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All through the Horus Heresy series the Astartes have been described as "functionallly immortal"

I prefer to think of it as 10k years of geneseed drift where the first generations during the Great Crusade were more efficient and lived a long time, but now they are not as efficient and can die in a shorter time span.

It also stands to reason that if the first generations of Astartes were immortal then their demi-warp-god Primarchs were also the same. (being closer to the Emperors geneome)

Psienesis wrote:
Either way, the "1 stud = 100 years" has been around for a while, and I think (hope) GW would keep it in mind when designing their minis.

Sorry read this and laughed, i didn't think GW kept anything in mind when designing their miniatures

From what I can gather, the extended lifespans of many regular humans in 40K is due to rejuvenat treatments, which can extend their lives to several centuries. This, though, isn't "normal", it's using an advanced, sci-fi medical procedure to provide youth, vitality and a sort of "rolling back the clock" to allow people to live a few centuries.

I'm cool with the fact that this is a thing in 40K, no problems there, but what we need to establish is the baseline age for a "normal human being"... and to also learn what, exactly, GW is referring to in that line. A normal human being for 40K? A real-world normal human being? A normal human being for the world a given Marine Chapter recruits from? An Agri World? A Hive World? The established average across the entire Imperium (if that did not end up being surprisingly short, I would be impressed)?

brentyboi wrote:iirc in the first Soul Drinkers omnibus Lord General Xarius (third "book") was 110 years old and running around leading the assault. Now in 40k terms this suggests the people at the top of the tree probably have greater than modernday life spans. Maybe going up to 130-150. not the 40-50 of hive gangers but it give a more sensible output of 300-500 years for a boggo spacemarine

Apart from novels quite often contradicting studio fluff - it's true that high Imperial officials have access to life-extending "rejuvenation" treatments. Then again, they are certainly not average humans in this, so I don't think the statement would apply to them.

I think it fits quite nicely in that (some) humans can get rejuvenation treatments extending their lives by a couple centuries - whereas Space Marines just have the very same mechanism already built in by default, resulting in the same longevity. After all, why should it be different when it's all the same Imperial tech?

This could also explain why the Marines in some Chapters and some normal humans might live for say, even 4-5 times the average lifespan when the technology they have access to is better preserved than what another Chapter or another noble has access to elsewhere. I do recall a line in the Marine Codex explaining something like the creation process having become so ritualised and clouded by traditions and superstition that "modern day" Marines are basically of a lower quality than they were around the time of the Great Crusade, just like newly manufactured wargear isn't as good as the old stuff.

Ciaphas Cain is said to be 200+ years old (with treatments)
2 to3 times this is 400 to 600.
Space marines probably train for a 'now' human lifetime.
Getting one out of the training process is a serious investment.

DaemonJellybaby wrote:Ciaphas Cain is said to be 200+ years old (with treatments)
2 to3 times this is 400 to 600.

A normal human's lifespan does not include rejuvenation treatments. That's why he's normal.

Apart from Cain being a bad example in general, but that's a whole other can of worms.

 Psienesis wrote:
From what I can gather, the extended lifespans of many regular humans in 40K is due to rejuvenat treatments, which can extend their lives to several centuries. This, though, isn't "normal", it's using an advanced, sci-fi medical procedure to provide youth, vitality and a sort of "rolling back the clock" to allow people to live a few centuries.

I'm cool with the fact that this is a thing in 40K, no problems there, but what we need to establish is the baseline age for a "normal human being"... and to also learn what, exactly, GW is referring to in that line. A normal human being for 40K? A real-world normal human being? A normal human being for the world a given Marine Chapter recruits from? An Agri World? A Hive World? The established average across the entire Imperium (if that did not end up being surprisingly short, I would be impressed)?

The only probem with your logic, is that means most People aren't normal, as id describe such things as CT scanners and tomographic plates as "sciency medical stuff that prolong life or help to". The point being that id like to think that, alright in some crappy worlds (hive worlds) or those perpetually at war(cadia) life is short, but on other worlds the lifespan is probably as long as the 21st century.

brentyboi wrote:but on other worlds the lifespan is probably as long as the 21st century.

That is probably what the writers wanted to express with that line. There's no point in talking about average human lifespans when they are totally different from what we know, whilst at the same time not informing the reader of the differences.

 brentyboi wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
From what I can gather, the extended lifespans of many regular humans in 40K is due to rejuvenat treatments, which can extend their lives to several centuries. This, though, isn't "normal", it's using an advanced, sci-fi medical procedure to provide youth, vitality and a sort of "rolling back the clock" to allow people to live a few centuries.

