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 Alpharius wrote:
The new direction looks hella-goofy.

No kidding.

What were they thinking?

That dragon makes my chaos begin to grow.

That lighting choice (obviously for the more mainstream mag look) isn't helping the models stand out at all.

Overall I'm torn, on one hand, they look kinda odd, on the other Daemon engines for Chaos.

The Dragon also looks a lot better than I feared it would.

Going to have to say I'm up on the fence for this one, I want to see some good up close shots with a white background before I make any proper judgement calls.

Not sure to rejoice or cry over the flier, that thing will be needing some work I feel. Probably just got for a thunderbolt and have a modeller bud help me chaosfy it.

 aka_mythos wrote:

I think you're over reacting and ignoring the aesthetic precedent for this:

Spoiler:

The forgefiend is simply more daemon than daemon engine and more bloodcrusher than defiler:

Spoiler:

While its never been explicitly stated a bloodcrusher/juggernaut, being mechanical and daemonic sure sounds like a daemon engine as well. I tend to believe GW made these more organic than the standard defiler simply so they'd be cross compatible between Codex Chaos Marines and Codex Chaos Daemons for their inevitable inclusion.

When you look at the Soul Grinder that brings plenty of organic elements to the basic defiler and its still regarded as a daemon engine, not purely a daemon, so I see no reason the Forgefiend and Helldrake can't. be.

Spoiler:

Sorry but the Maulerfiend still reminds me more of a Tyranid creature covered in chaosy bits, than of a Bloodcrusher. I think it has something to do with its head. I'm fine with the Forgefiend though, since it looks more menacing/demonic and less "dino". Guess its the head again.

Anyways, I'll better not talk about the overall ridiculousness and out-of-placeness of the dragon. If I would, someone might call me over-reacting and ignoring again

The Dragon thing... it's ok. Not my fav model in the world, but then again neither is the Soulgrinder and I have no problems with that thing.

The Forgefiend is certainly the better of the two ground-based kits. I still don't like it though. I, like a lot of people, wanted a plastic Dread kit (or even a plastic hybrid Dread/Hellbrute kit). Instead we got a Bone Jack mixed with a Dinobot.

The Maulerfiend is just terrible. Not since the Baby Carrier have they made a model this aweful. People saying that it's "just like a Jugger" are missing the point. Look at a Jugger. Look at its head specifically. It's all hard angles and straight lines. This Derpfiend just doesn't look Chaos-y. You'd almost be forgiven for calling it a DE construct.

The Warpsmith has a really stupid name, but that's about it. I'll need a better look at it before I'm 100% sold on it, but right now Chaos Techmarine = AWESOMEZ!!! for me, so I like it.

The fancy Raptors? Meh. They're just fancy Raptors. I'd've rather plastic versions of the current Raptors.


And it's also comforting to know that when push came to shove, pretre dropped the facade of being a balanced rumour-shepherd and just started attacking anyone who didn't instantly fall over in love with these new models...

I'm really not digging these new Chaos models. The Warp Talons are really cool, but the Forgefiend and the Dragon are both very disappointing. Aside from the Maulerfiend (which isn't executed very well) and Warp Talons, they seem to have gone for a chunky metal look rather than the mixture of metal and flesh that was so promising in the Dark Vengeance kits. I was really hoping the Hellbrute and Chosen would be heralds of a new design æsthetic for Chaos.

Honestly, when I saw the White Dwarf cover, I thought it was some troll posting an image from Second Edition. The new Dæmon Images remind me of old Armorcast stuff more than anything else.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The Dragon thing... it's ok. Not my fav model in the world, but then again neither is the Soulgrinder and I have no problems with that thing.

The Forgefiend is certainly the better of the two ground-based kits. I still don't like it though. I, like a lot of people, wanted a plastic Dread kit (or even a plastic hybrid Dread/Hellbrute kit). Instead we got a Bone Jack mixed with a Dinobot.

