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 Sephyr wrote:

 Gitkikka wrote:
Still going to be $9 + an issue?
If so, they can keep it.

If they actually start churning out real content (army and model updates, real guides for making scenery, bases, conversions, alternate rules for tournaments or variants), I think they are entitled to charge for it, even if other companies offer it for free. I for one will pay for good content with a smile on my face, especially in a setting that sorely needs more frequent updating like WH40k.

See, this is what I don't get.

Why pay for any of that? It's all here on the internet, totally free. And everyone on the internet (that is to say, everyone that hates WD) already knows it. Hiring better staff and increasing the 'content' of the magazine isn't going to change that, and it won't improve WD's sales.

I can't understand anyone getting excited about an announcement like this. What are you suddenly expecting? Terrain articles that are better than you'll find on terragenesis, or Dakka's P&M blogs? Painting guides better than Youtube? Tournament rules that anyone is actually going to adhere to, when there are dozens of established tournament formats already?

 Breotan wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
How many times can a small man with a white beard not be eaten by the 'wolf' before we stop believing him?

I don't think it's gullability, H.B.M.C. I think most people are just waiting for the wolf to kill him and be done with it.

Personally I think he is actually the wolf and waiting for us to stop suspecting the ears and tail. I think he'll be crying wolf for a very long time.

 Pacific wrote:

 Eisenhorn wrote:
I heard this from an inside source two months ago.
This rumor is very likely,WD as of now is crap and they know it.

I would like to confirm Eisenhorn's confirmation ..

Again I can't confirm the source, but heard exactly the same thing several months ago.

Great news, and I think time to break out the emoticons!

Delighted as I would be at that news (and delighted as I am by that cavalcade of happy .gifs) I really struggle to credit GW with the capacity for that level of honest self-reflection.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
... What's Jervis doing these days? A little of his input in the management area would probably go a long way. =P

I think he's sitting alone in his empty office, rocking back-and-forth while whimpering "I've got an Origins award, you know...".

I wonder if it will be less of a figures advert now.

I'd love to resubscribe to a WD with actual good, interesting content.

But...

 Necros wrote:
It's going to take a lot to get me to resubscribe. Such as a cheap price for subscribers, like every single other magazine in the whole world.

THIS!

If they want to be an actual 'magazine', they really should cut subscribers an actual break!

Aside from, of course, having stuff worth reading in it...

 Kaldor wrote:

 Sephyr wrote:

 Gitkikka wrote:
Still going to be $9 + an issue?
If so, they can keep it.

If they actually start churning out real content (army and model updates, real guides for making scenery, bases, conversions, alternate rules for tournaments or variants), I think they are entitled to charge for it, even if other companies offer it for free. I for one will pay for good content with a smile on my face, especially in a setting that sorely needs more frequent updating like WH40k.

See, this is what I don't get.

Why pay for any of that? It's all here on the internet, totally free. And everyone on the internet (that is to say, everyone that hates WD) already knows it. Hiring better staff and increasing the 'content' of the magazine isn't going to change that, and it won't improve WD's sales.

I can't understand anyone getting excited about an announcement like this. What are you suddenly expecting? Terrain articles that are better than you'll find on terragenesis, or Dakka's P&M blogs? Painting guides better than Youtube? Tournament rules that anyone is actually going to adhere to, when there are dozens of established tournament formats already?

A hard copy goes along way. I work in a paperless office appearantly, we print and file paper as much as ever. People (me included) just prefer a hard copy in hand over melting their eyesight on a VDU/PDA 10 hours a day.

Hard copy is bleeding edge portable technology as well and as porn has taught us, you can read it one handed (I hear :')) ideal for following painting articles. It's also robust, cheap, compact, recyclable, and easily available.

So the ideal format to convey hobby information all we need now is content - we're fethed then!

 Kaldor wrote:
What are you suddenly expecting?

Back when WD had real content in it, it was really well made. As in, beating the snot out of 99% of all online content in terms of production values. Some people are willing to pay for that.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
They could just always rehire Fat Bloke or any of the other staff from before it all went to pants instead of sticking with the current useless writers with a new editor... What's Jervis doing these days? A little of his input in the management area would probably go a long way. =P

Yeah somehow very, very unlikely as he and Stallard run Warlord Games and moved back into Historical stuff (must say which I quite like actually)

One problem that occurs to me is that they can't generate enough varied content having only three game systems. WD as its best was during a time when they had several games and were churning out content for all of them. Currently the whole magazine is dedicated to pushing the latest releases in only three games, if your remit is to do that, there not much room for creativity.

I can remember the days when White Dwarf was a gaming hobby magazine, not a monthly catalog for GW alone. They had articles for D&D, Traveller, Call of Cthulhu and even a couple of new kids on the block, Warhammer Fantasy Battle and Warhammer 40,000. I don't mind the GW only mindset, but com'on, let's get back to the Hobby side of the house! Let's see some articles on kitbashing, scenery, painting, and even some fun little optional/homebrew rules we can try out for our games.

