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I'm playing a game this weekend and thought I'd try my flayed ones (I have 14, might be able to proxy some extra).

Any ideas of how to use them? And please don't reply if all you have to say is that FO's are worthless (I've heard that to many times aleady).

Take them, place them back in the case.
Jokes aside, hm, you could use them with Immotehk's bloodswarm scarabs to deep strike them next to something really shooty (ex Tau Broadsides) and have them either get ignored and then drown their enemy in attacks, or soak up a bunch of damage, and leave the rest of your army in good shape to deal damage in other ways

Obyron lets your Flayed Ones deepstrike first turn for a second turn assault and brings enough CC to tip the combat.

Flayed ones are, like most melée oriented necron units, either a shield or a distraction. Deepstriking grants them a small amount of tactical flexibility if you're good with your rolls over scarabs/lychguard/wraiths, though lack of the praets' "hi there so AP 1 how d'you feel about that?" attack puts them at a bit of a disadvantage. I usually go with 6 (I have 3 packs of the metal ones) and pop them up either near a vulnerable unit or in front of a vulnerable unit at risk from a big enemy cc nasty. They pop out, wave their arms and go "Lets get this party staaaarteeed!" and then either eat firepower that would be slaughtering my other units, eat the wrath of a melée blob or death star, or get ignored and get a chance to charge in and do a little damage.

With your number, I'd run two small groups, hoping to strike in at the same turn. Small points investment, big old disruption potential.

Disclaimer: I'm not a necron player.

I'd use them in one of two ways.
1st: Assassin/Disruption Unit: Basically you D/S them (1st turn as suggested) and target a powerful shooting unit. Strike and even if you don't kill them you get time for your powerful shooting to target other things and not be hit so hard so early. Tau Broadsides are a good target for this. Same with Long fangs or SM Devs or sternguard. With the latter choices you're not likely to WIN the combat. But that's not your goal. If you win that's a plus, but you want to disrupt and stop the unit from performing the function it is supposed to do. This buys you time. This is what you do against a shooting base army (like tau) because the other strategy will be useless against tau (being a tau strategy).
2nd: Guerrilla/ Speed bump unit: This is for dealing with assault armies. Now...from my understanding Newcrons are good with midrange and long range fire. You can hold your own in assault just fore being as durable as hell but certainly not against a major assault army. Basically.. deploy the Flayed ones in your zone and have them stay hidden and guard your shooting units. When an assault unit starts getting close, try to get the FO's close enough to assault. If not, bubblewrap the unit that will be assaulted. This might not be the best option... Considering Overwatch with necron guns + base assault might be better (probably) than Flayed ones base assault....The goal with this tactic is to keep your guns shooting. Assault doesn't let your guns shoot...and could kill/sweep them. You want your guns shooting. I'd rather some flayed ones get killed just to have the assault unit standing around in the open afterward for all my dakka.


Tl;DR : Against shooting armies, DS and assault powerful shooting units to stop them from shooting. Against assault, counter assault assault units to stop them from disrupting your shooting units. Don't expect to win the assault. Its cool if you do, but don't expect it. Your goal is just to keep your army alive and disrupt theirs. You're doing that so long as they survive a round or two of combat.

They are a pain in the ass if they have a destroy lord DS with them. They can take out long range heavy supports pretty easily with a warscythe helping out.

Best use for them I can see is deep strike/infiltrate and use as harassment unit. Your opponent ignores them, good, use them to assault some shooting unit in the back, even if they can't kill them, they might be able to tie the shooting unit up. If your opponent got distracted and moved to dispatch them, then your main force has just been spared from some shootings.

Just make sure they aren't gonna end up being a stepping stone for an assault unit to consolidate toward you.

To me, Flayed Ones have three uses. The first is to DS/Infiltrate and target a shooty squad dedicated to dealing with MEQ targets or tougher (Plasma Squads, Broadsides, etc). The second is as a diversion unit. You deep strike them somewhere where your opponent has to choose between either spending a turn removing them, or risk being tied up by a large, resilient unit. The third is tarpitting. Flayed Ones have 4+ armour, RP, LD10, and can be taken in squads of 20. Even with I2, the shear number of attacks they have means that they might still be able to make enough wounds to tie the combat, and when combined with their durability they should be able to keep a unit tied up and taking melee losses for at least a couple of turns.

All good advice, particularly RegalPhantom's above.

