Ever-living in a squad that gets wiped out (necron)

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**Dragonfodder**

So I am fairly new to 40k- and this came up in a game I was playing

If you have characters with ever-living in a squad, and the squad gets wiped out, do you still get to make reanimation protocol rolls for the characters, or are they taken out along with the rest of the squad?

**Fragile**

Dragonfodder wrote:
So I am fairly new to 40k- and this came up in a game I was playing

If you have characters with ever-living in a squad, and the squad gets wiped out, do you still get to make reanimation protocol rolls for the characters, or are they taken out along with the rest of the squad?

You can make a roll for any model with the Everliving ability. Token for the reanimation protocols would be removed when the squad is destroyed.

**NecronLord3**

Dragonfodder wrote:
So I am fairly new to 40k- and this came up in a game I was playing

If you have characters with ever-living in a squad, and the squad gets wiped out, do you still get to make reanimation protocol rolls for the characters, or are they taken out along with the rest of the squad?

Fragile is correct, it is the fundamental benefit that all Necron Characters have(excluding C'tan). Being ever living allows them to reanimated even if wiped out, though some argue that being swept does not allow the reanimation.

Note: that characters do not allow the squad to resurrect if the basic members are removed as casualties.

**Yad**

NecronLord3 wrote:
Dragonfodder wrote:
So I am fairly new to 40k- and this came up in a game I was playing

If you have characters with ever-living in a squad, and the squad gets wiped out, do you still get to make reanimation protocol rolls for the characters, or are they taken out along with the rest of the squad?

Fragile is correct, it is the fundamental benefit that all Necron Characters have(excluding C'tan). Being ever living allows them to reanimated even if wiped out, though some argue that being swept does not allow the reanimation.

Note: that characters do not allow the squad to resurrect if the basic members are removed as casualties.

The only think I'd add to this that the Ghost Barge has what may be considered a loophole in that even if the character is the only one left, the Repair Barge ability can bring back the other members of the unit.

-Yad

**Neorealist**

That is not the only potential loophole for the ghost ark by the way.

Were you aware if you have a Necron warrior squad with say 5 warriors and as many characters attached to it as you can stuff into it (5 or so being the maximum in a <1999 point game) you can bring back the special characters?

The wording of the ghost ark's repair ability only references 'models' which were part of any given nominated 'unit of Necron Warriors' when determining what it is brought back; and the only additional restriction presented is that they must have been part of the unit from the beginning of the game as you cannot make the squad any bigger than it's initial size.

I'd expect that once your Solar Pulse Lance-teks, Chrono-teks, Despair-teks, etc. (and especially Independant Characters) start being returned to life over and over your opponent may throw a shoe at you though...

**HawaiiMatt**

Neorealist wrote:

The wording of the ghost ark's repair ability only references 'models' which were part of any given nominated 'unit of Necron Warriors' when determining what it is bringing back and the only restriction presented is that they must have been part of the unit from the beginning of the game as you cannot make the squad any bigger than it's initial size.

I'd expect that once your Solar Pulse Lance-teks, Chrono-teks, Despair-teks, etc. (and especially Independant Characters) start being returned to life over and over your opponent may throw a shoe at you though...

Yet another reason to kill the barge first, and be thankful you didn't spam flyers?

-Matt

**Neorealist**

True, enough. The reason i mentioned it as I'm fairly sure that for the purposes of RAI? Only Necron Warrior models themselves should be eligible. (Speculation about why they couldn't write the rule so it clearly states that rather than leaving such a glaring loophole in it is an excercise i leave to the reader).

**nosferatu1001**

Fragile wrote:
Dragonfodder wrote:
So I am fairly new to 40k- and this came up in a game I was playing

If you have characters with ever-living in a squad, and the squad gets wiped out, do you still get to make reanimation protocol rolls for the characters, or are they taken out along with the rest of the squad?

You can make a roll for any model with the Everliving ability. Token for the reanimation protocols would be removed when the squad is destroyed.

Except when Sweeping Advanced, because EL is a special rule that would attempt to save the unit and Sweeping Advance states the special rule must specify it works against sweeping advance.

This is a hotly contested issue, however the pro sides argument is not well founded in rules.

**Fragile**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Fragile wrote:
Dragonfodder wrote:
So I am fairly new to 40k- and this came up in a game I was playing

If you have characters with ever-living in a squad, and the squad gets wiped out, do you still get to make reanimation protocol rolls for the characters, or are they taken out along with the rest of the squad?

You can make a roll for any model with the Everliving ability. Token for the reanimation protocols would be removed when the squad is destroyed.

Except when Sweeping Advanced, because EL is a special rule that would attempt to save the unit and Sweeping Advance states the special rule must specify it works against sweeping advance.

