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Recently i have been seeing a lot of conversation on dakka about what to choose for support in footguard with things like hellhounds, LRE's, Medusa's and i made this thread to enquire how effective are heavier AV14 units like Leman Russes compared to lighter vehicles like Basilisks or hellhounds.
In my army i have been leaning to artillery support (Medusas) as appose to LR's since they are generally cheaper than leman russes and pack more longe range firepower which is what i need to massacre my enemies forces allowing my infantry to advance. The tactic seems to have been working well for me but i fear as i expose the list more often people will resort outflanking units who will blow apart the incredibly fragile batteries from the rear where there is no cover for them. In addition, the medusas always seems to attract a hail of firepower which sometimes destroys it even with the ADL protecting it.
Overall artillery faces quite a few big problems including its:
-Low AV -Lack of mobility
-Fire magnet
So upon finding these detrimental weaknesses, i was wondering whether i should give up my Medusa batteries in favor of heavier Leman russes which will be able to:
-withstand a lot more shots
-offer more mobility
-Give a larger range of options
-Add aggressiveness to the army
I'm stuck on which way to follow, even with the pros i have given im unsure whether AV14 will prove as useful as my AV12 Artillery and hellhounds which often come in greater quantity.
Sorry for the vagueness of this post, but i hope you understand the points i have tried to make across
-I like the medusas but sqaudrens are risky also why not have 2 on there own then 1 squad of 2 so you can hit 3 different targets.
-Storm troopers always a nice offensive unit but alot points in those plasma pistols which i say arnt really worth it better spent on maybe camo netting for medusas because 3+ save behing the ageis line is pretty sweet.
-The CCS is eating points id say drop the medic feel no pain wont help to much and isnt really worth 30 points for T3 models.
-I dont see much point in the priest because you havnt got any blobs over 30 so would be a fairly useless in close combat.
-PF in the PCS is wasted because 5 men wont last against pritty much any unit so they wont get to strike 95% of the time.
-I like the plasma CCS sqaud tho it will be very usefull for termi hunting also astropath will mean you getting those stormies in turn 2 which is nice.
-Also morotrs are fairly crap id say with any points saved buy more men and increase the blob sizes so you can with stand some shooting other wise dedicated assault armies will just tear your men apart and then send the medusas back to hell.
Hope that helps.
I dont think i fully agree in many of the points you have presented,
The Medusa squadron is there to destroy heavy enemy targets like Land raiders or a paladin squad, in my experience 2 of them do the job very well in addition i do have three options of where to shoot as only 2 of the medusas are in a squad
Stormtroopers are a suicide unit and will be more or less dropped within 12' most of the time, so i think that the pistols are worth it. having 8 plasma shots rain down on an unsuspecting enemy is an opportunity i would be most willing to take.
About the assaulty command squads they are there to countercharge, a role most of the units in my army cant carry out. Check out Aliarios' battle reports to see that theory in practice.
As for the Mortars, they are quite crap so i might consider dropping them and doing as you advise.
Also if i dropped the Medusas what would you sugget i put in place.
Thanks for the advice
(can a mod please put this into the tactics section i accidentally placed it here thanks )
Ive actually got a few questions rather then advice, as Im barely new in IG building
Anywho, I too wanted to run some StormTroopers, and like you were going to spam fudge the plasma. But Ive been thinking of making them 10man instead of 5, so the hellguns actually kill some things. How well do they work in just 5s? Obviously doing it that way makes it all about the plasma with little hope of much damage from the hellguns, but it just seems a waste for something AP3.
And I too have been back and forth on should I use heavy artillery for popping big tanks/fortifications, or tanks for it. So Im going to be reading this thread intently
A balance of both might work better than solely running one or the other, it also gives your enemy more hard targets to choose between, diffusing their focus.
Something like 2 Medusas and 1 Leman Russ maybe all in a single HS slot, the diversity will allow for a larger range of viable targets and more versatility. The payoff being slightly less shots in each given role.
KingCracker wrote: Ive actually got a few questions rather then advice, as Im barely new in IG building
Anywho, I too wanted to run some StormTroopers, and like you were going to spam fudge the plasma. But Ive been thinking of making them 10man instead of 5, so the hellguns actually kill some things. How well do they work in just 5s? Obviously doing it that way makes it all about the plasma with little hope of much damage from the hellguns, but it just seems a waste for something AP3.