The most critical thing about using Flayed Ones is keeping in mind you can basically deploy them where ever you want. So, you should always react to your opponents deployment with them. If they left enough room on a flank, or if their is some good LOS blocking terrain somewhere, you probably want to Infiltrate them. If they deployed in a relatively central location, then you will likely either Outlfank with them or DS with them, depending on what you need them to do for the rest of your army.

Outside of deployment, which is huge, then next best advice I can give is you don't have to kill things with them for them to be very useful. In objective or quarter based games, it's perfectly reasonable and effective to outflank into some area terrain on or near an objective, gown to ground, and just eat bullets till turn 4 or 5. If you are playing a predominantly shooty army (which face it, you generally are), people won't want to go anywhere near them, and will prefer to try to take them out at range. With a lot of bodies, T4, 3+ Cover save (assuming gtg, or Night Fighting) and RP, you'll soak up the lions share of fire power. Or they might just ignore you, meaning they will have concede an objective/quarter to you. Which is perfectly fine.

Size comes down to how you want to use them. If all you want is a backfield heavy support harassment unit, or a CC speed bump protecting your Warriors, the small squad does perfectly fine. Don't be afraid to assault pewpew based Dreads with a small squad. You might not be able to hurt him, but he really can't hurt you either.

Large squads are your area denial tarpits. Spread them out, grab as much cover as you can, and eat bullets. Threaten, threaten, threaten. The more you get them focusing on the Flayed Ones jab, the less likely they are to see the haymaker coming around the other corner.

With DLords, personally, I advise using them as a back up option. I like running my DLord with a Res Orb and some Triarchs. If the Triarchs die on the way up the field I will hop my DLord over to the Flayed Ones. Generally works pretty well.

Lastly, in the brave new world of 6th edition, they eat any AV 10 rear armor vehicle for breakfast, needing on average about 8 bases (or 10 bases per on a multi-assault) to take out one on the assault. You'll face a lot of opponents who don't realize this. Use it to your advantage. This combined with LD 10 means they laugh whole heatedly at tank shocks. Pray your opponent is dumb enough to try to employ this strategy against them.

In short, deployment really makes or breaks this unit. I like to call my large squad my surgical shot gun. Get adept at finding the best place for them in each mission, and you'll quickly learn to appreciate how all their bad press is based off of pre-concieved notions by people who (generally) never ever actually learn how to use them.

Perty display.

Paper weights?


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No seriously. DS them next to your opponents mandrakes and assault them next turn.

I got line breaker last night with a small unit of them. Infiltrated to a ruin and stayed their all game.

Think the infiltrating idea seems good, though I don't think you can charge first turn if you do? Obyron seems like a valid option to, might try it out.

More advices?

scimitar wrote:
Obyron lets your Flayed Ones deepstrike first turn for a second turn assault and brings enough CC to tip the combat.

First, you're thinking of Zahndrekh. Second, his ability only allows you to bring in any number of deep striking units on the board in a turn which your opponent arrives from reserves. So really it would only be useful against drop podders for first turn.

Me... wrote:Think the infiltrating idea seems good, though I don't think you can charge first turn if you do? Obyron seems like a valid option to, might try it out.

More advices?

You can assault if you rolled second.

Kevin949 wrote:

scimitar wrote:
Obyron lets your Flayed Ones deepstrike first turn for a second turn assault and brings enough CC to tip the combat.

First, you're thinking of Zahndrekh. Second, his ability only allows you to bring in any number of deep striking units on the board in a turn which your opponent arrives from reserves. So really it would only be useful against drop podders for first turn.

May be he meant ghostwalk mantle, because unless your opponent deepstrike with drop pods, I don't think many army can roll reserves on 1st turn? But then, a despairtek would be cheaper with veil of darkness...

Baronyu wrote:

Me... wrote:Think the infiltrating idea seems good, though I don't think you can charge first turn if you do? Obyron seems like a valid option to, might try it out.

More advices?

You can assault if you rolled second.

Kevin949 wrote:

scimitar wrote:
Obyron lets your Flayed Ones deepstrike first turn for a second turn assault and brings enough CC to tip the combat.

First, you're thinking of Zahndrekh. Second, his ability only allows you to bring in any number of deep striking units on the board in a turn which your opponent arrives from reserves. So really it would only be useful against drop podders for first turn.

May be he meant ghostwalk mantle, because unless your opponent deepstrike with drop pods, I don't think many army can roll reserves on 1st turn? But then, a despairtek would be cheaper with veil of darkness...