The Maulerfiend is just terrible. Not since the Baby Carrier have they made a model this aweful. People saying that it's "just like a Jugger" are missing the point. Look at a Jugger. Look at its head specifically. It's all hard angles and straight lines. This Derpfiend just doesn't look Chaos-y. You'd almost be forgiven for calling it a DE construct.

The Warpsmith has a really stupid name, but that's about it. I'll need a better look at it before I'm 100% sold on it, but right now Chaos Techmarine = AWESOMEZ!!! for me, so I like it.

The fancy Raptors? Meh. They're just fancy Raptors. I'd've rather plastic versions of the current Raptors.


And it's also comforting to know that when push came to shove, pretre dropped the facade of being a balanced rumour-shepherd and just started attacking anyone who didn't instantly fall over in love with these new models...

Honestly right now I'm more excited for your review of this new Chaos codex than I am for the actual Chaos codex.

I suppose this will also give me more oppertunities to make really original princes too. I wonder how well those wing parts come apart.

I also wonder how well these engines will fit into the new big scoring units with character tricks style of play we've seen lots of success with in the new edition.

I wonder if scoring abadon terminators or super buffed cult troops will be the new style.

 ph34r wrote:
The amazing Necron, GK, DE releases, combined with the years of waiting through 4e in anticipation of a legions codex, built up my hopes too much.

The warp talons have an awkward amount of ornamentation, worse than the current raptors which I consider great.

Warpsmith is pretty cool, static but not much you can do about that with a techmarine.

Daemon engines are a minor letdown. The ranged variant has the same lame chicken legs as the awful awful plastic daemon prince. The guns are cool. The torso is cool. The melee variant is alright but the melee claws are extremely limp wristed and the head is way less hardcore than the juggernaut. No idea why they changed the old gargoyle head ornamentation to the "sad emperor's children face" smokestacks.

The dragon looks like a bad conversion.

This more or less sums up my feelings...I really liked DV Chaos minis, these feel somewhat of a let down. OK, I kinda like the Dragon. Warp smith looks good. Warp talons are...eh...acquired taste I guess. It's obvious they're very divisive. Fiends just don't have that heavy, gothic GW look. They look too organic, too streamlined.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:
Honestly right now I'm more excited for your review of this new Chaos codex than I am for the actual Chaos codex.

That all depends on the Codex. I was all set to do a review of the Guard Codex when it came out, but that book was so dull that it basically killed my interest in the Guard for quite some time. And, again, I was all ready to go with Grey Knights, but that book was so soul-crushingly terrible that I just couldn't do it.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:
Honestly right now I'm more excited for your review of this new Chaos codex than I am for the actual Chaos codex.

That all depends on the Codex. I was all set to do a review of the Guard Codex when it came out, but that book was so dull that it basically killed my interest in the Guard for quite some time. And, again, I was all ready to go with Grey Knights, but that book was so soul-crushingly terrible that I just couldn't do it.

Listen, you were BORN to do this. No matter how depraved, soul-crushingly terrible or mind-boggingly insipid this codex turns out to be, you need to do a review of it. You must continue the legacy that you born to uphold. Your 4th edition review was on the 13th of August in the year of 2007. It's been more than 5 years since then. You are the codex reviewer that we don't want, but you're one that we need.

So...are you ready to do this, or are you ready to do this?!

Overall, I approve of Daemon engines. While the new items are not instantly grabbing me, they are MUCH better than the defiler/soul grinder. The stock defiler is just weird - boxy turret on legs with a head sticking out. The soul grinder is a bit better, but the two parts of the model do not merge well.

While better than the defiler, these are not as good as the FW brass scorp and bloodslaughter (I think that;s what its called, the bug thing), as they are cleaner, more interesting lines.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Dragon - Cooler than expected.
Forgefiend - BADASS.
Maulerfiend - Terrible name, but the model looks pretty awesome... what's with the Juggernaut-inspired Chaos machines?
Warpsmith - Cool.
Warp Talons - The wings on the jump packs look a little odd, but the models are cool overall. It might be just the paintjob that makes them look a little awkward.

