disposable income to throw around on a regular basis. It also goes back to what someone pointed out earlier, which is the perception of value for money of something. I commented that a friend of mine almost choked upon hearing the price of an LoTR Troll (having no other knowledge of the price of miniature wargaming), yet at the same time I am sure that there are some that would have a great desire for that item, and so would be prepared to pay for it.

The issue is here that there is a sliding scale between what someone will be prepared to pay for something, and the point that it becomes too expensive to contemplate purchasing. I made a large list of points in a post a page back about why people might conceive that, as of 2012, GW's prices are beginning to become unreasonably expensive. I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of users on Dakka, those who are big fans (enough to spend time registering and commenting on a forum), would deem those High Elves to be too expensive. So, how would a more casual purchaser view them, or a parent looking to get something for their kid? The chance of them scoffing, turning around and heading off to the local 'Game' would be correspondingly that much higher.

I do agree with your second point though, and that sensible planning of purchasing can help. I'm not sure how well that will tie in with getting a maximum 4-5 days of prior notice before a release with respect to new releases.

 Pacific wrote:
By whose standards though?

Speaking personally, $300-$500 represents a not inconsiderable investment! I'm sure there are many people who don't have that kind of disposable income to throw around on a regular basis.

Except he's talking about an army, not just $500 dropped on models.

That's not going to happen on a regular basis. Even the most reliable army hopped isn't going to hop to every new release, and for most people who only play one or two armies, that's pretty much a one off cost, then just smaller purchases to keep the army interesting.

I know my video game addiction cost me much, much, much more than $500 a year (it actually averaged $2000au a year when including systems).

Holy crap, how? Did you buy every console?

Well, I actually had a discussion IRL much along these lines today. Warhammer is actually fairly cheap compared to many other hobbies. If you play MTG booster draft it runs 13$ per go, generally the FLGS runs 3 on a friday night, thats 39$ on one day, and those cards will be worthless in tourneys in a year.
Many MMORPG players play multiple MMOs, so for the sake of argument, lets say you play WoW and EVE, that is 30$ a month that will net you 0 profit. Now lets move onto other hobbies. Frisbee golf discs cost about 15$ per disc, and if you play very often you know they get lost rather easily, so its easy to rack up a decent amount of cash in just lost discs.
Now if shooting is your hobby of choice, a box of 50 .45acp full metal jackets runs about 33$ at WalMart, a box of 100 sports 12 guage shells and a box of 80 clays will cost you around 30 bucks. Now that is a one time thing too.
After this knowledge it actually makes this hobby sound cheap, which I suppose in a ridiculous way it is in comparison to many other hobbies.



As to the people saying 'Well if you do not like the hobby then GTFO', I want to point out many members on here are old school 2nd-3rd ed players when everything was much cheaper, or heck even in my two years of playing I have found the price hikes really suck. And since I have dropped way too much money into the hobby it just means I will gripe but bite the bullet on prices.

 Sidstyler wrote:
Holy crap, how? Did you buy every console?

Two PS3's (one died, first one when they were $800au, second when they were $500au, $400au for a Wii, $400au for a PSP and ~$1500 for a gaming PC). Added to that ~20-25 games per system (I'm a single player whore, I find very few multiplayer games I really enjoy) averaging $80au each, over a period of 4 years.

When I did the math, even average math looking at ways I saved money by getting games cheaper at supermarkets, it fething disgusted me how much I spent on video games. I literally could have bought, over those 4 years, multiple armies for GW games at local prices including expensive FW additions like titans, and not come near how much I spent on video games.

And those video games are now done, I'll likely not replay them, while my Salamanders from 10 years ago are perfectly fine to throw on the table right now. Even a $1000au outlay for a 1500pt army at local prices is nothing compared to a video game addiction.

I actually find GW prices to be very reasonable.

Too bad they refuse to charge me those prices, and instead insist i pay near double or more than what UK/US buyers pay.

No other wargames company does this to me. Local game stores put a small premium on some items, but no other company charges me double for their wares.

This is why i stopped buying GW.