And I too have been back and forth on should I use heavy artillery for popping big tanks/fortifications, or tanks for it. So Im going to be reading this thread intently
Well when you drop in stormies, you usually go for the most heaviest units in your opponents army so terminators (2+ is not negated by AP3) and high toughness models who will easily shrug off Str 3 hits, in my opinion being 15pts a model and having all those cons i dont think extra hellguns suit the role of suicide plasma.
Ovion
A balance of both might work better than solely running one or the other, it also gives your enemy more hard targets to choose between, diffusing their focus.
Something like 2 Medusas and 1 Leman Russ maybe all in a single HS slot, the diversity will allow for a larger range of viable targets and more versatility. The payoff being slightly less shots in each given role.
Having a hybrid is a good idea, the only problem is which variant to take, i need to retain my effectiveness while providing heavier armor.
By the way, has anyone had any experience with Devil dogs, they look pretty good on paper and i could see them running up and popping tanks left back in the deployment zone.
Ok here is what I think.
I don't like the snipers in your CCS. They have to be stationary to do something at all and 2 shots don't do anything. Better go with
Flamers for good counter assault and cheap or GL. Mainly cause your first CCS is more combat oriented.
Do the bodyguards 2 and drop the medic. He is not that good. And he costs a lot.
I like your ST squads keep them that way.
I like your PISs that's how I play them but I don't like PCSs with PFs. I prefer 3 flamers and prob a vox.
I use vox on almost all squads though I play a gunline.
Mortars are a waste of points. I prefer ML and LC for HWS.
Now for the medusa I would go only for one squadron and probably go for a LR.
I think that 2 squadrons of medusas are overkill.
@ KIngcracker
Man I don't like STs in 10 man squads. I think that are not good when you deep strike them.
Probably 10 man squads are better when use with chimeras and outflank.
P.S. I would like to keep an eye on this thread too.
Yeah, i'm probably going to swap to flamers in my CCS however i have had success surprising the enemy with a PF, but i only charge heavily damaged units, which is why i have my flamers.
About the medic, dont you think 5+ FNP is useful, makes everyone a lot more survivable than adding a extra wound.
Sorry if i havent made this clear but there is only one Medusa squadron and the other two are separate.
I will definitely consider adding a Leman Russ and keep 3 Medusas like Ovion stated its going to be hard for my opponent to choose between the tanks.
The problem with the medusa's is not only that that are a high threat unit with a AV12 hull, but they are short ranged for artillery (36") and cannot barrage. In order to fire they have to become exposed. The High AV targets you seek to destroy like a LR can easily take out a medusa from 48" range with twin linked laacannons. Also flyer and mobile units will probably get shots at the medusa's side are which is a squishy AV 10. Remember with 36" range, you will likely have to move up to hit hard targets in your enemies deployment zone.
Dunno mate cause I usually have one PCS with flamers and a vox for order rerolls and I find that a power fist is
Waste for points. I prefer keeping one of my two platoon plain and cheap with counter assault measures.
As for the medusas prob i didn't saw so try three I one and a demolisher or a BT.
I like them both. As for medic the only use I think is for a straken CCS.
My CCS is combat oriented and I don't use medic.
My CCS has 9 models in it.
With AV12, you really want numbers on your side. Lots of armies have stuff that can handle AV12, but bring enough and they will have trouble stopping all of them. aV14 you can get away with taking less, and they are particularly good in A small point game where opponents will really struggle to counter them.
With Medusas, for just 30 points more you can have a demolisher. Consider dropping 2 Medusas and a few other things and get 2 Demolishers- they're much tougher, mobile, and wreck stuff up.
Glocknall wrote: The problem with the medusa's is not only that that are a high threat unit with a AV12 hull, but they are short ranged for artillery (36") and cannot barrage. In order to fire they have to become exposed. The High AV targets you seek to destroy like a LR can easily take out a medusa from 48" range with twin linked laacannons. Also flyer and mobile units will probably get shots at the medusa's side are which is a squishy AV 10. Remember with 36" range, you will likely have to move up to hit hard targets in your enemies deployment zone.
