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2012/08/25 17:15:46
Subject: 1500 Jy2's Grey Knight Horde vs Janthkin's Necrons - BAO Scenarios
While it may probably not be the most competitive GK build out there, I am trying out a new GK build which I think could be fun. A departure from my normal Crowe-Purifiers or Draigowing, I am testing out my all-infantry, semi-horde Take-All-Comer's pure Grey Knights foot-list.
And who better to test it out against than dakka's own one-and-only Mod, Janthkin, who happened to have brought a slightly modified version of his balanced Adepticon Necron list. His army was running scratch-built scythes even before the GW scythes came out. I think this will be a good practice game for both Janthkin and I. It may also be a glimpse into the future of 6th Edition - the former powerhouse army versus the current powerhouse army perhaps?
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
10x Strike Squad - 2x Psycannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dreadnought - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Psyfleman Dreadnought - 2x TL-Autocannons, Psybolt Ammo
Aegis Defense Line - Quad-guns
Psychic Powers:
Coteaz - Prescience (Re-roll hits), Perfect Timing (Ignore cover saves)
Inquisitor - Misfortunte (Enemy must re-roll all successful saves)
Basically, my army relies on shooting buffed by psychic powers. With good shooting and decent assault, it's only real weakness is its mobility, which I will compensate for by deepstriking 1, maybe 2 units of strikers.
1500 Necrons
Overlord - 2+, Mindshackle Scarabs, Res Orb, Warscythe
Royal Court:
1x Harbinger of Destruction Cryptek - Eldritch Lance, Solar Pulse
1x Lord - 2+, Mindshackle Scarabs, Warscythe
10x Immortals - Gauss
Night Scythe
10x Immortals - Tesla
Night Scythe
5x Warriors
5x Warriors
9x Scarabs
Doom Scythe
3x Spyders - 1x Claw Array
2x Spyders
Janthkin brought a very balanced necron army with only 3 flyers and a core ground presence. Instead of bringing wraiths like I normally do, he opted for a mini-scarab farm instead. His army has good shooting, good resiliency, mediocre assault and ultra-high mobility thanks to his scythes. Overall, I think it is a good list and I can see my knights having problems with them if they cannot shoot down his flyers.
The BAO incorporates 3 mission objectives all at the same time. You win if you have more VP's at the end of the game than your opponent.
Crusade - 3 Objectives (5E Seize Ground). Crusade is worth 4 VP's to the player who wins it.
Emperor's Will - 1 Objective each (5E Capture & Control). The mission is worth 3 VP's.
Purge the Alien - Victory points for killing enemy units (5E Annihilation). 2 VP's.
Slay the Warlord - Each person has to nominate his highest LDHQ to be his Warlord. If you can kill that Warlord, then you get 1 VP.
First Blood - The first person to kill 1 enemy unit gets 1 VP.
Linebreaker - If you have at least 1 scoring or denial unit in the enemy deployment zone at the end of the game, you get 1 VP.
Mysterious Objectives - Only the Crusade objectives are mysterious. Each objective has a special rule to be determined whenever a unit comes within 3" of it.
Night-Fighting - There is a possibility of Night-fight on Turns 1 or starting on Turns 5+. Night-fight now works differently than it used to in 5th ed.
Deployment: Dawn of War (5E Pitched Battle)
Initiative: Grey Knights, but I force Necrons to go first.
Normally I'd say the Necrons are likely to take this, but given how many bodies the Grey Knights have on the field, then I'd say they have a pretty good chance of outfighting and out-shooting the Necrons as long as they can bring down those flyers. It all comes down to how many 6s the Knights can roll.
Incidentally, why Coteaz as the Warlord? I could never see the use for Coteaz outside of taking Henchmen as Troops or countering deep striking lists.
I initially voted a Necron win but after thinking about it I think I'm going to have to give it to the Grey Knights. That's a pretty good amount of firepower that is going to have a lot of rerolls. I don't see enough tools in the Necron list to deal with it.
-5000 Pts. of Orks
-1750 Pts. of Ravenwing
2012/08/26 10:43:09
Subject: Re:1500 Jy2's Grey Knight Horde vs Janthkin's Necrons
I am suprised he did not take at least one gloom prism. Tough call but I am going to go with the grey knights. So much good strength fire power which will tear through the scarabs as well as lots of bodies on the table. Also you having a large portion of your army off the table allowing him 1-2 turns of free movement to get close will allow him to counter attack. I am guessing he will put the aegis more towards the middle of the table allowing him to advance towards it in time to shoot your fliers while still trying to get in psycannon range.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/26 10:44:28
People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer
I like you style man, love footy lists and marines are sweet, I will follow this battle to see how the gray knights do and maybe I'll make a similar list.
