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Hi guys, I'm about to start building up a smallish Space Marine army. The initial idea was Flesh Tearers.. or some other BA succcessor. I want the army to be be quite dark, and I'm planning on lots of CSM kit-bashing and stuff. Mostly inspired by this guy http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/431491.page . Perhaps not quite so chaosy. The idea was for a small force that is a little bit unsure of where it is, not particularly trusted, pretty scary and appears from the outside a little close to turning. There may even be a GK allied detachment in the future just to enhance this idea.

I was just wondering if anyone had any alterative suggestions to the Flesh Tearers? Although I do understand their story suits this idea rather well. I'm not the best read historian out there and was curious to know if there are (or have been) any other interesting sounding chapters that suit this plan.

Also, are there any Black Library books out there that would offer any inspiration to this initial idea? I've only ever read Eisenhorn.

I suppose the only thing puting me off just going with Flesh Tearers might just be as silly as not really liking the chapter symbol but I would hate to miss an option to go with another really cool chapter, just because I'd never heard of them or their background.

Thanks guys, hope to here some suggestions.

Well there are knights of blood they were declared renagades by the imperium, On www.lexicanum.com they have a list of renagade chapters.

Thanks. I've had a look. Like the look of angels vermilion. Their kind of secretive, solitary existence. There's not a great deal of background though. Suppose I could just make my own background. Even make my army part of a vermilion battle force stranded somewhere and thought lost or whatever. And no-one's gonna split hairs if I mix up the colour scheme a wee bit, are they? Thinking the red shoulder pads with black trim of angels vermilion with the black helmets and backpacks of the flesh tearers. As long as I stick to the BA Codex in terms of organization, wargear, etc, it's all cool, yeh?

The soul drinkers are a canon chapter that have turned rogue.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Soul_Drinkers#.UEhw_Y2PUko

There are like 5 black library books on them as well. Not bad.

Soul drinkers are interesting. Particularly the chapter master librarian and his "half arachnid form". Can't say I'm thrilled by purple armour though.

Depending how renegade you go, the Badab War FW books might be interesting - the Carcharodons (SPAESS SHARKS!) , though loyal to the Imperium, are also pretty scary/savage, and nobody really knows their plans or motives. And on the completely renegade end of the spectrum, there are the Red Corsairs...

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Carcharodons#.UEh_0kQltzc

alanmckenzie wrote:There may even be a GK allied detachment in the future just to enhance this idea.

This is the part I don't really get - with a Chapter that is at least rogue'ish, the last thing you'd want to have around are Inquisitorial operatives, no?

Anyhow, here's an online version of the Index Astartes article on renegade Chapters that was printed in WD ages ago, might be inspiring: http://redelf.narod.ru/w40k/ia/w40k_ia_renegades.html

Lynata, thanks for the link. With regards to the GKs, I was thinking that they've maybe shown up investigating or just keeping an eye on my army, when all of a sudden it kicks off with some necron, eldar, or whoever and they both have to wade in together, you know?

Lamenters, of course, are BA successor chapter which was declared renegade and later reconciliated with the Imperium.

alanmckenzie wrote:With regards to the GKs, I was thinking that they've maybe shown up investigating or just keeping an eye on my army, when all of a sudden it kicks off with some necron, eldar, or whoever and they both have to wade in together, you know?

Ohh, okay, now I get it.
That said, this would only work (look) good as long as you don't fight other Imperial armies - who will the GKs side with when you're opposed by, say, a bunch of Ultras? Also, even when they are fighting a common enemy, the GK's should be "Desperate Allies" at best as they'd keep an eye on your Suspicious Marines.

Just a thought, though. Maybe I'm putting too much into it.

To be honest I hadn't really though about them coming up against Ultramarines. You're absolutely right of course, it could be a tricky situation. Suppose I'm just looking for an excuse to paint some GK terminators.