Yeah that are the main problems with Medusa, they are pretty vulnerable which is leading me to think that Basilisks might be a better choice as they can hide behind buildings and lob shells
avedominusnox I prefer keeping one of my two platoon plain and cheap with counter assault measures.
I like to balance roles out with a couple of units, that way if one unit/platoon dies i still have others who carry out the job.
Jerjare
With AV12, you really want numbers on your side. Lots of armies have stuff that can handle AV12, but bring enough and they will have trouble stopping all of them. aV14 you can get away with taking less, and they are particularly good in A small point game where opponents will really struggle to counter them.
With Medusas, for just 30 points more you can have a demolisher. Consider dropping 2 Medusas and a few other things and get 2 Demolishers- they're much tougher, mobile, and wreck stuff up.
2 Demolishers and 2 Medusas give me even balance of AV12 and AV14 while still packing the same firepower, i guess if i want to go all AV12 i need to include hellhounds and devil dogs.
Point taken on the Stormies and keeping them small. I honestly hadnt thought about using the plasma to kill things w/2+ saves as dumb as it sounds. I was simply thinking about how easy those weapons kill things Fair point, I think Ill run them that way as well.
5-man stormies work just fine as suicide special weapons delivery. It's the customary way to take them, actually. 10's can also work, but it becomes a different kind of squad, one dedicated to infantry hunting and sticking around for awhile.
As for medusas. Still mostly junk. Either you take BB's to make them actually good at that one thing you're taking them for (in which case they're not good against anything else), or you don't, and they're just a WAY flimsier version of a demolisher.
As for the general debate, in a foot list, I like AV14. AV12, as mentioned, only really shines when there's a LOT of AV12 to shoot at. Artillery makes a lot of sense in a mech list, but in a foot list, they're going to have 100% of your opponent's anti-tank weapons shot at them, which makes them insufficiently survivable. You will actually do more damage with the russ by virtue of the fact that it will actually get to shoot more than once or twice.
Give guard units one thing to do. They try and make sure you have redundancy for that thing, because your units are going to die.
You want one of those CCS to be fairly static and survivable, to give those critical Bring it Down! orders to your autocannons. I would drop the priest and the power fist, and put the astropath in the first one. I don' t like either the medic or the snipers, I usually put in a lascannon to take advantage of the BS4. This unit is your warlord, you want to keep it alive.
For your other CCS, they are backup for the stormies in taking out terminators or other low AS units, right? So they will be on the move. Drop the standard, you don't need two, move the astropath. You can give the Company Commander a plasma pistol, he has 3 wounds.
Stormies are good the way they are. They will die for the glory of the Emperor!
Drop the PCSPF, you will never use it. Go with 4 flamers in one and 4 melta in the other. I would also suggest saving some points by having 2 platoons of 3 IS rather than 3 of 2.
One HWS will die, quickly. That leadership 6 is murder.
Now for your main question. One of the thing IG do best is AV14. So take advantage. The two best IMHO are the LRBT with HB sponsons and a hull HB, and the Demolisher with a lascannon. The battle tanks stay behind your lines, the Demolishers advance. Your choice, or just take one or two of each. They are much more likely to earn their points than medusas.
beerbeard wrote: Give guard units one thing to do. They try and make sure you have redundancy for that thing, because your units are going to die.
You want one of those CCS to be fairly static and survivable, to give those critical Bring it Down! orders to your autocannons. I would drop the priest and the power fist, and put the astropath in the first one. I don' t like either the medic or the snipers, I usually put in a lascannon to take advantage of the BS4. This unit is your warlord, you want to keep it alive.
For your other CCS, they are backup for the stormies in taking out terminators or other low AS units, right? So they will be on the move. Drop the standard, you don't need two, move the astropath. You can give the Company Commander a plasma pistol, he has 3 wounds.
Stormies are good the way they are. They will die for the glory of the Emperor!
Drop the PCSPF, you will never use it. Go with 4 flamers in one and 4 melta in the other. I would also suggest saving some points by having 2 platoons of 3 IS rather than 3 of 2.