Check out my little ork story I am working on here!
His flyers look pretty good though for scratch build
40kGlobal AOA member, regular of Overlords podcast club and 4tk gaming store. Blogger @ http://sanguinesons.blogspot.co.uk/ 06/2013: 1st at War of the Roses ETC warm up.
08/213: 3rd place double teams at 4tk
09/2013: 7th place, best daemon and non eldar/tau army at Northern Warlords GT
10/2013: 3rd/4th at Battlefield Birmingham
11/2013: 5th at GT heat 3
11/2013: 5th COG 2k at 4tk
01/2014: 34th at Caledonian
03/2014: 3rd GT Final
2012/08/27 03:14:30
Subject: 1500 Jy2's Grey Knight Horde vs Janthkin's Necrons
I am wondering how you'll play the ADL. Obviously the flyers can see over it negating its cover. ADL I think is not a forcefield so the flyers should be able to shoot down the dreads in short order
Grey Knights: Honestly, I can't really predict who will take this. Let's examine the armies more closely.
Movement - Necrons have got flyers. Grey Knights are on foot. 'Nuff said.
Advantage - Necrons
Shooting - Grey knights have massed S5 stormbolters. They've got 8 psycannons, 2 psyfleman dreads and the quad-gun to try to take down the necron flyers. Necrons have tesla destructors and the very deadly deathray. They've also got the shooting of 2 full-sized squads of immortals. However, the X-factor here is the grey knight psychic powers. Prescience, Misfortune and Perfect Timing all help to break the balance and tip the edge towards the grey knights IMO.
Advantage - Grey Knights
Assault - Force weapons for everyone? At least the necron lords with Mindshackle Scarabs and their 2+ saves will be tough. They've also got 5 monstrous creatures and tar-pitting scarabs. It'll be close, but I think the grey knights should be able to out-assault them.
Advantage - Grey Knights
Resiliency - While having a lot of bodies help to make the knights resilient, necrons have some tough, tough units. Scythes are just so hard to take down. So are the scarabs and spyders. Immortals have 4+ or 5+ We'll Be Backs (Reanimation Protocols) as well as the protection of the scythe transports. Though I believe the knights have the greater firepower, necrons in this case have the greater resiliency.
Advantage - Necrons
Intangibles - We are both savvy generals so I think skill-wise, we are both evenly matched. In Crusade, necrons should have the advantage with the better mobility. In the Emperor's Will, my knights will have a hard time getting pass his spyders and scarabs protecting his objective. At the same time, good luck trying to dislodge my 30-40 grey knights from my objective. I think this mission is a draw. As for Purge the Alien, I feel the grey knights will have the advantage. While necrons are ultra-resilient, if the grey knights focus-fire on 1 unit at a time, they should be able to get the Victory Point much easier than necrons will be able to wipe out the GK units. As for the bonus points, I think grey knights will take First Blood due to their superior shooting. However, necrons have a better chance at Linebreaker due to their ultra-high mobility and also Slay the Warlord due to their much more resilient Warlord.
Advantage - Necrons
So overall, I think the chances for a Grey Knight victory is 40-60. That is, GK's have a 40% chance of winning and necrons 60%. It'll be a close game and will probably come down to the bonus points to determine the victory. And it is here where the necrons may have just a slight advantage.
The 3rd Crusade objective is hidden in the LOS-blocking terrain (to the left). The objective (turtle) on the right is the necron's Emperor's Will (EW) objective.
I place my Aegis Defense Line in the middle of the board. My EW objective is just slightly behind the fortification (and out of the picture).
For Warlord traits, in the BAO scenarios, we roll just once and get to choose from any of the 3 Trait columns.
I get Furious Charge for my Warlord's unit in my opponent's deployment zone.
Janthkin gets to outflank his Warlord's unit.
Also, it is Night-fiight on Turn 1.
My opponent deploys his scarabs and spyders directly across from my Aegis Defense Line (ADL).
He hides 1 unit of warriors in the ruins claiming his EW objective.
The rest of his army is in reserves.
I try to fit almost my entire army onto the crowded steps. 1 unit of strikers (without IC's) is in area terrain.
I will deepstrike my last unit of strikers.
Lastly, I don't even bother with trying to steal the initiative.
I actually forgot to take pictures this turn, but not much really happened.
1 spyder takes a Wound while spawning a scarab base. He now has 14 scarab bases after spawning.
Scarabs move up, though the spyders remain behind cover.
Scarabs assault my quad-gun. I then remind Kevin that being T7, his scarabs can't hurt it. As a matter of fact, because they can't hurt it, they can't even charge it. So he just decides to not charge them at all.
Grey Knights 1
Spoiler:
Grey knights advance. One striker makes it to the quad-gun.