 Wyrmalla wrote:
They could just always rehire Fat Bloke or any of the other staff from before it all went to pants instead of sticking with the current useless writers with a new editor... What's Jervis doing these days? A little of his input in the management area would probably go a long way. =P

Paul Sawyer, now known as "PAULUS MAXIMUS", helps run Warlord Games with a few other ex-GW blokes. Jervis writes for WD.

 n0t_u wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
How many times can a small man with a white beard not be eaten by the 'wolf' before we stop believing him?

I don't think it's gullability, H.B.M.C. I think most people are just waiting for the wolf to kill him and be done with it.

Personally I think he is actually the wolf and waiting for us to stop suspecting the ears and tail. I think he'll be crying wolf for a very long time.

Now you've lost me. Who is the wolf in this (overly extended) metaphor?

 Kaldor wrote:
Terrain articles that are better than you'll find on terragenesis, or Dakka's P&M blogs?

Terragenesis? Seriously? The newest article there is from 2008.

Well, here's hoping. Each month I think to myself "that issue was crap, time to unsubscribe" yet still find myself waiting on the next issue coming through the letter box. Seriously, I'm like the bitch in an abusive relationship... "it's ok, it'll all change soon...!"

Let's look at what GW has plenty of, and how they can incorporate that in to WD:

Massive customer base: have a big article on customer armies (and not just the armies on parade advert for "buy our RoBB"). This could include homebrew chapters / forces, focus on painting styles that differ to those used by the GW lot, homebrew fluff, anything you can think of could go here. You could even have 2 customers duke it out and write a battle report on that!

A hell of a lot of good fiction writers: get the BL guys to monthly short stories that are exclusive to the pages of WD.

And other things that I can't think of off the top of my head

All I can say is;

Is it September already?

You can almost set your watch to these attempts at revamping WD.

See you again in 12 months thread.

Even the point at which White Dwarf moved to supporting only GW material, it still had its good days, and (something inconceivable today) there are articles from more than two decades ago which remain useful; on Sunday afternoon a friend and I played Strike Deep, a Space Hulk campaign originally published in #149, originally purchased for £1.95 by my twelve year-old self from the Cheltenham branch of WH Smith one afternoon in May 1992.

Ironically, it's just this kind of content (scenarios and campaign material) which would not only persuade me to buy another White Dwarf, but which might indeed convince me that all this "forging a narrative" business is a genuine design commitment, rather than just a shallow, cynical excuse for poorly-balanced rules.

 Kaldor wrote:


Why pay for any of that? It's all here on the internet, totally free. And everyone on the internet (that is to say, everyone that hates WD) already knows it. Hiring better staff and increasing the 'content' of the magazine isn't going to change that, and it won't improve WD's sales.

Just like the rising of the sun, here comes Kaldor commenting in a WD thread about the printed medium

Please, just go out and buy another of some of the well-written magazines out there. 'The Word' (music mag- not sure if you can buy in Aus?), Total Film, Empire, there is a long list of worthwhile reads. They feature articles written about interesting comment, and that have been written by people who have made a career out of writing well. That, I think more than anything else, is what is missing from current editions of WD. As way of comparison, go back to a WD pre-310 or so and see how much the magazine is missing these days.

Yes, no doubt the printed magazine market has had some grievous wounds from the internet, but at the same time some of the stuff still out there offers genuinely more. Don't get me wrong the internet is a revolutionary tool in terms of providing greater access than ever to a greater spread of content - but at the same time, there is an awful lot of crap out there as well, and sometimes when you get home from work I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I just want to put my feet up and spend an hour reading some quality journalism. The price I can live with (it's pretty much the going rate for magazines these days), but the lack of worthwhile content in combination I think has been the killer for people. And, as the head-honchos at GW apparently think the same, I think it is pretty indefensible on that issue.

I for one am all for a new WD 'Super Group', of the great WD staff over the ages coming back to write content for the magazine.

But the key here is that they write, rather than just show photos of sprues and have more adverts than a copy of Cosmopolitan.

Howard Treesong wrote:One problem that occurs to me is that they can't generate enough varied content having only three game systems. WD as its best was during a time when they had several games and were churning out content for all of them. Currently the whole magazine is dedicated to pushing the latest releases in only three games, if your remit is to do that, there not much room for creativity.

Yes, I think that is definitely an issue! Essentially I think WD needs some money spending on it, in paying more impartial journalists, real hobbyists, to write articles. I'm not sure how likely this will be however.

WD is a joke. Its not a hobby mag its advertising wich we the stupid idiots pay for.