One HWS will die, quickly. That leadership 6 is murder.
Now for your main question. One of the thing IG do best is AV14. So take advantage. The two best IMHO are the LRBT with HB sponsons and a hull HB, and the Demolisher with a lascannon. The battle tanks stay behind your lines, the Demolishers advance. Your choice, or just take one or two of each. They are much more likely to earn their points than medusas.
Good luck with your army.
bb
Fine i will try a gunline CCS, and the 4 flamer PCS but i will still charge! though im curious to know how things will turn out without the two LP+CCW's and the PF. About the platoons i like three as it gives me the opportunity to pass more orders and have 3 counter-attack units. For the regimental standard, i'm definitely keeping it, with the absence of commissars those re rolls are worth their weight in gold.
Aliaros As for the general debate, in a foot list, I like AV14. AV12, as mentioned, only really shines when there's a LOT of AV12 to shoot at. Artillery makes a lot of sense in a mech list, but in a foot list, they're going to have 100% of your opponent's anti-tank weapons shot at them, which makes them insufficiently survivable. You will actually do more damage with the russ by virtue of the fact that it will actually get to shoot more than once or twice.
About the support, i guess i will go for the LRs. dropping the four medusas gives me 540 points, which is 3 LRBTs with an extra 90 points. Anyways i'm going to revise my list and post it up when its ready, thanks for the help
Just something extra, do you think that 6 PIS' are sufficient or would more be necessary in your opinions
6 PISs are the minimum I'd take, but I'd say its sufficient.
And you can take a choppy CCS if you want. CC got a lot worse, but having a countercharge unit, and something that can decisively shut down stragglers approaching your line is a good thing.
1. Your math is all over the place. A platoon infantry squad with an autocanon and plasma gun costs 75pts, not sure why yours are tallying up at 80 a piece. Meltagun and autocannon should only be 70pts. A PCS with a fist, 2 flamers, and the 2 remaining troopers with pistol/CCW should be only 55pts, those stormie squads should be 135pts, etc. Go through and recheck your math, you've got easily 50pts in there that are counted wrong. Is it sad that I can remember all these point costs off the top of my head?
2. A stormtrooper unit with 2 plasma guns and a gunslinger sarge with 2 plasma pistols would only put out 6 plasma shots in rapid fire range. Not 8. Not sure if that was a typo though.
3. Mortars are terrible in HWS's and are one of the few upgrades I actually found make an army feel worse. However, they work great on PCS's since they're only 5pts, and let that squad have something to do while they hide behind a tank in killpoints games. I need to model some soon now that I think about it.
Now, on topic. I prefer AV 14 for foot lists. AV 14 is strong enough that it still shafts most anti tank weapons (Plasma, autocannons, etc) but also has an interesting side effect that I've noticed. It draws fire that would normally try and instant death HWS's. I see a LOT of missle launchers in my area. Guess how many times I've had a frag missle shot at my 100+ guardsmen since 5th edition? 2 times. Guess how many kraks have been shot at my HWS's to instakill bases? Once. They'd rather fire and hope for a 6 to glance on a russ, than try and instant death a HWS right next to the tank. Meanwhile, the HWS's continue to fire and do damage all game. When you're running 6 HWS's and 6 russes, I've found my heavy weapon squads living far longer than they have any right to be. Whether this is bad target priority by the enemy or not I'm not sure, as if I were in that situation I wouldn't know what to shoot at either, but I'm not complaining.
Another reason I take AV 14 is that it gives your army a durable core to build around. Russes can take insane amounts of punishment, and when I need to break a hole in the enemy lines, it's usually some sort of russ variant leading the charge. Weirdly enough, I keep finding my exterminators leading the charge. They just have so many shots and are so flexible, they make a great fire support platform for the infantry to follow. Meanwhile my regular russes sit in the back with lascannons and pound away at exposed squads that have fallen out of transports popped by the HWS's and rogue meltagunners. An AV 12 vehicle simply would not be able to fill this role.
