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I'm so excited to finally see all this in person! An Iron Painter event is going on this weekend as well. It's going to be a good time. Gunna preorder a codex and heldrake right off the bat and try to paint as many Chaos Marines as I can!

What's really more interesting to think about is... what could be released on the 20th of October? Let's look at what we know...

1. All the new kits except for the Helbrute and Cultists are being released on the 6th.
2. The new Battleforce has Bikes, Possessed, Marines, and a Rhino
3. Noise Marines, Thousand Sons, and most named HQ's are getting finecast resculpts and Raptors are getting a plastic kit.

What's that leave? In all of the Chaos Marine range, that leaves only a handful of things, really...

Helbrute, Cultists, Plague Marines, Khorne Berzerkers, and Terminators, along with nearly ALL of the current vehicles.

If they released those two new kits, replaced Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines, and Terminators, and gave the vehicles a new sprue upgrade kit, that'd make a pretty solid 2nd wave, don't you think?

drbored wrote:
I'm so excited to finally see all this in person! An Iron Painter event is going on this weekend as well. It's going to be a good time. Gunna preorder a codex and heldrake right off the bat and try to paint as many Chaos Marines as I can!

What's really more interesting to think about is... what could be released on the 20th of October? Let's look at what we know...

1. All the new kits except for the Helbrute and Cultists are being released on the 6th.
2. The new Battleforce has Bikes, Possessed, Marines, and a Rhino
3. Noise Marines, Thousand Sons, and most named HQ's are getting finecast resculpts and Raptors are getting a plastic kit.

What's that leave? In all of the Chaos Marine range, that leaves only a handful of things, really...

Helbrute, Cultists, Plague Marines, Khorne Berzerkers, and Terminators, along with nearly ALL of the current vehicles.

If they released those two new kits, replaced Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines, and Terminators, and gave the vehicles a new sprue upgrade kit, that'd make a pretty solid 2nd wave, don't you think?

I hope for the zerkers but don't think that plague marines will get a new sculpt as they are fine cast already.
Wait for hell brute, cultists and maybe chosen. I don't believe vehicles will get an upgrade.

 avedominusnox wrote:

drbored wrote:
I'm so excited to finally see all this in person! An Iron Painter event is going on this weekend as well. It's going to be a good time. Gunna preorder a codex and heldrake right off the bat and try to paint as many Chaos Marines as I can!

What's really more interesting to think about is... what could be released on the 20th of October? Let's look at what we know...

1. All the new kits except for the Helbrute and Cultists are being released on the 6th.
2. The new Battleforce has Bikes, Possessed, Marines, and a Rhino
3. Noise Marines, Thousand Sons, and most named HQ's are getting finecast resculpts and Raptors are getting a plastic kit.

What's that leave? In all of the Chaos Marine range, that leaves only a handful of things, really...

Helbrute, Cultists, Plague Marines, Khorne Berzerkers, and Terminators, along with nearly ALL of the current vehicles.

If they released those two new kits, replaced Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines, and Terminators, and gave the vehicles a new sprue upgrade kit, that'd make a pretty solid 2nd wave, don't you think?

I hope for the zerkers but don't think that plague marines will get a new sculpt as they are fine cast already.
Wait for hell brute, cultists and maybe chosen. I don't believe vehicles will get an upgrade.

The Hive Tyrant got a finecast kit and then was replaced shortly after. Plague Marines desperately NEED the update.. They're a full head shorter than normal marines! I'll be crossing my fingers.. I'm sure we'll hear about it in a few weeks..

 Platuan4th wrote:

 morgendonner wrote:


Anyway I don't think $50 is thaaaat ridiculous for an all color hardback book.

For the amount of pages, $50 is stupid ridiculous. Most RPG books are full color and twice the size for usually $15 less.

Honestly I think what prompted GWs change was FFG's 40k RPG books so outshining GW's books. A comparable book in size from FFG is $40. GW stopped selling the RPG itself because a $50 core rulebook doesn't justify the investment and they were "losing money". If they needed a margin of 25% ($75 for 6th ed and $60 for DH presently ) greater than FFG to justify the investment charging $50 for what FFG charges $40 is consistent. That margin is no doubt relative to their above cost markup of miniatures so if you want rules and not just random minis you have to accept that relationshipi.