And I do like the lamenters. I just couldn't be bothered painting all those black and white checks. I probably will be going down the BA successor route though. That's the codex I've been working from/looking at.... and I think I want some death company. The army's going to be mostly assault/jump pack based I think. It's just really whether to go with vermilion or create something else.

Do people get heat for playing made up chapters using the BA codex? Surely as long as you stick to the one codex, it's fine.

I like the idea of making one up, or expanding on one that's just briefly mentioned somewhere. But I do like a lot of the BA units.

I cant see why not it is rather fun to expand on a chapter that only has a paragraph to it.

If you come up against Ultramarines, well then to you they are just Alpha Legion dressed up as Ultras.

Maybe they are the Alpha Legion... who really knows?

Alpharius does....

alanmckenzie wrote:Suppose I'm just looking for an excuse to paint some GK terminators.

Understandable, they do look cool.
How about simply using those Terminator models and modifying/painting them in a way that you can use them within your Chapter? Maybe it's just the way their custom armour looks. Differences like that exist not only for the GKs, after all.

alanmckenzie wrote:And I do like the lamenters.

The Lamenters aren't really rogue or renegade though, are they? Unless you play them within a Badab War campaign, that is.

Exactly how rogue'ish do you want your Chapter to be? Just skirting the border like the Relictors, or having crossed it and frequently clashing with Imperial forces? As has been pointed out, there are different ways you could approach this.

alanmckenzie wrote:Do people get heat for playing made up chapters using the BA codex? Surely as long as you stick to the one codex, it's fine.

I don't see why. Isn't this how people are even supposed to play Successor Chapters? Why would anyone expect you to buy a Vanilla SM Codex when you want to play Marines from out of the BA book?

Exactly how rogue'ish do you want your Chapter to be? Just skirting the border like the Relictors, or having crossed it and frequently clashing with Imperial forces? As has been pointed out, there are different ways you could approach this.

They're gonna be goodies and fight fiercly for the IoM. They're gonna use the BA or Vanilla codex as opposed to CSM. They're just gonna look kinda creepy... skulls, chains, the odd csm shoulder pad and weapon, those terminator heads with the horns, kinda dark. Maybe appearing a little untrustworthy to your average imperial civilian. Just from a modelling point of view, I want them to look really cool (pretty much plagerising much of the army that I linked to in my initial post). I'd just like to be able to do it while complimenting the look of them with an interesting and (relatively) believable backstory.

 Horst wrote:
The soul drinkers are a canon chapter that have turned rogue. Not bad.

IMHO The Soul Drinker novels are the worst books produced by the Black Library.

I actually had a long conversation about it last night.

I'm currently trying to read it... again. I gave up a few months ago after finishing the first book.

It's just as terrible as the first time. The Soul Drinkers books are the perfect example of how not to write a book.

I have the omnibus and am extremely disapointed by the BLs horrible editing.

Typos every other paragraph, statements made on one page contradict the statements on the following page, completely irrational astartes.... the list goes on.

Ah, as they're loyal to the Imperium, that's not quite rogue and Grey Knight allies are therefore understandable - working together or investigating your 'dark' chapter.

Your ideals sound a lot like Mortifactors ( http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Mortifactors#.UEjNYO7CszE) and Marines Malevolent ( http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Marines_Malevolent#.UEjOPO7CvwE), who may be of inspiration, whilst many chapters such as the Carcharadons, Flesh Tearers and Co. are also feared by their allies and enemies.

The Space Wolves 13th Company had been in the eye of terror for millenia and have been forced to take armour and equipment from the Chaos Marines they've slain, so could also be a source of inspiration?
Heck, even something similar to pre-heresy Night Lords could really fit.

Yeh, exactly Dave, thanks. I'll have a look at the Mortificators and Malevolents. And I hadn't heard that story about the SW 13th. It's an interesting idea, definitely something to use.

I think nerdfest09 paints the malevolents iirc... worth checking out for I inspiration when it comes to painting techniques if you decide to go for these guys

alanmckenzie wrote:I'll have a look at the Mortificators and Malevolents.