Wtf, $110 for a years subscription? I only save $10 whipy do da day. Wd is nothing but a joke. Can they even fix this pos?

This is like the 4th time now wd is suppose to get better. I will believe it when I see it. Maybe when the pyrovore will become usefull or the second coming of christ.

The more I think about it, the more I just want them to bring back Black Gobbo.

I would buy it if they put articles in from the specialist lines, put some battle reports in where they talked about what they were doing, through in some fun missions, the occasional new vehicle, or something that could start a league going. Just my thoughts though. I was a fan of Paul Sawyer when he did the WD.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
How many times can a small man with a white beard not be eaten by the 'wolf' before we stop believing him?

I don't think it's gullability, H.B.M.C. I think most people are just waiting for the wolf to kill him and be done with it.

Personally I think he is actually the wolf and waiting for us to stop suspecting the ears and tail. I think he'll be crying wolf for a very long time.

Now you've lost me. Who is the wolf in this (overly extended) metaphor?

That is the mystery behind the White Dwarf.

Who exactly is this midget wolf with a white beard, and why is he so intent on hiding worthwhile content from the masses?

I miss the Fu#} out of Black Gobbo.
That was the best hands down

 Compel wrote:
I think I overheard at some point it's supposed to look like the Edge magazine?

white dwarf pales in comparison to edge.


bring back the black gobbo, I say!

 Kalamadea wrote:
The more I think about it, the more I just want them to bring back Black Gobbo.

That was great stuff right there! They had fun articles.



edit.

Don't forget Ty!

I wonder if they'll drop a reveal of an iPad subscription model for a digital magazine. I wouldn't be surprised if GW jumped on that bandwagon 2 years late.

So what is the over/under on what the price 'adjustment' for the revamped WD will be? I'm in a gambling mood.

I dug out a few old WDs from my closet to have a look over. Issue 168 (Australian) was the one I perused to be specific. More ads than I remember, but that being said the articles more than make up for it IMO.

4 pages on the Death Company which include their fluff and the whole unit entry with stats and rules. 14 pages about Skaven, including a map of their empire under the Empire, their entire history, and a few small stories. 4 pages on Marine Assault squads, their fluff, tactics, and full unit entry. 17 page Epic battle report with 90's top down computer graphic map (the greatest battle report graphics ever, search your heart you know it to be true).

There is then 21 pages of the model catalogue for various game ranges. The useful catalogue type that showed the individual bits/sprue, with model ID for easy ordering, and assembly instructions. All conveniently located at the back in a single grouping and completely avoidable if you want. Interspersed between, and even in, the articles are various ads relevant to the entry you are reading. Nothing shoehorned for the most part.

So despite probably having roughly the same amount of ads, possibly even less now that I look at it, it feels far less forced given the amount/quality of other content in there to wet ones whistle. And this isn't even an issue that came with an insert.

And a nice little kicker. Right at the top. It is completely honest with you. 'Games Workshop presents its monthly hobby supplement and miniatures catalogue'. The new ones just say 'White Dwarf'.

I remember when I used to be super excited that a new WD was out. I couldn't tell you the last time that happened. Maybe 3rd Ed Grey Knights, and even then only because it had Grey Knights in power armor for the first time. Which was largely due to my old Dark Millennium nostalgia.

Did anyone else buy those other magazines like Fanatic? Or any of the later Specialist geared ones? I loved those. We need those back. And more things like them.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
One problem that occurs to me is that they can't generate enough varied content having only three game systems. WD as its best was during a time when they had several games and were churning out content for all of them. Currently the whole magazine is dedicated to pushing the latest releases in only three games, if your remit is to do that, there not much room for creativity.

I've not bought a WD for a loooooong time. One thing that might tempt me back is if they actually started supporting some of their "unsupported" games in it; you know, terrain guides for 'munda and Mord, making BB teams from WHFB kits, BFG battle board painting tips, etc.

They tried promoting SG back then, but man was that a half-assed attempt at trying..

Use it as an opportunity to bring back the lesser played games like Blood Bowl or BFG. Someone said GW only has 3 game systems but they actually have Mordheim, BB, BFG,WH, 40K, dread fleet, epic, necromunda, and warmaster. Think of all they could do to grow their other systems!! If you want to increase market share and you are peaked with the other two systems this is the best and cheapest way to do it!!

The other thing is that people want more 'hobby content'. But this is often at odds with the direction GW has taken in recent years which is why I'm sceptical about magazine overhauls. They want you to buy their RoB table and all their plastic scenery kits. Any terrain article will simply be about making one of those kits, or kitbashing several of those kits together.

Terrain making used to be frequently encouraged by describing it as being a cheap and fun side of the hobby. Well they're hardly going to tell you that now and make a point of showing you each month how to make scenery on the cheap when they're specifically trying to sell you kits for the table.