But before that, I cast all my psychic powers - both Prescience and Perfect Timing on Coteaz's unit and Misfortune and on the scarabs.
BTW, a question arose with regards to Malediction powers (i.e. Misfortune) and that is, do you need to be able to see your target? We just decided to 4+ it and I end up getting the benefit of the doubt (no, you don't need to be able to see the target unit in this case).
It takes the combined shooting of 2 striker squads as well as both psyfleman dreads to blow away all the scarabs, thus giving me First Blood.
Kill Points - Grey Knights: 1, Necrons: 0
My last strike squad fires at his spyders but only manage to cause 1W to a spyder.
Necrons 2
Spoiler:
Overview of the top of Turn 2.
The unit of gauss Immortals and his Warlord outflanks onto my left board edge. They disembark.
His other night scythe comes in on the same side as his Warlord and they disembark as well.
Doom scythe comes in hot after my dreads.
My quad-gun tries to shoot it down but I manage only 1 pen and it is shaken....or not. He Living Metals off the shaken result. At least I've taken off 1 Hull Point from it.
Spyders then advance.
Doom scythe blows up 1 dread and kill 2 strikers with its shooting. The deathray also hits my other dread but he fails to even glance it. Tesla-destructors fail to kill any strikers.
Kill Points - Grey Knights: 1, Necrons: 1
Then both units of immortals and both night scythes focus on my strike squad in area terrain and shoot down 8! Ouch!! He also kills 1 striker from my Inquisitor's unit.
2 strikers later get back up because we find out that his Overlord did not have a Staff of Light (he traded it for his warscythe ).
Overall, a very respectable shooting phase for the crons. They killed 1 dread and shot down a total of 9 grey knights.
Grey Knights 2
Spoiler:
Janthkin uses his Solar Pulse this turn.
I decide to make a play for his EW objective and deepstrike my unit of strikers into his deployment zone. They almost scatter off the board.
Grey knight movement.
By the ways, I successfully cast all 3 psychic powers. However, his Immortals Deny the Witch (DtW) on Misfortune! That was huge for him as I was getting ready to shoot them off the board.
It takes the the psyfleman dread and Coteaz's unit with Prescience (re-roll's to hit) and Perfect Timing (ignore cover saves) to down his doom scythe.
Kill Points - Grey Knights: 2, Necrons: 1
My strikers then shoot at his warriors and down the lance-tek and 1 warrior (that was all that they could see).
Finally, my other strike squad shoots at his unit of 3 spyders. I roll poorly this time and only put 1W on them.
Necrons 3
Spoiler:
His last unit of warriors come in.
Necron movement. The noose starts to tighten around my knights. However, with force weapons, they are ready to defend themselves.
I get off easy as shooting by 1 unit of immortals and both night scythes only manage to take down 4 strikers. My justicar uses Look Out Sir to pass along 1-2 of those unsaved wounds.
Here, both units of warriors rapid-fire and take out 2 strikers.
The gauss immortals (with Overord) then charge my strikers. There are actually 4 grey knights there as this is when we realized that his Warlord did not have a Staff of Light.
No matter. Mindshackle goes off, I kill only 1 immortal and he wipes out my strikers (I roll poorly on my saves).
Kill Points - Grey Knights: 2, Necrons: 2
Spyders then assault and blow up my dreadnought. 1 striker dies in the explosion.
Kill Points - Grey Knights: 2, Necrons: 3
The carnage continues. I've lost another 10 knights and my last dreadnought.
Grey Knights 3
Spoiler:
I decide to go after the closest, most immediate threat - his spyders.
I believe Coteaz perils while trying to cast a psychic power (or maybe it was my Inquisitor, don't quite remember).
Here I spread out my strikers so that I can go after either units of warriors.
Shooting wipes out his entire unit of warriors on his EW objective.
Kill Points - Grey Knights: 3, Necrons: 3
Shooting by my strikers wipe out all but 1 spyder (with just 1W remaining).
I then assault, casting Hammerhand, and finish off his last spyder. I then consolidate towards his Warlord's unit, daring them to come towards my knights.
Kill Points - Grey Knights: 4, Necrons: 3
Necrons 4
Spoiler:
One night scythe goes after my strikers. The other flies off the table.
Immortals advance. The Necron Warlord splits off and goes after my strikers. 1 against 8?
Shooting by both squads of immortals only manages to take down 2 strikers.
His warriors and night scythe take down only 1 striker.
His Warlord then charges my strikers. My psycannons cannot see his Warlord and so do not get to Overwatch fire at him.
He challenges my Justicar to try to limit the damage I can do to his lord. I then accept to try to limit the damage his Warlord can do to my squad!
