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 Asherian Command wrote:

Calgar is the greatest tactician of the bunch.

Nope. He stepped down in favour of Dante in Armageddon 2, didn't he?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

Calgar is the greatest tactician of the bunch.

Nope. He stepped down in favour of Dante in Armageddon 2, didn't he?

Not as far as I can tell. Ultramarine forces were present, but I don't see anything that says he was leading them.

djones wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:
Calgar is the greatest tactician of the bunch.

Nope. He stepped down in favour of Dante in Armageddon 2, didn't he?

Not as far as I can tell. Ultramarine forces were present, but I don't see anything that says he was leading them.

Because of his reputation, when it came to choosing a leader for the Armageddon intervention, the Masters of the other two Chapters taking part (the Ultramarines and the Salamanders) unanimously asked for him to be placed in command. Codex Angels of Death, p. 92

Marneus Calgar isn't specifically named, but since the second war for Armageddon took place in 941.M41, and that Calgar has been Chapter Master of the Ultramarines since at least 745.M41 (Hive Fleet Behemoth) and still is as of 997.M41 (The Zeist Campaign), the Master of the Ultramarines at the 2nd Armageddon can't have been be anybody else.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
As much as I like Black Templars, Dante would probably win. 1100+ years of experience, with Logan being closest (IIRC) at 700+ years is just such a huge advantage.

Is it though? Did he get to 1,100 years and think to himself "Gee, I was such a chump 200 years ago. I'm glad I picked up all those new tricks in the last two centuries!"

I'm more inclined to think that the learning curve becomes a plateau after a century or two. Maybe three.

 Kaldor wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
As much as I like Black Templars, Dante would probably win. 1100+ years of experience, with Logan being closest (IIRC) at 700+ years is just such a huge advantage.

Is it though? Did he get to 1,100 years and think to himself "Gee, I was such a chump 200 years ago. I'm glad I picked up all those new tricks in the last two centuries!"

I'm more inclined to think that the learning curve becomes a plateau after a century or two. Maybe three.

I agree, experience difference between 1100 year veteran and 700 year veteran would be minimal at the most. However, living for 1100 years as a "lead from the front" character means Dante must be one crafty SOB.

I cannot, of course, be objective. Where goes my army, so goeth my vote. Tu'shan for the win.

I'm a Black Templar fan, but objectively, I can't see Helbrecht nor any other Chapter Master beating the man who punches demigods in half.

What if said master was shot with something that can turn tanks to slag?

 Bobthehero wrote:
What if said master was shot with something that can turn tanks to slag?

He'd punch the beam away.

 Kaldor wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
As much as I like Black Templars, Dante would probably win. 1100+ years of experience, with Logan being closest (IIRC) at 700+ years is just such a huge advantage.

Is it though? Did he get to 1,100 years and think to himself "Gee, I was such a chump 200 years ago. I'm glad I picked up all those new tricks in the last two centuries!"

I'm more inclined to think that the learning curve becomes a plateau after a century or two. Maybe three.

In which case Dante and Logan are equal to Helbrecht and all the other younger Chapter Masters in skill, making this very thread pointless.

djones520 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

Calgar is the greatest tactician of the bunch.

Nope. He stepped down in favour of Dante in Armageddon 2, didn't he?

Not as far as I can tell. Ultramarine forces were present, but I don't see anything that says he was leading them.

Marneus Calgar and Tu'Shan both agreed that Lord Dante should be the overall commander of the forces during the Second War of Armageddon.

But like most others, it would be Wolves vs. Vampires. Who wins, we can't tell. Dante has the experience, Logan has the brute strength. I really couldn't say, how about we just leave it at, they would never fight

Dante or Logan.

I voted Dante, but can't really argue against someone who chose Logan.

Rulewise, Calgar wins.

+1 For Logan.

Also as a point wasn't Calgars victory over the Avatar more akin to getting slapped twice (so not fast enough to beat an Avatar as stated) and then managing to catch the blade and break it? Although Calgar is cool, I see his victory here more as a fluke and unlikely to happen again if not for plot armour

Ofc this is all an opinion

- Sid

Where is Draïgo...?