This is a hotly contested issue, however the pro sides argument is not well founded in rules.

Haha, why bring this into another thread

**copper.talos**

In 6th sweeping advance has changed. Now it removes models as a casualty. So EL models have no problem getting back.

**Yad**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Fragile wrote:
Dragonfodder wrote:
So I am fairly new to 40k- and this came up in a game I was playing

If you have characters with ever-living in a squad, and the squad gets wiped out, do you still get to make reanimation protocol rolls for the characters, or are they taken out along with the rest of the squad?

You can make a roll for any model with the Everliving ability. Token for the reanimation protocols would be removed when the squad is destroyed.

Except when Sweeping Advanced, because EL is a special rule that would attempt to save the unit and Sweeping Advance states the special rule must specify it works against sweeping advance.

This is a hotly contested issue, however the pro sides argument is not well founded in rules.

LOL!! Maybe you should just supply the links to the various threads on this rather than bring this up yet again here.

-Yad

**nosferatu1001**

copper.talos wrote:
In 6th sweeping advance has changed. Now it removes models as a casualy. So EL models have no problem getting back.

That was never the issue, and still does not follow the actual rules, no matter how oftrn you ty the same flawed argument. Your statement is incorrect in conclusion, mainly because your premise is irrelevant to the issue

Its here because the question was unqualified - I was pointing out that, while in MOST cases you get to make an el roll, this is not true for all cases

I could link but making someone go through 20 pages of poorly constructed arguments that fail to overturn the sa requirements is not something I would willingly inflict on others.

**Yad**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
copper.talos wrote:
In 6th sweeping advance has changed. Now it removes models as a casualy. So EL models have no problem getting back.

That was never the issue, and still does not follow the actual rules, no matter how oftrn you ty the same flawed argument. Your statement is incorrect in conclusion, mainly because your premise is irrelevant to the issue

Its here because the question was unqualified - I was pointing out that, while in MOST cases you get to make an el roll, this is not true for all cases

I could link but making someone go through 20 pages of poorly constructed arguments that fail to overturn the sa requirements is not something I would willingly inflict on others.

Which is nearly exactly what the opposition thinks of your position. I.e., lack of rules support, false assumptions, etc. Still, perhaps that's a decision that these folks are more than capable of making for themselves.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/810/425505.page

-Yad

**nosferatu1001**

Such as the assumption on your part that a rule and contextual statement can be ignored as they are inconvenient to your argument? Those kind d of false assumptions?

**Fragile**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Such as the assumption on your part that a rule and contextual statement can be ignored as they are inconvenient to your argument? Those kind d of false assumptions?

And the same assumptions on your part. You wont direct someone to a 20 page argument but your more than willing to try to drag people into starting it over again? The OP's questions was asked and answered. No need to create confusion by starting another thread on it.

**nosferatu1001**

It was not answered fully; again, there was no caveat to how thesquad was wwiped out, meaning the answer was not correct.

I also didn't assume I could ignore the written rules because they were inconvenient to my argument, or taking one word out of a sentence context is a valid argument, unlike some. Only one side consistently ignored the written rules

**Kevin949**

Neorealist wrote:
That is not the only potential loophole for the ghost ark by the way.

Were you aware if you have a Necron warrior squad with say 5 warriors and as many characters attached to it as you can stuff into it (5 or so being the maximum in a <1999 point game) you can bring back the special characters?

The wording of the ghost ark's repair ability only references 'models' which were part of any given nominated 'unit of Necron Warriors' when determining what it is brought back; and the only additional restriction presented is that they must have been part of the unit from the beginning of the game as you cannot make the squad any bigger than it's initial size.

I'd expect that once your Solar Pulse Lance-teks, Chrono-teks, Despair-teks, etc. (and especially Independant Characters) start being returned to life over and over your opponent may throw a shoe at you though...

Well, nothing actually says they had to be there at the start of the game, only that it can't take the squad size higher than it was at the start of the game. However, I'd argue the independent character thing (even though I play crons, I don't think that's right or fair). That being said, I really couldn't find a reason it wouldn't be allowed. I think my friends would stop playing against me though if I tried this.

**Fragile**

It was not answered fully; again, there was no caveat to how thesquad was wwiped out, meaning the answer was not correct.

I also didn't assume I could ignore the written rules because they were inconvenient to my argument, or taking one word out of a sentence context is a valid argument, unlike some. Only one side consistently ignored the written rules

Written rules clearly show the length of time SA applies, which you ignore.

Well, nothing actually says they had to be there at the start of the game, only that it can't take the squad size higher than it was at the start of the game. However, I'd argue the independent character thing (even though I play crons, I don't think that's right or fair). That being said, I really couldn't find a reason it wouldn't be allowed. I think my friends would stop playing against me though if I tried this.