The best PMs available at the moment are the FW conversions, I believe:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Chaos/CHAOS_INFANTRY_AND_ACCESSORIES/DEATH_GUARD_CONVERSION_SET.html

 Slinky wrote:
The best PMs available at the moment are the FW conversions, I believe:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Chaos/CHAOS_INFANTRY_AND_ACCESSORIES/DEATH_GUARD_CONVERSION_SET.html

Yes! Those and the Nurgle Terminator conversion kits are wicked-sick-awesome!

 Slinky wrote:
The best PMs available at the moment are the FW conversions, I believe:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Chaos/CHAOS_INFANTRY_AND_ACCESSORIES/DEATH_GUARD_CONVERSION_SET.html

I agree. They are beautiful indeed. If you can grab a unit of them there is not need to wait a new sculpt.
Btw the metal plague marines that is now fine cast are not that bad.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
I think the biggest priority should be a reworking of the regular chaos marines. The current ones no longer fit the new aesthetic.

110% agreed. While the rest of the army goes with a new look. (Reminiscent of Abaddons chosen from ages ago) the core troops are still the same. Not a single re-sculpt of special characters, and Khorne is still the only God with plastic troops even though the various gods are played in a pretty fair mix… (Discounting the force feeding of Plastic Khorne by default)
I say update Core troops, plastic cults, new sculpts on heroes, plastic havocs, would’ve been a much better deal than these Jokes of models… Who ever coined the phrase Dino bot has it right.
I’m not gonna complain about prices or threaten to quit and all that non sense… I’ve taken plenty of time off 40K and G.W. as a whole and they still made there 193 million profit in 2011.

But instead of trying to create Carnifex type models in a Chaos force they could have updated the entire line thus reselling new copies of the heroes and troops to even the oldest of chaos players…
I will be buying some raptors...

I’m cool on the dino bots…

And Why Do the Oblitz look like tweedledee n Tweedledum in the face... tell me why?

Side note: who care if Plague marines loose feel no pain… it’s fluffy for both armies, DGs have burnt out nerve end and Slaanesh unload in their pant at the slightest scratch… they’ll still the same theme you know and love…

Are we expecting the chosen to live out this edition as DV only? Or do you think we will get a kit in the second wave? Rumours seemed to have stopped as soon as the first wave was leaked. Sources not talking about the second wave yet?

The battle report is Chaos vs White Scars? How nostalgic...

 5deadly wrote:


Side note: who care if Plague marines loose feel no pain… it’s fluffy for both armies, DGs have burnt out nerve end and Slaanesh unload in their pant at the slightest scratch… they’ll still the same theme you know and love…

Every Death Guard/Nurgle player ever? I don't think anyone is actually worried about Plague Marines loosing FNP, but that other units that are given the Mark of Nurgle cannot take an Icon to access FNP. This was the case in the codex we've had for the past 5 years as well, but limiting it to Slaanesh was unexpected.

 5deadly wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
I think the biggest priority should be a reworking of the regular chaos marines. The current ones no longer fit the new aesthetic.

110% agreed. While the rest of the army goes with a new look. (Reminiscent of Abaddons chosen from ages ago) the core troops are still the same. Not a single re-sculpt of special characters, and Khorne is still the only God with plastic troops even though the various gods are played in a pretty fair mix… (Discounting the force feeding of Plastic Khorne by default)
I say update Core troops, plastic cults, new sculpts on heroes, plastic havocs, would’ve been a much better deal than these Jokes of models… Who ever coined the phrase Dino bot has it right.
I’m not gonna complain about prices or threaten to quit and all that non sense… I’ve taken plenty of time off 40K and G.W. as a whole and they still made there 193 million profit in 2011.

GW would rather release brand new plastic kits than remake current ones. The old Necron warriors and Destroyers dont match the new models, not to mention the WFB armies with ugly core units that never get updated.

Ha new WD cover is on daily blog already

edit: just the cover :(

So there are no new plastic cult troops, we get some stupid looking dinobots and a mechanical dragon.... worst release ever!

Wouldn't you rather have finecost pumbabliterators? Only $20 each!