However, I'm looking into the hellhound variants as well, but they're a different role than artillery and russes. They're an agressive element in my army that has proven to be very handy. Like stormtroopers and Marbo, nobody expects a foot IG army to have fast moving, rapid response units. They have a lot of potential, can tie up the enemy, and take a lot of shots that would normally be pointed at far squishier targets. However, whether they're worth their points or not remains to be seen.
And a final aside, I don't see why people take bolter sponsons on any russ with ordnance weapons. While one bolter gets to fire at normal BS, the other 2 will always snap fire, meaning you're paying 20 points for 1 extra hit, if they can all fire at all. I'd rather just take a lascannon on the russ with no sponsons. Meshes with the main weapon more, and will actually fire at full effect no matter what. However, on the punisher and exterminator, heavy bolter sponsons are amazing and I always take them there.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/28 04:42:49
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
Ailaros wrote: 6 PISs are the minimum I'd take, but I'd say its sufficient.
And you can take a choppy CCS if you want. CC got a lot worse, but having a countercharge unit, and something that can decisively shut down stragglers approaching your line is a good thing.
I'll experiment more with the 6 PIS' and see how survivable,if they turn out not to be i can always add in a 20-man unit of conscripts for 80pts.
Turns out when i was making my list i just couldn't drop my beloved CCS and PFPCS' they have done more than any gunline CCS i have fielded
Here is the my new list as of yet
Spoiler:
+++ No Name (1,895pts) +++ +++ 1850pt Imperial Guard 5th Ed (2009) Roster (Standard) +++
Selections:
+ (No Category) + (60pts)
* Ministorum Priest (60pts) Eviserator, Laspistol
+ HQ + (290pts)
* Company Command Squad (135pts) *whoops, had to fix this one, it was right on your list) Bodyguard, Medi Pack, Regimental Standard, 2x Sniper Rifle * Company Commander Laspistol, Power Fist
* Company Command Squad (140pts) Astropath, 3x Plasma Gun, Regimental Standard * Company Commander Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol
* Ordnance Battery (125pts) * Basilisk Heavy Bolter
+ (No Category) + (60pts)
* Ministorum Priest (60pts) Eviserator, Laspistol GRAND TOTAL-1850
Might as well replace it with your list as the format looks way more organized, thanks Moustaffa
The only thing i'm worried about is AV14, my only units that can counter them are in heavy support, i want balance in my army though i'm unsure where to add in heavy armor killers, Lascannon HWS' was my first idea but then i realized they're BS3, easy to kill and expensive. Any ideas??
MrMoustaffa
OK, lots of really wierd stuff I'm seeing here.
1. Your math is all over the place. A platoon infantry squad with an autocanon and plasma gun costs 75pts, not sure why yours are tallying up at 80 a piece. Meltagun and autocannon should only be 70pts. A PCS with a fist, 2 flamers, and the 2 remaining troopers with pistol/CCW should be only 55pts, those stormie squads should be 135pts, etc. Go through and recheck your math, you've got easily 50pts in there that are counted wrong. Is it sad that I can remember all these point costs off the top of my head?
2. A stormtrooper unit with 2 plasma guns and a gunslinger sarge with 2 plasma pistols would only put out 6 plasma shots in rapid fire range. Not 8. Not sure if that was a typo though.
Yeah sorry about that :( i guess i need to stop using mental arithmetic and get a calculator out i dont know why i said 8 though, probably a typo.
Anyways as for the tactics i'm dropping the mortars. And going for the LRBT's you seem to have a lot of experience with them and you have given some great points that really make them quite amazing drawing all that fire.
The Problem with HWS' are i only have 8 weapon teams :( have have 2 more ready to be assembled, so i cant spam HWS' and stil retain the effectiveness of my PIS' Thats why have included some sentinels who can do the job only being a little more expensive.
As for the Hellhounds, i'm guessing if i want to play them i have to field 6, which would be really fun seeing IG run up into your face with 2 DD 2 BW and 2HH will be really awesome. (though i will have to proxy most of them with Chimeras)
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/08/28 05:52:54
Ailaros wrote: 6 PISs are the minimum I'd take, but I'd say its sufficient.
And you can take a choppy CCS if you want. CC got a lot worse, but having a countercharge unit, and something that can decisively shut down stragglers approaching your line is a good thing.