Only if they're on the board from the start, nothing but drop pods lets you come in on turn 1 (barring any odd special scenario rules), and by extension the rule that zahndrekh has. But that specifically requires your opponent to have the ability to come in turn 1 and his ability only allows deep strikers (which obyron is NOT doing and if he's joined, then neither are the flayed ones).

 iGuy91 wrote:
Take them, place them back in the case.
Jokes aside, hm, you could use them with Immotehk's bloodswarm scarabs to deep strike them next to something really shooty (ex Tau Broadsides) and have them either get ignored and then drown their enemy in attacks, or soak up a bunch of damage, and leave the rest of your army in good shape to deal damage in other ways

While what he first says is funny, it really is what I would do. I really beleive Necron Warriors would be better for the points, but if you must use your Flayed Ones, do what he said. Immotekh, Bloodswarm nano-scarabs and get them stuck in with something shooty and squishy.

Only if they're on the board from the start, nothing but drop pods lets you come in on turn 1 (barring any odd special scenario rules), and by extension the rule that zahndrekh has. But that specifically requires your opponent to have the ability to come in turn 1 and his ability only allows deep strikers (which obyron is NOT doing and if he's joined, then neither are the flayed ones).

Obviously he meant starting them on the board first, and them DS them in the movement phase.


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 Exergy wrote:
Paper weights?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
No seriously. DS them next to your opponents mandrakes and assault them next turn.

Heh, that's pretty awesome. I know you're just messing around but that real speaks to the overall issue of flawed perception in my mind. Kommandos, Mandrakes, Flayed Ones, even Genies to some extent...really most CC based infiltrators are poorly rated by most, and I think it speaks more to peoples unfamiliarity with the optimal use of the mechanic. Deployment is pretty the most important aspect of the game, and unit with flexible deployment (and there is no unit with more flexible deployment then Flayed Ones) are a huge tool in your tool box if you know how to swing it.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Heh, that's pretty awesome. I know you're just messing around but that real speaks to the overall issue of flawed perception in my mind. Kommandos, Mandrakes, Flayed Ones, even Genies to some extent...really most CC based infiltrators are poorly rated by most, and I think it speaks more to peoples unfamiliarity with the optimal use of the mechanic. Deployment is pretty the most important aspect of the game, and unit with flexible deployment (and there is no unit with more flexible deployment then Flayed Ones) are a huge tool in your tool box if you know how to swing it.

Share your wisdom with us then.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Only if they're on the board from the start, nothing but drop pods lets you come in on turn 1 (barring any odd special scenario rules), and by extension the rule that zahndrekh has. But that specifically requires your opponent to have the ability to come in turn 1 and his ability only allows deep strikers (which obyron is NOT doing and if he's joined, then neither are the flayed ones).

Obviously he meant starting them on the board first, and them DS them in the movement phase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Exergy wrote:
Paper weights?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
No seriously. DS them next to your opponents mandrakes and assault them next turn.

Heh, that's pretty awesome. I know you're just messing around but that real speaks to the overall issue of flawed perception in my mind. Kommandos, Mandrakes, Flayed Ones, even Genies to some extent...really most CC based infiltrators are poorly rated by most, and I think it speaks more to peoples unfamiliarity with the optimal use of the mechanic. Deployment is pretty the most important aspect of the game, and unit with flexible deployment (and there is no unit with more flexible deployment then Flayed Ones) are a huge tool in your tool box if you know how to swing it.

Well it wasn't really obvious since he said that obyron lets them deep strike 1st turn, which is not true. They supplant their standard movement and utilize the deep strike rules for being placed anywhere on the board, but they are not deep striking.

Well it wasn't really obvious since he said that obyron lets them deep strike 1st turn, which is not true. They supplant their standard movement and utilize the deep strike rules for being placed anywhere on the board, but they are not deep striking.

Right on. That kind of seemed like what he meant to me but I can see the reason for the clarification.

Share your wisdom with us then.

Well, see above. And the 8+ page thread I started on the topic during 5th. But as I said before, more often then not I utilize them to deny an objective/quarter in my opponents deployment zone. Deploy them in the manner that will give them the safest path to where you want them to go, and the most coordinated point of impact with the rest of your army (ie, so they are a threat at the same time as everything else), and let them do their thing. If you have viable CC targets, take them out. If not, get to a piece of area terrain, or even better some LOS blocking terrain, spread out as much as possible to widen your threat range, and camp. If they line up to dedicate a lot of firepower at them, go to ground and eat bullets. Lots of them. 15 to 20 bases with a 3+ or 2+ cover save and RP can eat an armies worth of firepower and not get wiped. And, although there are certainly CC units that are problematic for Flayed Ones, the fact is that most people don't take more then one or two of such units, and if you can get your opponent to send them at the Flayed Ones you will substantially delay them from threatening any of your squishy Warriors or Immortals, not too mention whittling them down quite a bit in the process.