Swap around the Maulerfeind and Forgefiend reactions. I thought the Maulerfiend was badass and the Forgefiend was just pretty cool. That's basically my reactions to seeing this stuff.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I, like a lot of people, wanted a plastic Dread kit (or even a plastic hybrid Dread/Hellbrute kit). Instead we got a Bone Jack mixed with a Dinobot.

Who's to say that Chaos won't be getting a plastic Dread kit? I think these photos are just the tip of the iceberg for the Chaos release...GW unsurprisingly wanted to show off the completely new units first.

 ergotoxin wrote:

Sorry but the Maulerfiend still reminds me more of a Tyranid creature covered in chaosy bits, than of a Bloodcrusher. I think it has something to do with its head. I'm fine with the Forgefiend though, since it looks more menacing/demonic and less "dino". Guess its the head again.

I don't think there is a single detail that actually screams "Tyranid" or dinosaur... to me. Honestly it has the proportions of a gorilla with a long neck not any dinosaur I know of and not nid. I think someone threw pyrovore out there but that thing has hind legs more similar in length to its front legs than the Maulerfiend. Nids have more bulbous portions to its head and harder jaw line. The Maulerfiend neck and head is like a bent cone and reminiscent of the Blood Slaughterer with the mechanical actuators and tubing and where the armor mask covers something more bestial.

For the people who dislike the Forgefiend...there are a number of third party kits with conversion potential and I'm sure some will inevitably produce other similarly useful models.
http://www.zealotminiatures.co.uk/#!__zealot-store/m2-assault-droid-ii-haz-op
http://blightwheelminiatures.jumpseller.com/mantis-tank

I dislike how when they release a new army they just make a few giant monster kits to add on to the army and then leave all your core troops the same, unless this is half of what we get, I know a few chaos players who would be disappointed. These models are cool and all but with this and dark vengence, things like the basic marines and khorne bezerkers look so old and dated I wish they would give them an upgrade too.

Overall, these new stuff is pretty cool though.

We at least have cultists as a troop choice now. Monster sized kits are just more dramatic and GW is selling on excitement.

tuiman wrote:
I dislike how when they release a new army they just make a few giant monster kits to add on to the army and then leave all your core troops the same

That's because the troops already have plastic kits. While I'm not a huge fan of the current CSM box and would really love it recut to have bits like the Dark Vengeance chosen, it's not going to happen because it's not needed. They're already in plastic.

What they're doing is expanding the range, not simply replacing parts of the range.

That said, I understand your concern over the Chosen. I really want a plastic Chosen kit that follows the same aesthetic as the Chosen in Dark Vengeance and now the Warp Talons. If they did that, I'd probably just use those as basic Chaos Marines and use different colours to represent Chosen.

@H.B.M.C. I'd hardly call it attacking. My opinion of new releases and discussion of whether or not they are derivative of 80s toys has nothing to do with rumor tracking.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You'll notice as well that I was railing against silly and false comparisons and not simple dislike, as well. Believe what you want though.

Color me disappointed. Is that all there is to a CSM release?

If that's all there is, my friends, then let's keep dancing, let's break out the booze and have a ball.

 aka_mythos wrote:

Palindrome wrote:

 Starfarer wrote:
I've gotta admit, I'm a little underwhelmed by the daemon engines. I don't think they are necessarily bad, I'm just not crazy about them. They also just don't really fit my Death Guard army.

Much the same. I was expecting something more along the lines of the old Daemon Engines but these are too organic. They also don't fit into the aesthetic of my Death Guard at all and I would be as well scratchbuilding one if I ever wanted to field them. Actually I wonder how well a Blight Drone would work as the dragon thingy? Or maybe a Zombie Dragon.

To be honest the only changes that my existing army is likely to see is that a couple of cultists squads will be replacing some CSM squads and I may try a Lord for a while to see how he rolls.

I understand what you're saying with Deathguard, but they've always had a disparate aesthetic by virtue of their slimey organic look. That said the blight drone would probably be too small but building a larger one sure would look cool.

Blight Drones are pretty sweet already, I wish they would have added the FW daemon engines in addition to these new offerings. I will admit I was assuming previously the new models were on 60mm bases, and not large oval bases, which is slightly more appealing, as it means they are pretty darn big, but they still would need extensive conversions for me to be happy with them.