I'm cool with the fact that this is a thing in 40K, no problems there, but what we need to establish is the baseline age for a "normal human being"... and to also learn what, exactly, GW is referring to in that line. A normal human being for 40K? A real-world normal human being? A normal human being for the world a given Marine Chapter recruits from? An Agri World? A Hive World? The established average across the entire Imperium (if that did not end up being surprisingly short, I would be impressed)?

The only probem with your logic, is that means most People aren't normal, as id describe such things as CT scanners and tomographic plates as "sciency medical stuff that prolong life or help to". The point being that id like to think that, alright in some crappy worlds (hive worlds) or those perpetually at war(cadia) life is short, but on other worlds the lifespan is probably as long as the 21st century.

Or longer. Its highly likely that there are people with 150 year life spans that don't involve any treatments. They probably arn't in great shape and certaintly won't look young, but they're there all the same.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 brentyboi wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
From what I can gather, the extended lifespans of many regular humans in 40K is due to rejuvenat treatments, which can extend their lives to several centuries. This, though, isn't "normal", it's using an advanced, sci-fi medical procedure to provide youth, vitality and a sort of "rolling back the clock" to allow people to live a few centuries.

I'm cool with the fact that this is a thing in 40K, no problems there, but what we need to establish is the baseline age for a "normal human being"... and to also learn what, exactly, GW is referring to in that line. A normal human being for 40K? A real-world normal human being? A normal human being for the world a given Marine Chapter recruits from? An Agri World? A Hive World? The established average across the entire Imperium (if that did not end up being surprisingly short, I would be impressed)?

The only probem with your logic, is that means most People aren't normal, as id describe such things as CT scanners and tomographic plates as "sciency medical stuff that prolong life or help to". The point being that id like to think that, alright in some crappy worlds (hive worlds) or those perpetually at war(cadia) life is short, but on other worlds the lifespan is probably as long as the 21st century.

Or longer. Its highly likely that there are people with 150 year life spans that don't involve any treatments. They probably arn't in great shape and certaintly won't look young, but they're there all the same.

Only if our genetics change much by then. Currently, we have a built in age limit of 131 as every past 30, our bodies lose 1% operating efficiency.

On the subject of Lifespans wasn't there a Salamander in one the Salamander books by Nick Kyme that had been about since the Great Crusade? IRC he hadn't done much for a while so all his muscles had atrophied but his gene seed was still abnormally pure.

Yeah, he was still alive although he was pretty much a vegatable at that point.

So he was techinically immortal

That'd be the point where people just have to decide what fluff they want to follow. This is by far not the only example of some Black Library novel deviating from what GW says in their books.
As Gav Thorpe said, "neither is wrong".

No, some things are wrongerer than others.

I know how you feel.

 brentyboi wrote:

Psienesis wrote:
Either way, the "1 stud = 100 years" has been around for a while, and I think (hope) GW would keep it in mind when designing their minis.

Sorry read this and laughed, i didn't think GW kept anything in mind when designing their miniatures

Wasn't it retconned that the studs are only a decade now?

DeffDred wrote:Wasn't it retconned that the studs are only a decade now?

What, where? That'd have a lot of Marines sport fully-armoured heads by now, shouldn't it?
I'm certainly one of the more "conservative" users when it comes to Space Marines and battle casualties, but even I'd expect many of them living past a hundred years.

Unless they'd use different sorts of metal to make different studs for different grades of veterancy...

 Lynata wrote:

DeffDred wrote:Wasn't it retconned that the studs are only a decade now?

What, where? That'd have a lot of Marines sport fully-armoured heads by now, shouldn't it?
I'm certainly one of the more "conservative" users when it comes to Space Marines and battle casualties, but even I'd expect many of them living past a hundred years.

Unless they'd use different sorts of metal to make different studs for different grades of veterancy...

I don't know if I'm correct on that, just wondering if I had heard correctly.

I think it may be simple mistakes in BL novels. I just remember getting upset when I read/heard/imagined that they only represent a decade.

Dante must look like Pinhead without his helmet on.

DeffDred wrote:I think it may be simple mistakes in BL novels. I just remember getting upset when I read/heard/imagined that they only represent a decade.

Ohh, Black Library. Gotcha.

DeffDred wrote:Dante must look like Pinhead without his helmet on.

Psst ... that's not his helmet