 Wardragoon wrote:




As to the people saying 'Well if you do not like the hobby then GTFO', I want to point out many members on here are old school 2nd-3rd ed players when everything was much cheaper, or heck even in my two years of playing I have found the price hikes really suck. And since I have dropped way too much money into the hobby it just means I will gripe but bite the bullet on prices.

Man I remember when a land raider was $50, 2 years ago. Now it is $75. And a Storm Raven is $82.

 Noisy_Marine wrote:

 Wardragoon wrote:




As to the people saying 'Well if you do not like the hobby then GTFO', I want to point out many members on here are old school 2nd-3rd ed players when everything was much cheaper, or heck even in my two years of playing I have found the price hikes really suck. And since I have dropped way too much money into the hobby it just means I will gripe but bite the bullet on prices.

Man I remember when a land raider was $50, 2 years ago. Now it is $75. And a Storm Raven is $82.

Exactly, so for modern prices you could have 2 years ago bought 3 Land Raiders, just odd that someone this new into the hobby has seen this much of a price hike in warhammer(50% more cash for a plastic tank makes my wallet cry)

I remember thinking land raiders were overpriced at $50. I never thought I'd be looking at the same model years later and seeing it priced close to $80, I figured GW would have to be stupid to do that when the prices were already scaring people away left and right. It's a horrifying thought but I honestly think another 3-4 years from now we'll see $100 land raiders and GW will show no signs of stopping then, either.

I'd do that whole "They're shooting themselves in the foot!" thing, but they've blown off both legs at this point and are somehow still clinging desperately to life. I wonder just how fanatical GW fans are, will they buy $100 land raiders? $200? When is it too much?

 Sidstyler wrote:
It's a horrifying thought but I honestly think another 3-4 years from now we'll see $100 land raiders and GW will show no signs of stopping then, either.

Something to note - we didn't get a lot of the latest price increase in Australia. Lands Raiders and Storm Ravens were untouched, as were the Tyranid increases. We got some, like the Aspect warrior increases, but we were spared the more ridiculous ones. So it seems GW does know there's a ceiling on their prices and won't breach them. They've hit it mostly in Australia, but it seems they still think the US has some room left to go.

Diablo $39, spent 200 hours on it since release.

*Looks at $40 finecost Necron HQ "How you doin?"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sidstyler wrote:
I remember thinking land raiders were overpriced at $50. I never thought I'd be looking at the same model years later and seeing it priced close to $80, I figured GW would have to be stupid to do that when the prices were already scaring people away left and right. It's a horrifying thought but I honestly think another 3-4 years from now we'll see $100 land raiders and GW will show no signs of stopping then, either.

I'd do that whole "They're shooting themselves in the foot!" thing, but they've blown off both legs at this point and are somehow still clinging desperately to life. I wonder just how fanatical GW fans are, will they buy $100 land raiders? $200? When is it too much?

The stormraven which was same price as a land raider, is $100 already in Canada :<

 Sidstyler wrote:


I'd do that whole "They're shooting themselves in the foot!" thing, but they've blown off both legs at this point and are somehow still clinging desperately to life. I wonder just how fanatical GW fans are, will they buy $100 land raiders? $200? When is it too much?

Most people who are okay with $80 landraiders don't need to buy any LRs no more.

And with your metaphor I kinda imagined the Black Knight in Monty Python. "It's just a flesh wound!"

 -Loki- wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:
Holy crap, how? Did you buy every console?

Two PS3's (one died, first one when they were $800au, second when they were $500au, $400au for a Wii, $400au for a PSP and ~$1500 for a gaming PC). Added to that ~20-25 games per system (I'm a single player whore, I find very few multiplayer games I really enjoy) averaging $80au each, over a period of 4 years.

When I did the math, even average math looking at ways I saved money by getting games cheaper at supermarkets, it fething disgusted me how much I spent on video games. I literally could have bought, over those 4 years, multiple armies for GW games at local prices including expensive FW additions like titans, and not come near how much I spent on video games.

And those video games are now done, I'll likely not replay them, while my Salamanders from 10 years ago are perfectly fine to throw on the table right now. Even a $1000au outlay for a 1500pt army at local prices is nothing compared to a video game addiction.