Maybe this'll be of interest then:

http://web.archive.org/web/20070328200451/http://www.armageddon3.com/English/Campaign/Troops/mortifactors.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20070404114823/http://www.armageddon3.com/English/Campaign/Troops/malevolent.html

Hey guys.

Don't know if anyone's still subscribed here but I thought I'd let you know what I decided. Ended up just going with a BA successor but invented my own, Angels Amaranthine. The idea briefly is that they are a 3rd founding chapter who were thought destroyed early in their history.

My bit of background is explained here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/481889.page and the P&M blog is here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/488077.page

I'd love to here your thoughts and opinions. And thaks again for all your input on this thread.

Cheers

Alan

have you taken a look at these guys?

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Legion_of_the_Damned

This is my army and i love their story, i have added a little fan fiction to them to make it work but come together nicely.

Quick little background on them is that they where once the fire hawk chapter, a successor chapter to the ultra marines. Their fleet was caught in a warp storm and most of the chapter was destroyed, only about 200 survived. The fire hawks were presumed dead and so the survivors turned into the legion of the damned. The survivors where blasted with warp energy which gave all the remaining members some pycker ability's, not like a librarian but enough to scenes things. Also all of their gene seeds where corrupted or destroyed so they can not longer clone or grow more members. Because of this they know they are a doomed chapter, so they go around showing up when they are needed most in a battle, steam roll the enemy they vanish with out a trace, or very little trance. They might leave a banner to let them know who saved them. This is all confirmed cannon fluff for them, also all their armor is black with flames and skulls.

So they are basically a chapter that fights for the imperium but they fight on their own schedule, they fight just to kill any thing that is not a human. I like to think of them as the very essence of the emperors vengeance and rage.

Fan fiction i added to suit my needs is as follows.

Headed by the head chaplain, since he was the highest ranking member that lived, and term chaplain armor = bad ass LotD unit.
Their base of operation is their last battle barge.
since they can not grow or clone any more space marines to get new members they recruit from battle fields. So if they arrive on a planet that is under attack and they are helping lets say BA. As they steam roll across the battle field if they find a wounded BA the head chaplain offer him a deal.
You will be allowed to die a noble death on the battle field, or we will give you a second chance to fight for the emperor, but you must denounce all former pacts and bonds. If they agree The head chaplain reads his rites while 2 apothocarys mend his wounds and strip his armor of color and badges. The new recruit is then taken back to their battle barge and then assigned to a unit that they are best suited for. BA become assault marine, or assault term's, Ultra marines become either scouts, tac, or devastator marines, dark angles become assault terms, terms or bikers, and other chapters are place where they are suited best. this allows for a very divers group of warriors with skills in every thing and makes it harder to track the legion origins.

Yeh, you used to be able to take a LotD squad as a special unit in my old 2nd ed Ultramarines codex. I like how you've taken that and made your whole army from them.

I remember when they released the LotD squad. There was a wd article about how they sculpted the little bones ant things and stuck them on normal tactical marines. Always liked them but never got round to buying them. They might actually have been limited release iirc.

you can still take LotD units, only thing is they are elite and not that great but they are still there. and if you are lucky enough, or have enough cash, you can get centrius but he is minimum 80 buck+trying to find rules for him sucks.

They where a limited release, but what im doing is just painting tac marines with flames and you cen get some green stuff to sculpt bones. + you can use the current LotD legionairs as srg. although a original LotD tac squad would be kick as, really want 2 of them, i only run with 2 tac squads any way in my 2k army.

There's always the Red Corsairs. Space Pirate Marines and their smuggler buddies.

There haven't been rules for Centurius for YEARS, anything you did find would likely be irrelevant now anyway.

Model wise, LOTD would be good but can get costly - might I suggest picking up a box of Death Company to mix in with other kits? They feature lots of skulls and also a chambered set of legs and chest much like the LOTD Sergeant's.