I'll experiment more with the 6 PIS' and see how survivable,if they turn out not to be i can always add in a 20-man unit of conscripts for 80pts.
Turns out when i was making my list i just couldn't drop my beloved CCS and PFPCS' they have done more than any gunline CCS i have fielded
The only thing i'm worried about is AV14, my only units that can counter them are in heavy support, i want balance in my army though i'm unsure where to add in heavy armor killers, Lascannon HWS' was my first idea but then i realized they're BS3, easy to kill and expensive. Any ideas??
For one thing, CHECK YOUR MATH! Your list building program is seriously screwed up or something. You're somehow 60pts over, as the list actually clocks in at 1,910 pts. You also have the problem that some units are far more points than they should be (Your infantry squads are all 5pts more than they should be I.E. A plasma/autocannon squad is 75pts, not 80) and others are far UNDER their actual cost (Both your CCS's are under their actual totals for example.) Here is the list you have, with actual points values.
Spoiler:
+++ No Name (1,895pts) +++ +++ 1850pt Imperial Guard 5th Ed (2009) Roster (Standard) +++
Selections:
+ (No Category) + (60pts)
* Ministorum Priest (60pts) Eviserator, Laspistol
+ HQ + (290pts)
* Company Command Squad (135pts) *whoops, had to fix this one, it was right on your list) Bodyguard, Medi Pack, Regimental Standard, 2x Sniper Rifle * Company Commander Laspistol, Power Fist
* Company Command Squad (140pts) Astropath, 3x Plasma Gun, Regimental Standard * Company Commander Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol
* Ordnance Battery (125pts) * Basilisk Heavy Bolter
+ (No Category) + (60pts)
* Ministorum Priest (60pts) Eviserator, Laspistol
Sorry, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but it's going to be really hard to write a good list when your list writing program has completely wrong points totals in it.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2012/08/28 05:37:36
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
MrMoustaffa wrote:but also has an interesting side effect that I've noticed. It draws fire that would normally try and instant death HWS's... They'd rather fire and hope for a 6 to glance on a russ, than try and instant death a HWS right next to the tank. Meanwhile, the HWS's continue to fire and do damage all game.
I wish I had your opponents
MrMoustaffa wrote:And a final aside, I don't see why people take bolter sponsons on any russ with ordnance weapons... However, on the punisher and exterminator, heavy bolter sponsons are amazing and I always take them there.
Yeah, I don't know if I'd ever take them on a splatcannon russ. The HBs are less congruous with their man guns anyways.
dakka farta wrote: I didn't refresh the page so i couldn't see what you had posted so i was editing my answer and correcting my math in the list. Sorry :(
It's all good. Sorry if I sounded mean, it was just really bugging me for some reason. Would hate for another opponent to do the math (or worse, a TO) and try to get you in trouble for an incorrectly pointed out list.
And at Ailaros, that only worked for missle launchers and other S8 weapons. Autocannons targeted the HWS's pretty regularly, but they never really did much. Not many armies spam enough autocannons to really kill all the HWS's I bring when I really decide I want to spam them
I think the worst I've ever had was 4 out of 6 squads wiped out, and that was against a daemon player who assaulted them. I'm sure that's bound to change soon though
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/28 05:54:45
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
Do you mind sharing some of your lists, MrMoustaffa if its not to much to ask, i'd like to see how you mix in 18 Heavy weapon bases into 1850 and still have room for 100+ guardsmen plus LRBT's.
And by the way when playing 60 Infantry troops (6 PIS) would it be better to go MSU or blobbing?
dakka farta wrote: Do you mind sharing some of your lists, MrMoustaffa if its not to much to ask, i'd like to see how you mix in 18 Heavy weapon bases into 1850 and still have room for 100+ guardsmen plus LRBT's.
And by the way when playing 60 Infantry troops (6 PIS) would it be better to go MSU or blobbing?
Sure no problem, my main list that I was referring to was a 2k list that I ran, but I can probably scale it down to 1,850. Might not be over 100 guardsmen, but it'll be close. But the basic principle is to keep em cheap, keep em expendable. If you think to yourself at anytime "man, I can't lose that IG squad, they cost too much" then you probably wasted points on them. Or at least, that's how I view MSU infantry guard. I also did something not many people on here agree with, by splitting my heavy weapons off into seperate squads entirely. None of my PIS's had heavy weapons. Allows me to be much more efficient with my fire, while I'm technically bringing fewer heavy weapons than one would have if they just bought them for their PIS's.