One thing Kevin forgot was that he still gets his 2+ against my AP3 force weapons.
In any case, he of course kills my Justicar.
Grey Knights 4
Spoiler:
My HQ and unit go after the immortals. They deny my Misfortune yet again!
Shooting takes down 4 immortals. 2 would get back up.
Here I opt to go after his 2 spyders instead of his 5 warriors. Shooting is subpar and fails to cause any unsaved wounds.
I know, I know....his warriors are an easy Kill Point and a scoring unit as well. However, his spyders are a larger threat and I didn't really want them to get the charge off on me. I figured I'd shoot them and then try to wipe them out in assault. I can kill his warriors at any time after that.
I cast Hammerhand but roll poorly in combat. Needing 3's to hit and 5's to wound, I only manage to kill 1 spyder and he kills 1 striker in return.
Coteaz's unit makes the 7" charge! I cast Hammerhand and wipe out 4 immortals. My opponent, however, then passes his LD 6 morale!
My strikers continue to swing ineptly at his Warlord. His Warlord then swings just as ineptly back at me. The only casualty done is from my own unit hitting itself due to Mindshackles.
Finally, my strikers manage to kill one of his spyders.
Necrons 5
Spoiler:
His night scythe comes back in but has no target.
Warriors go to help out his spyder.
My combat woes continue as I cannot kill his spyder. We tie combat with 1 casualty apiece.
His Overlord is winning the war of attrition. I do manage to cause 1W with a force weapon but he makes his 2+ save. He kills 2 strikers.
Finally, his tesla immortals charge into the Coteaz combat. His lord issues a challenge. I accept with my Inquisitor. I have a slim chance of trying to kill him. Even though I pass my MSS test, the Inquisitor is unable to wound his lord and gets insta-gibbed for his efforts.
BTW, my justicar dies from Perils while rolling box-cars (double 's) to cast Hammerhand.
Coteaz only kills 1 immortal. Grrrr.....
Fortunately my unit is stubborn as I roll a 9 on morale.
Kill Points - Grey Knights: 4, Necrons: 4
Grey Knights 5
Spoiler:
Things are looking downright bad for me right now. Even with force weapons, I am unable to hurt his lords and am rolling poorly in my combats.
My awesome-less continues as I actually lose assault against his warriors and spyder this time. Fortunately, my guys stick around.
His lord challenges Coteaz. I refuse because I do not want to get insta-gibbed by his warscythe or for that matter, my own daemonhammer.
He then wipes out the squad.
In the combat with his Warlord, I am reduced to just 1 striker left.
Kill Points - Grey Knights: 4, Necrons: 5
We roll to see if the game continues and it does.
Necrons 6
Spoiler:
In this combat, he beats me badly and breaks my squad. I fall back safely.
Coteaz has no where left to hide and must accept the Necron Lord's challenge. I am not as fortunate this time as he insta-kills my Warlord.
Kill Points - Grey Knights: 4, Necrons: 6
At least my lone grey knight survives his Warlord's onslaught.
Grey Knights 6
Spoiler:
In a last ditch effort, I charge his warriors. Overwatch kills 1 knight and the other dies in assault without killing anyone.
Kill Points - Grey Knights: 4, Necrons: 7
And for the finale, his Warlord wipes out my last grey knight and I am tabled.
Kill Points - Grey Knights: 4, Necrons: 8
Necrons get Crusade (+4 VP's) and Purge the Alien (+2 VP's) as well as Line Breaker and Slay the Warlord for a total of 8 VP's to my 1 (for First Blood).
Let's try to see where it all went wrong for the knights.
1. No hammers. Without hammers, I couldn't really do much against his tough, tough lords in combat as I couldn't wound him and when I did, he still had his 2+. Originally, my list had hammers and other upgrades but no 2nd HQ. So the trade-off now is a slight buff in combat versus a slight buff in shooting thanks to psychic powers. My opponent then denied my psychic power (Misfortune) twice and I could have used a hammer (on a regular infantry, not the justicar) in combat against his lords. Should I give up the 2nd psyker or perhaps some infantry to get some hammers into my units? Hmmm....this is a tough call.
2. Did I dedicate too much of my shooting onto his flyers? On Turn 2, I fired at his doom scythe with my psyfleman and my buffed-up unit. Originally, I had planned on shooting at his infantry, but when Misfortune got denied, I decided to go after his flyer instead. Thereafter, I just ignored his night scythes because they were not as big a threat as his troops and spyders. However, my concern about the necron flyers caused me to play a little more defensively than I would have liked by castling up in the center. It's ironic that the less-assaulty necrons are advancing and putting the pressure on the more shooty-&-assaulty grey knights but that's exactly what Janthkin did. Basically, he turned my Maximum Threat Overload strategy back onto me.