Did Australia do an embargo on ebay as well? Just like you can buy cheap GW stuff on ebay
whats stopping you from purchasing games on ebay? last time I checked most sellers do world wide shipping,
and each games are like $35 ish....

Some day I gotta see these purchases of yours lol...

For the last 4 years , I spent like under $200 on games.

$50 a year ;')

I don't buy the argument that because some hobbies are more expensive than miniature wargaming that GW can charge whatever they want.

Take an expensive hobby like off-roading. Now imagine if the 4x4 manufacturers started increasing their prices by 10-15% a year on whole vehicles and parts. Now imagine someone coming along and telling them that since off-roading is cheaper than yacht racing, it's okay. Then the yacht companies start raising prices 10-15% a year again and again and when people object, the white knights can tell them it's okay because yacht racing is cheap compared to space tourism.

I think the real reason for the price increases is that GW has realized it's okay to churn their customer base. They target their products at teens who will quit in a couple years and hope to replace them with new customers. If someone quits in less than two years, they might only experience one price increase and not really think anything is out of line.

The higher and higher GW increases the prices, the more and more they make room in the market for competition. And not just because people might go for a cheaper alternative but because the higher prices being seen as normal mean smaller manufacturers can get in at a lower scale of production because they can price more aggressively thanks to GW's change of expectations among a significant segment of the gaming population.

 heartserenade wrote:
And with your metaphor I kinda imagined the Black Knight in Monty Python. "It's just a flesh wound!"

lol, that somehow seems very appropriate, too, if what we've heard about the culture at GW is true at all.

As far as gaming on the cheap goes, Steam sales help with that a lot if you're into PC gaming. Haven't been much of a console gamer since the PS2 days myself...

 Scott-S6 wrote:
You realise that's a typical per-mini cost for Infinity or Warmachine or Malifxau or Mercs (mercs is more) or, well, lots of other games?

Wow. It only took 5 posts this time for someone to point this out. Must be some sort of record.

Of course, you don't need quite as many models in any of those games than you do for Warhammer. And using "But Necromunda doesn't need as many" is just a red herring.

The whole argument seems to hinge on not whether the imdividual components are expensive, but whether it is expensive compared to other Hobbies.

The problem is Hobbies is a wide remit, comparing War gaming with Paintballing, Shooting or any other sport/ pastime is not a fair comparison.

So if we restrict it to just other miniature games, or miniature / model based hobbies you can see a massive discrepency,

I took up FLAMES OF WAR in about 3 years ago, and invested £200 in it, a not inconsiderable sum to a man with a Wife, Kids, house car, Holidays etc etc. So 10 years back as a younger 20-something I had no wife, no kids etc and higher disposable income and spent more on Wine, women and song, however I was still concious of not sinking all of my money into a hobby / pastime.

FOW was a reasonable game system, I could literally put together an entire force for £100, and extra supplementary platoons and list so my large ORBAT would give me 10 or so Army list options for a further £100. This to me, is good value with £200 total and 10 different styles of Armies from EARTH & STEEL, infantry, recon, arty, mech, Armour or Mech Infantry lists.

Lets take a 1500 points SM force. A decent army needs a minimum backbone (if not more), that would be:-

2 x TACTICAL SQUAD (£23 x 2 = £46)
2 x RHINO (£22.50 x 2 = £45)

This isn't even a full army but will cost you £91, and this is not even close to a full army.

If you compare like with like, e.g MANTIC full sized tournament army, or a Privateer Press skirmish force or a FOW 1750 force. I understand why, but considering the UK has been in a recession since 2008, and the world has been financially insecure and why has GW smashed up it's prices regardless of financial conditions. Their Share-price has been very good, which is great for Shareholders e.g (Mr Kirby) and not great for us. Many of us have branched out into other systems because of price pressures.

MANTIC :-



£14.99 for 10 Figures.



£9.99 for 5 Figures.

This is much more reasonable, however the GW prices are high to stop the haemorrhaging of their Retail arm. Time to slim down their Retail Operation and move into cheaper premises on the high street, and stop buying high end retail space for a niche product,

 LunaHound wrote:
Diablo $39, spent 200 hours on it since release.