Here's the original 2,000pts list, single force org. It's what I ran for feast of blades. Had some severe weaknesses though. Killpoint missions absolutely wreck it. The infantry squads were useless as their whole goal was to run foward and eat fire. With killpoints, I ended up just blobbing them and hoping they didn't die. I would not run this list as it sits right now, as I've learned quite a bit since then.
Spoiler:
+++ No Name (2000pts) +++
+++ 2000pt Imperial Guard 5th Ed (2009) Roster (Standard) +++
Selections:
+ HQ + (220pts)
* Company Command Squad (110pts)
Astropath, Plasma Gun, Regimental Standard
* Company Command Squad (110pts)
Officer of the Fleet, Plasma Gun, Regimental Standard
And if I had to run an 1,850 along these lines, I would probably go with this. This is an idea I've been wanting to try. Has more firepower than my 2k list had, and arguably much more flexibility. Need to give it a try once I get some more lascannons built. Note that there are no longer any HWS with autocannons, they all are packing lascannons now, with the infantry squads handling the autocannons. Also note the exterminator, and that I'm only taking 1 stormtrooper squad (often found I never really needed more than 1, since with all the guns a list like this has, very little can hide from it.)
Still needs some tweaking, but this is what I threw together in 5 minutes just to get you an idea of what I like to run. I keep my squads very cheap, especially my CCS, as putting too much extra junk on them drastically cuts into how much infantry you can field. If I have to pick between 4 powerfists and an infantry squad for example, I'm always picking the infantry. Your durability comes from numbers, not from trivial upgrades, from what I've experienced.
Spoiler:
+++ No Name (1850pts) +++
+++ 1850pt Imperial Guard 5th Ed (2009) Roster (Standard) +++
Selections:
+ HQ + (160pts)
* Company Command Squad (80pts)
Plasma Gun, Regimental Standard
* Company Command Squad (80pts)
Plasma Gun, Regimental Standard
* Leman Russ Exterminator w/ hull Lascannon, heavy bolter sponsons
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
TheCaptain wrote: Out of sheer curiosity, Moustaffa, how long does it take you to deploy?
This past week, I really realized; deploying guard is a pain, and I play aircav. I can't even imagine full-foot.
When I'm ready, and have an opponent who knows the rules and is ready to go as well? 10-15 minutes tops. And that's if I'm being anal and making sure I've got full 2" spread on everything.
Usually I can be ready in 5-7 minutes, although that's just guesswork, I've never bothered to time it.
Keep in mind though, I always have a movement tray ready, and set my army up so it's ready to go at the store, before I ask for a game, and organized all my units in ranks by squad. I also try and memorize my list so I know that every squad needs 6 scrubs, 1 sarge, 1 melta, 1 autocannon, etc. so if they get mixed up, I can just grab handfulls and throw them down. While other armies have to be very critical with placement, mine isn't that hard, as I place tanks first, HWS's in as much cover as I can, CCS's near the HWS's, and then fill in the rest of the area with PIS's. I've also been playing foot IG for a while though, so I'm used to the whole horde bit.
However, if I run into an instance with a person who's not ready, or questions my army a lot, or I get distracted with idle chit chat, it can take much, MUCH longer. For example, had one guy who had never played foot IG before, and had questions about several of my units. That deployment took a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng time.
Bear in mind though that I've never timed it, this is just a rough guess.
If we're talking about time to get army out of case to table though... probably half an hour
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/28 07:05:03
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
MrMoustaffa wrote: I've never bothered to time it.
I call.
Time it next time. Start the timer when you open your army case, and stop it once you're completely done. 5 minutes seems nonsensically short.
Oh yeah if we're going from time it takes to open ones case to the time it gets to the table that's like half an hour
I was talking about once I had my army on the tray and we start setting up for the game.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
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My Chaos Space Marines showcase so far: 
5000
2000