If you want a larger Blight Drone flyer, perhaps try your hand at something like this. I have a feeling if the rules for these units are good, us Nurgle players may be better served creating entirely unique kits bashes that fit the Nurgle theme better.

Like I said before, I'm most excited about seeing the new plastic versions of "classic" CSM units like Havocs, Raptors and Obliterators. There were rumors of full plastic kits for the Chosen, Cultists and Hellbrute in addition to the DV kits we got for those models, so there should hopefully still be a lot of new units besides these daemon engines to look forward to.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
Color me disappointed. Is that all there is to a CSM release?

If that's all there is, my friends, then let's keep dancing, let's break out the booze and have a ball.

I was planning on doing that anyway! There's probably more to come; the close combat Obliterators haven't been seen yet, and there is hopefully a kit for cultists in addition to the DV guys. GW is rumored to be releasing pretty much everything all in one go from here on out, so let's hope that's accurate.

I thought the Dragon's head was the biggest let-down. It just doesn't look ferocious enough.

But then I thought "Forgefiend head on Dragon"

Problem solved...




(except for a headless forgefiend of course)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
The new direction looks hella-goofy.

No kidding.
What were they thinking?

Want to see your face when FFG asks you to flesh out the goofyness in an upcoming Black Crusade book

As a sidenote I'm even more a fan of the new aesthetic because my sedition wars strain will work well as mini-daemon engines

Like I said before, I'm most excited about seeing the new plastic versions of "classic" CSM units like Havocs, Raptors and Obliterators. There were rumors of full plastic kits for the Chosen, Cultists and Hellbrute in addition to the DV kits we got for those models, so there should hopefully still be a lot of new units besides these daemon engines to look forward to.

The actual CSM models are the ones most in need of updating. Funnily enough in the 40K model range once Craftworld Eldar and Tau are revamped the Space Marines of all types are the most old fashioned design now.

This isn't because there wouldn't be new Space Marine models but because new technology has allowed GW to update and improve their fantasy and xenos product ranges and designs while the SM aesthetic and scale has remained the same. While we now have much more slender and anatomically believable skeletons, Skaven, Dark Eldar and Necrons etc. and the 'giant hands and feet' syndrome seems to be extinct, Space Marines are still way too small and static. A human being could never fit inside their power armour. I'll go along with the suspension of disbelief regarding scale when we're talking about tanks and flyers but an infantry model is an infantry model and should be comparable to other humanoids on identical bases.

GW has the technology and the artistic skill to pull off a massive SM model revamp (the same iconic look and style but a bigger and more dynamic and detailed finish) but they can't do it because there's simply too many kits they'd need to update in the same time.

Because of this it's actually a little sad to see new and completely underwhelming SM and CSM units because there's so much wasted potential to those ranges. Once we see the completely re-designed 2013 version of Craftworld Eldar by the master Jes Goodwin the Space Marines of all variants will look like bad sculpts by an amateur hobbyist.

I am liking the look, the Forgefiend in particular. As some others have said, they don't completely fit with my older models, but no problem: time for a new Chaos warband!

Perhaps the Warpsmith will unlock additional slots for Daemon engines, either as troops (as in codex orks) or elites/heavy support (space marines)?

Although, am I the only one concerned that the codex will be filled with Hellbrutes and Helldrakes, armed with Hellcannons and Hellfists, led by the new special character Hades Hellborn?

 Robbietobbie wrote:
Using a zombie dragon as the CSM dragon is actually a really great idea for my death guard army.. It looks suitably nurglish as it is! That and it gives me an excuse to buy that lovely kit

A couple of the dragons from the recent Reaper Bones Kickstarter might make good starting point for a Nurgle dragon.
Clockwork Dragon, Nethyrmaul the Undying and Kaladrax Reborn all have possibilities.

Using a zombie dragon as the CSM dragon

I'm going to use a rapier laser destroyer as a Land Raider, because MFA is just a house rule.