3. Necron alpha-strike. This is one of the greatest strengths of the new necrons - their ability to almost always get the alpha-strike on the opponent. Thanks to their flyers, my opponent was basically dictating the action. I was just reacting (though for the grey knights, that isn't necessarily a bad thing). He came in, disembarked all his immortals and then proceeded to take out 1 dread and 25% of my forces (or 33% of the models that was on the board at that time). That really hurt.
4. Maximum Threat Overload. Basically, Janthkin used my own strategy against me. He boxed me in and threw everything at me almost all at once - his spyders, doom scythe, night scythes, his Warlord and the 2 blocks of immortals. More importantly, he was trying to control the board by boxing me in, thus achieving Positional Dominance against me. Positional Dominance is my philosophy of trying to gain an advantage in objectives-based missions by establishing the more advantageous positions over your opponent. However, I was expecting this, which was why I deepstruck 1 unit of strikers into his deployment zone to threaten his forces there instead. And I think my counter-strategy had a good chance of working if only I could kill something in assault.
But throught the turbulent times, there were a couple of bright spots.
1. Divination with shooty GK's is just sooooo good. I actually managed to blow away 14 scarabs in 1 turn! Thats 42 wounds I did with shooting! And it could have been much worse for my opponent had he not denied Misfortune twice!! It is powers like these why a good army should consider having some type of psychic defense. It is also because of psychic powers like these why you will see good tournament players who are not running necron flyers or MSU ally in eldar or space wolves into their army.
2. I like the resiliency and shooting of foot-knights. Sure they all died in this game, but had I brought my purifiers, with only about 25 troops at 1.5K, I may have possibly loss even more quickly. And their shooting was just phenomonal despite the fact that Janthkin was making a decent amount of saves (at least for his 3+ guys). The shooting of this army, especially when augmented by my psychic powers, is truly a threat to any army out there.
So despite the spanking I received in this game, I still very much think that my GK build is a viable one. I also had a lot of fun with them so you can be sure that there's going to be a lot more games and a lot more beatings to come before this army is done.
Necrons: (by Janthkin)
Now that I'm back from vacation, a few thoughts of my own:
Honestly, the only things that surprised me about the battle were:
1) Jy2's deepstriking squad (I didn't catch that he was reserving them for that purpose, and it had potential to really swing the outcome);
2) How quickly the Scarabs evaporated; and
3) How good jy2's 3+ saves are!
Jim likes to talk about positional dominance, which is a great term. I never labeled it, but this is precisely the technique my Tyranids used to be successful last edition - if you envelop your opponent, they are forced to react to your movement in their Shooting or Assault phases, rather than moving to the objectives in their Movement phases.
Here, Jim's turn 1 was spent dealing with the Scarabs, and Turns 2 & 3 were focusing on Spyders. By Turn 4, he no longer had the option of moving for the objectives - his forces were locked down, off the objectives, without the necessary force concentration to deal with Necron resiliency.
As to the GK list - the problem is that Strike Squads, regardless of their force weapons, are NOT effective assault units. At 1 attack base, a full squad of them is only likely to drop 2-3 Necrons in a round of assault, and some of those Necrons are going to get up again. Meanwhile, a Lord or Overlord in those Necron squads (or a Spyder) is giving the Necrons a significant advantage.
In the Necron list, my eventual plan involves dropping the Lord, in favor of a Destroyer Lord - he will be a great asset when attached to a Night Scythe-carried Destroyer Lord, as he can enter the battle, soak fire for the Immortals on the turn they arrive, and then go running off to cause havoc on his own. And I absolutely have to get a Gloom Prism back in the list!
This message was edited 14 times. Last update was at 2012/09/03 02:30:36
After playing foot knights for quite a while This is going to end poorly for Janthkin. He's a good player but 40 Strikes at 1,500 is just plain gross.
Add in divination twice and it only gets more gross. Personally with all the firepower the Strikes offer I tend to drift toward Dreadknights for CC support in this edition (plus throwing fire) but in this match up I don't think it would matter much (cept for making it worse on those scarabs).
Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016)
2012/08/27 20:01:05
Subject: 1500 Jy2's Grey Knight Horde vs Janthkin's Necrons
Did all the strikes fire? Honestly it looks like you didn't have LOS to all his bases. Out of site is a rule now, I would have expected it to kick in here at some point.
Red Corsair wrote: Did all the strikes fire? Honestly it looks like you didn't have LOS to all his bases. Out of site is a rule now, I would have expected it to kick in here at some point.
There were a few that the strikers could not see, like the ones closest to the AGL and the ones behind the steps. That was why I needed to shoot at them with the psyflemans as well. Being closer to the AGL and a taller model, they could see the scarabs that my strikers couldn't. It also helps that their shots are Instant-death and that scarabs had to re-roll all saves due to Misfortune, a really powerful power.
Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote: Normally I'd say the Necrons are likely to take this, but given how many bodies the Grey Knights have on the field, then I'd say they have a pretty good chance of outfighting and out-shooting the Necrons as long as they can bring down those flyers. It all comes down to how many 6s the Knights can roll.
Incidentally, why Coteaz as the Warlord? I could never see the use for Coteaz outside of taking Henchmen as Troops or countering deep striking lists.
I figured Coteaz with his 2+ would make for a slightly more durable Warlord than my weaker Inquisitor.
Dozer Blades wrote: Two Divination powers for cheap - really good for a shooty army.
Right. Divination is really good now, especially for armies such as mine.
I'm actually toying with the idea of Coteaz + 3 inquisitors at 2K if I go double-FOC's.
Leth wrote: I am suprised he did not take at least one gloom prism. Tough call but I am going to go with the grey knights. So much good strength fire power which will tear through the scarabs as well as lots of bodies on the table. Also you having a large portion of your army off the table allowing him 1-2 turns of free movement to get close will allow him to counter attack. I am guessing he will put the aegis more towards the middle of the table allowing him to advance towards it in time to shoot your fliers while still trying to get in psycannon range.
I'm playing grey knights BTW. But yeah, my plan is to put the ADL forwards and advance my knights towards it.
Ecstasy in Service wrote: I like you style man, love footy lists and marines are sweet, I will follow this battle to see how the gray knights do and maybe I'll make a similar list.
Yeah, I think foot lists are fun also. Back in 5th, we played mechanized lists in competitive settings because the advantage of mech over foot was greater. Now in 6th, there gap between the 2 builds is much closer IMO (unless you go fully meched or are running necron flyers).
Likewise, I have to work a mid shift tonight and was looking forward to reading it to help kill some time.
Sorry, got a little busy over the weekend so didn't really have the time to work on it. Will finish the report today though.
So, his scythes are made of resin and he designed and cast it himself, I believe. This was the army he brought to Adepticon.
Dozer Blades wrote: I am wondering how you'll play the ADL. Obviously the flyers can see over it negating its cover. ADL I think is not a forcefield so the flyers should be able to shoot down the dreads in short order
I think the ADL is good in a primarily foot list. The quad-gun is ok, but the real benefit is in giving your army 4+ cover against the more shooty armies. And I didn't take it just because of his flyers, which I didn't even know that I was going to be facing when I went to my gaming store. Basically, I just think the ADL is useful tool in a TAC foot list.
Pyriel- wrote: What a juicy target for the doom croisant.
At least it's not a blast weapon. That would've hurt more.
gpfunk wrote: I looked at those psychic powers and thought that this army is a bit eldar like in the psychic powers buffs. Coteaz is the poor man's Eldrad!
Yup. Psychic powers are going to play a big role in the armies that can take them. One of my goals in this battle was to test out just how much of an effect psychic powers will have.
Hulksmash wrote: After playing foot knights for quite a while This is going to end poorly for Janthkin. He's a good player but 40 Strikes at 1,500 is just plain gross.
Add in divination twice and it only gets more gross. Personally with all the firepower the Strikes offer I tend to drift toward Dreadknights for CC support in this edition (plus throwing fire) but in this match up I don't think it would matter much (cept for making it worse on those scarabs).
I'm glad you feel that way. I may not have your confidence/experience with my GK foot-list yet, but I do know how good crons and flyers can be, especially when commandeered by a good general. Necrons are just so often under-estimated despite how good they really are. Frankly, I think this will be a tough fight for both me and my opponent and I am not taking for granted how good my shooting is. I think I am going to need every ounce of my firepower to deal with his army!
Even though the dreadknight is much improved in this edition, I think a dreadknight in a TAC build may actually hurt the army because they cannot deal with flyers (well, not really 'hurt', but you know what I mean). But I will eventually give them a try in my future GK lists.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/27 20:57:50
Hulksmash wrote: After playing foot knights for quite a while This is going to end poorly for Janthkin. He's a good player but 40 Strikes at 1,500 is just plain gross.
Add in divination twice and it only gets more gross. Personally with all the firepower the Strikes offer I tend to drift toward Dreadknights for CC support in this edition (plus throwing fire) but in this match up I don't think it would matter much (cept for making it worse on those scarabs).
Thanks for the support!
Giant masses of powered armor have always had their advantages, in that it's just hard to deal with them. GKs make it worse, as Psycannons are much, much better weapons than Vanilla Marines can field in a similar list. The force weapons are just a bonus.