You just have to get out of the mindset of "a unit must be killing things to be contributing." Play to the mission, and understand how the Flayed Ones are contributing to the missions goals, and you'll start to appreciate them more. Now, that is not to say the Flayed Ones won't be killing things. If your opponent pushes things into their threat range, which will often be vehicles, assault them and take them out. Use the vehicles to block off return fire. You'll also find their presence restricts the real estate your opponent's troops will play in. If you have DLords/Triarchs/Wraiths/Scarabs/Spyders, this is a fantastic way of keeping them contained.

It's somewhat difficult to paint it all with a broad brush because it's largely dependent on each individual lists dynamics. What your opponent is capable of, and the holes he leaves in his deployment zone, will largely dictate how you should respond with the Flayed Ones.

The problem with flayed one and similar units is really that... They're overcost for what they can do; I'm not saying what you said is untrue, ShadarLogoth, that's how I'd run them if I had them in my list as well; and they most usually compete with better units for the limited slots, if GW would consider the fact that they're using the very limited slots and lower their point cost, they might be worth considering, as it would then allow for more units to be brought in other slots instead, with the exception of the few armies out there that everything good is in one slot. Or may be move them to the less desirable slots, for example, DE(sorry, I know more about DE than necrons), FA is usually our final point fillers slot, after we've filled troops, elites, heavies and probably HQ as well, so if mandrakes were FA unit, I'd be more willing to give them a go, but to lose trueborns, incubi, grotesques, or harlies isn't a price I'm willing to pay.

And speaking of "price", I'd say the main problem is really that... You'd have to buy them in order to try those tactics, and I think I'd rather go with the tried and tested units... Unless I have the spare moneys.

Baronyu wrote:
The problem with flayed one and similar units is really that... They're overcost for what they can do; I'm not saying what you said is untrue, ShadarLogoth, that's how I'd run them if I had them in my list as well; and they most usually compete with better units for the limited slots, if GW would consider the fact that they're using the very limited slots and lower their point cost, they might be worth considering, as it would then allow for more units to be brought in other slots instead, with the exception of the few armies out there that everything good is in one slot. Or may be move them to the less desirable slots, for example, DE(sorry, I know more about DE than necrons), FA is usually our final point fillers slot, after we've filled troops, elites, heavies and probably HQ as well, so if mandrakes were FA unit, I'd be more willing to give them a go, but to lose trueborns, incubi, grotesques, or harlies isn't a price I'm willing to pay.

And speaking of "price", I'd say the main problem is really that... You'd have to buy them in order to try those tactics, and I think I'd rather go with the tried and tested units... Unless I have the spare moneys.

Very fair point on the Mandrakes, DE definitely have a lot of competition on the Elite slot. With crons though, the Elite is last to be filled for most people, so that is less of an issue. Also excellent point on price. Honestly, I think that has more to do with it then anything. 20 Finecast Flayed Ones costs like 200 bucks. People will look for all sorts of reasons to justify NOT spending 200 bucks on a unit they are unsure about. To make matters worse, the FC models are generally not viewed in a good light.

I've had 20 metals since they first dropped in 2002, and only cost me about 80 bucks to accumulate. I think always having them to play with has made a big difference.

As far as the overcosted point wise, I just find that to not really be the case, as they pack their deployment with them. You don't need to buy a transport for them. They start off on the board right where you need them to be. I think it's to easy to overlook how incredible flexible deployment options are and just math hammer them out point for point against units that are basically worthless without some additional points invested into making them move.

Since I agree that FO's are really expensive (in money, not in pts), I'll probably try to make some additional by left-over bits. That's actually how I made 8 of what I have, they look like weird dinosaurs XD.

However, what I enjoy about them is their flexibility. They can deploy just about anywhere on the board and disrupt the enemies tactics. And if the enemy is aware of the full threat of the Flayed Ones, they will have to deploy all over their deployment zone to keep the FO's out, and if that isn't annoying, I don't know what is. That's why I wanted to run them. I just needed some additional tactic advice. So why not keep this thread moving? Any other advices?