*Looks at $40 finecost Necron HQ "How you doin?"

And you're lucky if that necron HQ didn't come out of the package heavily bubbled and damaged.

 frozenwastes wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

Archaon.

One cavalry model.

Go look.

AUS: $83

CDN: $57.67

US: $47.65

UK: $45.67

(all in AUS dollars)

So much for GW costing the same as others on a per model basis. I couldn't find a 40mm based fantasy model for anywhere near that price. And Archaon is what? A 10 year old sculpt now?

I guess GW expects mommy to open up her wallet for Timmy without thinking too much about the contents of the kit. "Well Timmy, if you're sure that's what you want for your birthday..."

Archaon is a special character and still considered one of the best sculpts in GW's entire line by many people.

Is it overpriced, yes, but everything considered it is not the best example to prove the point that GW's models are overpriced.

I am not defending GW's prices btw. A lot of their stuff is absolutely rediculously priced considering what you get in game-terms, especially everything (not-so)finecast. Mentioning Necromunda is a bit desperate though. Fred Flintstone probably sculpted most of those models back in the day

Warmachine/Hordes isn't that cheap either since they moved away from being the skirmish game they started out being.

 TBD wrote:
Archaon is a special character and still considered one of the best sculpts in GW's entire line by many people.

Quality of sculpt shouldn't be a factor at all - there's some terrible sculpts at premium prices too. Special character, I'll grant you, as everyone does it. The price of a Carnifex for one cavalry model, special character or not, is obscene.

 -Loki- wrote:

 TBD wrote:
Archaon is a special character and still considered one of the best sculpts in GW's entire line by many people.

Quality of sculpt shouldn't be a factor at all - there's some terrible sculpts at premium prices too.

I agree, but when perception of value for money comes into play it does play an important part.

If prices go up x%, people don't spend x% more, they will buy x% less.

Honestly I think high prices aren't putting people off nearly as much as a good old-fashioned recession.

mwnciboo wrote: Many of us have branched out into other systems because of price pressures.

MANTIC :-



£14.99 for 10 Figures.



£9.99 for 5 Figures.

This is much more reasonable, however the GW prices are high to stop the haemorrhaging of their Retail arm. Time to slim down their Retail Operation and move into cheaper premises on the high street, and stop buying high end retail space for a niche product,

When one of those cheaper companies makes a model which isn't ugly, bad proportions, visually 'wrong' or all around uninteresting, I will buy them. So far, the only models which actually look good either all have similar prices as GW or are more than GW. The Mantic pictures you have posted have serious flaws from the waste down which make them a non-starter to me. I suppose you get what you pay for. The fact they fixed those flaws in thier dreadball boxed set shows me they know this particular model is flawed but they still sell it.

I buy the models which interest me to paint. If you don't care about how your models look and they are nothing more than game tokens, I suggest using cheap tokens instead.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TBD wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 TBD wrote:
Archaon is a special character and still considered one of the best sculpts in GW's entire line by many people.

Quality of sculpt shouldn't be a factor at all - there's some terrible sculpts at premium prices too.

I agree, but when perception of value for money comes into play it does play an important part.

And most of the cheap 'alternatives' are ugly... I recommend buying models which look good. Just happens to be so far a majority of the good looking, well-sculpted models are higher priced. I feel like you get what you pay for.

nkelsch wrote:
When one of those cheaper companies makes a model which isn't ugly, bad proportions, visually 'wrong' or all around uninteresting, I will buy them. So far, the only models which actually look good either all have similar prices as GW or are more than GW.

Corvus Belli's infantry models are sold 8.75 euros each (that's roughly $11). Looking at GW's website, most single infantry metal/finecast models are priced $15 or above. And CB has arguably one of the best sculpts right now, and at the very least their females look like actual females and not men with cleavages.

Dark Sword miniatures also has fine sculpts (especially their George R.R. Martin line), and they're selling it $10 or less each piece.

Both lines are as visually appealing (or more so) than GW's, and they both charge less.