Remembering the "can't hurt it, can't charge it" rule is going to be important. Here, it cost me a LOT - the plan was to take that gun away from him, unless he wanted to wade in and deal with that mass of wounds in CC. Instead, he managed to wipe the whole unit. Should have hidden a base out of LOS....
Oh - and Malediction is REALLY NASTY. Definitely have to fit the points for a Gloom Prism back into the Spyders.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/27 21:08:20
Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes?
2012/08/27 21:28:22
Subject: 1500 Jy2's Grey Knight Horde vs Janthkin's Necrons
Why give your opponent first turn? I'd think the end-of game objective grabbing gains would be worse than your hit them first with psycannon abilities.
Ailaros wrote: Why give your opponent first turn? I'd think the end-of game objective grabbing gains would be worse than your hit them first with psycannon abilities.
I think it comes down to the way he setup his army. If he grabbed first turn he would have essentially wasted a much needed turn of shooting. With those scarabs dead he can now focus on the fliers as they come in.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/27 22:59:00
2012/08/27 22:41:16
Subject: 1500 Jy2's Grey Knight Horde vs Janthkin's Necrons
Hulksmash wrote: After playing foot knights for quite a while This is going to end poorly for Janthkin. He's a good player but 40 Strikes at 1,500 is just plain gross.
Add in divination twice and it only gets more gross. Personally with all the firepower the Strikes offer I tend to drift toward Dreadknights for CC support in this edition (plus throwing fire) but in this match up I don't think it would matter much (cept for making it worse on those scarabs).
Thanks for the support!
Giant masses of powered armor have always had their advantages, in that it's just hard to deal with them. GKs make it worse, as Psycannons are much, much better weapons than Vanilla Marines can field in a similar list. The force weapons are just a bonus.
Remembering the "can't hurt it, can't charge it" rule is going to be important. Here, it cost me a LOT - the plan was to take that gun away from him, unless he wanted to wade in and deal with that mass of wounds in CC. Instead, he managed to wipe the whole unit. Should have hidden a base out of LOS....
Oh - and Malediction is REALLY NASTY. Definitely have to fit the points for a Gloom Prism back into the Spyders.
Yeah, in a TAC list, unless you are running MSU, you really need to consider some psychic defense now more than ever. Psychic powers have gone from a minor role in 5E to a major one in 6E.
Masses of power-armoured MEQ's have always been good IMO. It's just that in 5E, mech was great. But now in 6E, the gap between foot and mech is much closer now thanks to the changes in this edition's vehicle rules. Now I feel that foot armies are now just as viable a competitive build as mech armies....provided you have some means in your army to get your troops quickly to where they need to be (i.e. outflanking, deepstriking, fast units such as jump infantry or bikes or flyers).
Ailaros wrote: Why give your opponent first turn? I'd think the end-of game objective grabbing gains would be worse than your hit them first with psycannon abilities.
Against an army such as scythe-crons, you can't afford to give them the last turn to contest/claim objectives. They are just too good with that "advantage", just like playing mechdar or DE in objectives games.
And if I had gone first, he would have just deployed his scarabs out of LOS to deny me my shooting. Sure I could have still shot at his spyders, but what I really needed to do was to kill off his scarabs.
Ailaros wrote: Why give your opponent first turn? I'd think the end-of game objective grabbing gains would be worse than your hit them first with psycannon abilities.
I think it comes down to the way he setup his army. If he grabbed first turn her would have essentially wasted a much needed turn of shooting. With those scarabs dead he can now focus on the fliers as they come in.
Yeah, that's another advantage to going second. I can react to whatever my opponent does and it's harder for him to deny me my shooting.
Wiping out those scarabs really took a lot of pressure off my guys.
I actually think that Dreadknights are better in a TAC foot gk list. Remember you can fire 8 snap-shots from your psycannons on the move plus another 16 st5 stormbolters means you should be able handle flyers. The dreads are just easy targets in a standard game.
@Janth
I love you man, you know I do but killing 40 Strikes that put out 64 St5 and between 16 and 32 Psycannon shots per turn is tough. Especially when supported by re-roll to hit psykers and if he gets it the reroll saves power your in for a tough, tough fight.
Should be interesting either way
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2012/08/28 00:36:50
Subject: 1500 Jy2's Grey Knight Horde vs Janthkin's Necrons
My vote goes to the GK's this time (I hate to say it since Necrons are now my primary army).
I think a larger flier contingent would have helped more. I never leave home without at least 2 Doom Scythes and 2 Night Scythes. Kudos on the Scratch builds though. They look good.