Apart from him, I voted for the Wolf. Cool > experience any fluff day. And I stop you right there : a space wolf is cool, a space vampire is not.

imo, Calgar. In game...probably Logan Grimnar.

You all forgot that the raven guard chapter master would win!
No one even knows his name, or what he looks like, or who he is! The rest of the chapter masters would be so confused he would have an easy time beating them all!

for real tho calgar is a chump he can't even keep m'kar the reborn dead...
I mean he's killed him like 3 times and no results! fail...

 Humbaba wrote:
for real tho calgar is a chump he can't even keep m'kar the reborn dead...
I mean he's killed him like 3 times and no results! fail...

That's because he's a Daemon Prince. You can't kill a daemon prince, only banish them back to the Warp. M'kar is the reborn because he keeps finding an new host to respawn into reality. The only fail I see is with your lore.

Judging by the tone of his post, I'm guessing he was being sarcastic.

Sappysid101 wrote:
+1 For Logan.

Also as a point wasn't Calgars victory over the Avatar more akin to getting slapped twice (so not fast enough to beat an Avatar as stated) and then managing to catch the blade and break it? Although Calgar is cool, I see his victory here more as a fluke and unlikely to happen again if not for plot armour

Ofc this is all an opinion

- Sid

He caught its blade.

He had trouble against it sure, but... It's a fething Avatar of Khaine, normally it takes twelve friggin' Carnifexes to kill it or a Primarch.

Let's be real here. In terms of the actual fluff, Calgar's feat of beating an Avatar of Khaine in a deal trumps that of any chapter master who isn't named Kaldor Draigo.

I put Calgar vs Avatar right near Kaldor Draigo vs Mortarion- Wardish stupidness

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Sappysid101 wrote:
+1 For Logan.

Also as a point wasn't Calgars victory over the Avatar more akin to getting slapped twice (so not fast enough to beat an Avatar as stated) and then managing to catch the blade and break it? Although Calgar is cool, I see his victory here more as a fluke and unlikely to happen again if not for plot armour

Ofc this is all an opinion

- Sid

He caught its blade.

He had trouble against it sure, but... It's a fething Avatar of Khaine, normally it takes twelve friggin' Carnifexes to kill it or a Primarch.

Let's be real here. In terms of the actual fluff, Calgar's feat of beating an Avatar of Khaine in a deal trumps that of any chapter master who isn't named Kaldor Draigo.

Except for maybe Dante beating Skabrand.

logan. Calgar got B**** slapped by the swarmlord.

Logan has no feats to imply the Swarmlord wouldn't also beat him. And the Swarmlord had Hive Guards and Tyranid Warriors with him when he fought Calgar.

That said, I did forget about Dante cutting Skarbrand in half.

So it's Calgar vs. Dante. Everyone else is irrelevant.

Dante has a jetpack and a melta pistol, I think he can just dance out of Calger powerfist reach and rely on his artificer armor to stop Calgar bolts.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Logan has no feats to imply the Swarmlord wouldn't also beat him. And the Swarmlord had Hive Guards and Tyranid Warriors with him when he fought Calgar.

That said, I did forget about Dante cutting Skarbrand in half.

So it's Calgar vs. Dante. Everyone else is irrelevant.

You are irrelevant, check the poll and the posts from people,UltraWard fan...

That mindless Ultramarine hate and Space Wolf love has clouded their judgments doesn't change the fact that both Calgar and Dante would beat Logan by feats.

And yes, as you can tell by my Necron username and my Thousand Sons avatar, I'm a Ward fanboy.

Edited by AgeOfEgos

I was going with helbrecht first but i'd figured zeal and skill won't do any good against the plot armor of the ultras so i'm going with Calgar

So both Dante and Calgar have some sort of incredible feat that proves their capability.

Put them on top and the rest beneath that so far.

Didn't Logan fight abaddon during the 13th crusade and not die? Thats one hell of a feat imo oh and the GK grandmaster, defeated Angrons army in the field. He may not of fluked an Avatar, cut up a Skarbrand or gotten beaten by a swarmlord but he's still pretty solid.

- Sid

Logan fighting Abaddon is news to me.