Reading the rule, I would say it only applies to Necron Warriors. "Nominate a unit of Necron Warriors within 6" (or embarked on) the Ghost Ark and roll d6. If the score is 2 or more, add d3 models to the unit.... .... This cannot take the unit beyond its starting size."

Since they did not specify which "model" they mean, you would refer back to the previous sentence and see that they mean Necron Warrior models.

**greatergoodjones**

nosferatu1001 wrote: null You can make a roll for any model with the Everliving ability. Token for the reanimation protocols would be removed when the squad is destroyed.
Except when Sweeping Advanced, because EL is a special rule that would attempt to save the unit and Sweeping Advance states the special rule must specify it works against sweeping advance.

This is a hotly contested issue, however the pro sides argument is not well founded in rules.[ /quote]

Your immediate resort to ad hominem instead of trying to argue your point is going to turn people against your position immediately. I understand that this is likely because your annoyed that people on the other thread weren't swayed by your arguments, but still.

That said, the Ever Living/Sweeping Advance question seems to be beyond YMDC's ability to answer, as that thread went over 20 pages and then closed without a consensus, so I don't think rehashing it here will make anyone change their mind.

**Yad**

Kevin949 wrote:
Neorealist wrote:
That is not the only potential loophole for the ghost ark by the way.

Were you aware if you have a Necron warrior squad with say 5 warriors and as many characters attached to it as you can stuff into it (5 or so being the maximum in a <1999 point game) you can bring back the special characters?

The wording of the ghost ark's repair ability only references 'models' which were part of any given nominated 'unit of Necron Warriors' when determining what it is brought back; and the only additional restriction presented is that they must have been part of the unit from the beginning of the game as you cannot make the squad any bigger than it's initial size.

I'd expect that once your Solar Pulse Lance-teks, Chrono-teks, Despair-teks, etc. (and especially Independant Characters) start being returned to life over and over your opponent may throw a shoe at you though...

Well, nothing actually says they had to be there at the start of the game, only that it can't take the squad size higher than it was at the start of the game. However, I'd argue the independent character thing (even though I play crons, I don't think that's right or fair). That being said, I really couldn't find a reason it wouldn't be allowed. I think my friends would stop playing against me though if I tried this.

I believe that this jist of this was focused on Crypteks and Lord. Which if you treat them as Wolf Guard are treated when they are 'assigned' to units, become part of that unit.

-Yad

**greatergoodjones**

nosferatu1001 wrote: null You can make a roll for any model with the Everliving ability. Token for the reanimation protocols would be removed when the squad is destroyed.
Except when Sweeping Advanced, because EL is a special rule that would attempt to save the unit and Sweeping Advance states the special rule must specify it works against sweeping advance.

This is a hotly contested issue, however the pro sides argument is not well founded in rules.[ /quote]

Your immediate resort to ad hominem instead of trying to argue your point is going to turn people against your position immediately. I understand that this is likely because your annoyed that people on the other thread weren't swayed by your arguments, but still.

That said, the Ever Living/Sweeping Advance question seems to be beyond YMDC's ability to answer, as that thread went over 20 pages and then closed without a consensus, so I don't think rehashing it here will make anyone change their mind.

**Kevin949**

Yad wrote:
Kevin949 wrote:
Neorealist wrote:
That is not the only potential loophole for the ghost ark by the way.

Were you aware if you have a Necron warrior squad with say 5 warriors and as many characters attached to it as you can stuff into it (5 or so being the maximum in a <1999 point game) you can bring back the special characters?

The wording of the ghost ark's repair ability only references 'models' which were part of any given nominated 'unit of Necron Warriors' when determining what it is brought back; and the only additional restriction presented is that they must have been part of the unit from the beginning of the game as you cannot make the squad any bigger than it's initial size.

I'd expect that once your Solar Pulse Lance-teks, Chrono-teks, Despair-teks, etc. (and especially Independant Characters) start being returned to life over and over your opponent may throw a shoe at you though...

Well, nothing actually says they had to be there at the start of the game, only that it can't take the squad size higher than it was at the start of the game. However, I'd argue the independent character thing (even though I play crons, I don't think that's right or fair). That being said, I really couldn't find a reason it wouldn't be allowed. I think my friends would stop playing against me though if I tried this.

I believe that this jist of this was focused on Crypteks and Lord. Which if you treat them as Wolf Guard are treated when they are 'assigned' to units, become part of that unit.

-Yad

I know, and I'd agree that it does include them. But I wouldn't think it would allow any other type of necron to be added back.

**AgeOfEgos**

I think the OP received the information he was looking for--and there is a link within the thread to another large discussion on the topic.