For me, they're a bit overcost for what they can do, sure, they can do the tactics mentioned, but they're still rather weak, if I'm sacrificing a better unit's slot for them, I'd want to have more points to spend on some other unit to balance out the loss. A 10-men mandrakes unit cost as much as a standard blasterborn, but not bringing as much in(sorry, DE again)! FO is a bit better, at least the slot isn't as competed, and they only cost as much as a warriors blob, but again, do you want more gauss flayer, or an S4 I2 assault unit?

As for transports, well, can't speak for every army again, but DE-wise, an extra venom/raider is better than anything(see: venom spam)! And for necrons, though a bit high cost, you could join in the flyer fun with another NS, I heard they're all the rage right now!

By the way, how well do they fare against assault armies? I can see them being threatening to a shooting army, but against an assault army, wouldn't they just be a stepping stone for them the assault army to consolidate on, may be losing 2 or 3 models at most?

Baronyu wrote:
For me, they're a bit overcost for what they can do, sure, they can do the tactics mentioned, but they're still rather weak, if I'm sacrificing a better unit's slot for them, I'd want to have more points to spend on some other unit to balance out the loss. A 10-men mandrakes unit cost as much as a standard blasterborn, but not bringing as much in(sorry, DE again)! FO is a bit better, at least the slot isn't as competed, and they only cost as much as a warriors blob, but again, do you want more gauss flayer, or an S4 I2 assault unit?

As for transports, well, can't speak for every army again, but DE-wise, an extra venom/raider is better than anything(see: venom spam)! And for necrons, though a bit high cost, you could join in the flyer fun with another NS, I heard they're all the rage right now!

By the way, how well do they fare against assault armies? I can see them being threatening to a shooting army, but against an assault army, wouldn't they just be a stepping stone for them the assault army to consolidate on, may be losing 2 or 3 models at most?

I don't know, 60-80 attacks (assuming best case scenario) is a lot of stuff to put on one squad. Especially if you have a d.lord (I hate using extra units in examples) to allow re-rolls of 1's.

In most situations though you can pretty much bet you're getting 25-50% less output than that first turn. More often than not, you'll be getting about 30% less attacks out of what ever size your flayed ones currently are. I say this due to their low initiative, low armor save. This is also assuming you're putting them up against other assault based units. If you have them hunt shooty units (which you should), they'll most likely be down a few guys prior to getting to them and you'll maybe lose 3 or 4 guys before you get to strike assuming now power weapons in the shooty unit.

I do not, unfortately, have a DLord yet. Will probably get one though, they seem great.

Baronyu: As for the comparison (gauss vs I2 assault) that doesn't include the deployement options, wich is the reason I think they seem pretty nice. I never go flyer spam either, btw, I don't even have one yet. Might get 1 or 2, though, for the maneuverability.

And 60-80 attacks is pretty massive, regardless of the str4 and I2...

More often than not, you'll be getting about 30% less attacks out of what ever size your flayed ones currently are. I say this due to their low initiative, low armor save.

Although some really tough CC units might be able to accomplish that, in general you tend to lose less then 30% from my experiences. 10 ASM kill ~2-3, 30 Gaunts kill ~3-4, 10 Grey Hunters kill ~3-4 (assuming Counter Attack goes off). So, considering 15 to 20 bases, while your getting close to 30% with some of those, generally it's less then that. So while I certainly agree you won't be hitting at full force, I think you have to temper that notion with the fact that most units really aren't designed to hit you that hard, especially if you get the charge.

And I think that 4+ armor save is a lot better then people give it credit for. It puts you under the ever important AP 5 barrier. The distinction wasn't nearly as important in 5th with cover was more readily available and a 4+ to boot, but it's still pretty respectable, at least in my opinion. Combined with RP it becomes quite strong, especially at 13pts/base.

The reason their armor save is poor still is because every variant of power weapon will still ignore it. With how prevalent power weapons can be, there are much more appealing choices than flayed ones. It's easy to circumvent their poor armor from shooting, not from cc.

Out of the units you named, either there were no power weapons involved our your opponent rolled terribly.

Initiative 2 assault units with a 4+ save? Yea, good luck with that after overwatch and attacking last.They are a good distraction, well, a semi good destraction. They will show up, then they will die. Maybe against a weak shooty army that cant handle any cc they will do well, but that wont last for long as they get blasted after killing whatever you put them against.

Lets put it this way, and it sounds bad, they are close combat Necron warriors. That has a bad ring to it.

But if you must, they can be a distraction.