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2012/08/28 00:49:57
Subject: 1500 Jy2's Grey Knight Horde vs Janthkin's Necrons
I believe psycannons don't get any benefit from the psybolt ammo. great battle report, I love to see so many grey knights on the same table and that those strikers get to fight, normally their purifier brothers get all the fun.,
If the Dreadknight was an FMC it would be pretty awesome but it in an infantry based list it's a big fire magnet. I'd rather have two psyflemen for the long range versus flyers. Dreadknights can't even touch them which is huge in my mind.
I actually think that Dreadknights are better in a TAC foot gk list. Remember you can fire 8 snap-shots from your psycannons on the move plus another 16 st5 stormbolters means you should be able handle flyers. The dreads are just easy targets in a standard game.
I do see the synergy with the dreadknights and how well they complement this army.
However, things have changed in 6E. You (not you specifically, but 5E players in general) need to adjust with the times, and without enough shooting, you just cannot compete against the current tier-1 builds. My concern is that even with all my psycannon and S5-stormbolter shots, it may not be enough. Those guns are better utilized towards devastating enemy infantry IMO unless such target does not exist at the moment.
Lukus83 wrote: My vote goes to the GK's this time (I hate to say it since Necrons are now my primary army).
I think a larger flier contingent would have helped more. I never leave home without at least 2 Doom Scythes and 2 Night Scythes. Kudos on the Scratch builds though. They look good.
Yeah, I think the more flyers you have in the army, the tougher it is to face. However, if you go overboard, as in a pure Necron Air Force with all flyers, it is a really competitive and also a less balanced army as well. I think the sweet spot is 4-5 flyers at 1.5K and 5-7 flyers at 2K.
I myself would probably only run 5 flyers at 2K.
serotol wrote: I believe psycannons don't get any benefit from the psybolt ammo. great battle report, I love to see so many grey knights on the same table and that those strikers get to fight, normally their purifier brothers get all the fun.,
Right. Only the stormbolters will benefit from psybolt ammo. Psycannons remain unchanged.
Dozer Blades wrote: If the Dreadknight was an FMC it would be pretty awesome but it in an infantry based list it's a big fire magnet. I'd rather have two psyflemen for the long range versus flyers. Dreadknights can't even touch them which is huge in my mind.
That's my thinking as well. Even though their "jump packs" cost a whopping 70pts!!!, I agree with the fact that GW didn't make them FMC's. With 2+ and S10 force weapons, it makes them almost too good if they were FMC's as well.
BTW, a question arose with regards to Malediction powers (i.e. Misfortune) and that is, do you need to be able to see your target? We just decided to 4+ it and I end up getting the benefit of the doubt (no, you don't need to be able to see the target unit in this case).
I believe you do need LOS.
P67, Declare Target:
"If a psychic power requires a target you must nominate it at this point. Unless otherwise stated the psyker must have LOS to his target."
P420 Misfortune:
"Misfortune is a malediction which targets a single enemy unit within 24".
2012/08/28 02:56:30
Subject: 1500 Jy2's Grey Knight Horde vs Janthkin's Necrons
Losing the scarabs first turn is a stiff blow to the Cronz as they could tarpitted for at least a couple turns thus diminishing the overall gk firepower... Instead they gave up First Blood which was a double losing situation. I would have held back and farmed them for at least another turn. The presence of the Immortals could have served to act as a distraction and also allowed more time for the Spyders to advance towards a more challenging position. It'll be interesting to see how the Necrons make up all that lost ground in short order.
BTW, a question arose with regards to Malediction powers (i.e. Misfortune) and that is, do you need to be able to see your target? We just decided to 4+ it and I end up getting the benefit of the doubt (no, you don't need to be able to see the target unit in this case).
I believe you do need LOS.
P67, Declare Target:
"If a psychic power requires a target you must nominate it at this point. Unless otherwise stated the psyker must have LOS to his target."
P420 Misfortune:
"Misfortune is a malediction which targets a single enemy unit within 24".
Cool. Good to know.
In the heat of battle, we didn't want to spend too long trying to research rules. If it took too long to find, then sometimes it's better to let the dice decide.
Dozer Blades wrote: Losing the scarabs first turn is a stiff blow to the Cronz as they could tarpitted for at least a couple turns thus diminishing the overall gk firepower... Instead they gave up First Blood which was a double losing situation. I would have held back and farmed them for at least another turn. The presence of the Immortals could have served to act as a distraction and also allowed more time for the Spyders to advance towards a more challenging position. It'll be interesting to see how the Necrons make up all that lost ground in short order.
And so I thought also. Those necrons are damn tough, that's for sure.
It helped that they were killing about 10 grey knights each turn.
serotol wrote: I'm having delirium tremens, please finish the report, PLEASE!!
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
-5000 Pts. of Orks
-1750 Pts. of Ravenwing 
).
He kills 2 strikers.
's) to cast Hammerhand.