MetalOxide wrote:
So there are no new plastic cult troops, we get some stupid looking dinobots and a mechanical dragon.... worst release ever!

What a refreshing observation.

This release is interesting thus far, and at first glance the codex is looking varied (in a good way) and full of potential.

There's no reason to remake a decent looking line when SoB haven't gotten any new models since the 90s.

 SpitfireArsonist wrote:

MetalOxide wrote:
So there are no new plastic cult troops, we get some stupid looking dinobots and a mechanical dragon.... worst release ever!

What a refreshing observation.

This release is interesting thus far, and at first glance the codex is looking varied (in a good way) and full of potential.

On a positive note I do like the raptors and the finecast stuff. I was expecting so much more from GW for the Chaos release though. What I personally don't like about the Mauler fiend in particular is that I'm not sure what it is supposed to be, is it a Daemon? a Walker? GW should of stuck with doing Walkers with the spirits of Daemons trapped inside, they are never any good at making cyborg type minis.

MetalOxide wrote:

 SpitfireArsonist wrote:

MetalOxide wrote:
So there are no new plastic cult troops, we get some stupid looking dinobots and a mechanical dragon.... worst release ever!

What a refreshing observation.

This release is interesting thus far, and at first glance the codex is looking varied (in a good way) and full of potential.

On a positive note I do like the raptors and the finecast stuff. I was expecting so much more from GW for the Chaos release though. What I personally don't like about the Mauler fiend in particular is that I'm not sure what it is supposed to be, is it a Daemon? a Walker?

Suppose we'll have to wait for the codex to see. I think it's neat in its own way, but I don't see myself fielding one. Much like I didn't ever field a Defiler.

I'm SO glad they made new raptors because I have a feeling they will be a viable, and important part of many armies now. Especially since I have over 20 built, and waiting, to play in some games.

can someone please post the USD prices for these items?

So have the new WD in front of me. Dark Apostles seem to be common to every CSM Legion now and are simply the reverse of Space Marine Chaplains. No mention of Word Bearers are made in their entry. GW took a huge gak on the fluff, but after Newcrons this isn't very surprising...


The new CSM battleforce also removes the Berzerkers for 5 Possessed Marines.

 Harriticus wrote:
So have the new WD in front of me. Dark Apostles seem to be common to every CSM Legion now and are simply the reverse of Space Marine Chaplains. No mention of Word Bearers are made in their entry. GW took a huge gak on the fluff, but after Newcrons this isn't very surprising...


The new CSM battleforce also removes the Berzerkers for 5 Possessed Marines.

The last box had possessed. They took out berzerkers and 5 marines for 3 bikes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

resipsa wrote:
can someone please post the USD prices for these items?

The first page posts list them from the White Dwarf scans.

Here are some though:

Codex: Chaos Space Marines $49.50
Psychic Cards $7.50
Dark Apostle $19.25
Sorceror $19.25
Warpsmith $30.00
Aspiring Champion $20.00

 Harriticus wrote:
So have the new WD in front of me. Dark Apostles seem to be common to every CSM Legion now and are simply the reverse of Space Marine Chaplains. No mention of Word Bearers are made in their entry. GW took a huge gak on the fluff, but after Newcrons this isn't very surprising...

To be fair...

It was always stupid that the Dark Apostles were only in the Word Bearers. It's not like it was some kind of cult secret that only the Word Bearers would have known.

It removes an iconic element from a core (and in the HH books, ever more important) legion and spreads it thinly across everyone else to no consequence. I doubt BL or IW guys are jumping up and down with joy that they can now paint a Dark Apostle in their own colors... just like I doubt they would go nuts to paint a plague marine in their own colors either.

Part of the appeal of Chaos, to me anyways, was the distinction of both look and fluff. They seem to be watering down the legion flavors in favor of an overall chaos flavor, and that is something I personally find drastically less intruiging.

To me, Word Bearers need more attention, not less.

In addition to the above, focusing on the Corsairs and whatever red renegades were in DA is a poor decision when people had/have a lot of untapped investement in the core legions. Instead of half heartedly introducing new renegade bands (corsairs are pretty fleshed out so I am not particularly aiming my ire at them) they should be rewarding long time fans and also making their own lives easier by using the built in excitement that would be there waiting for them.

I was very excited when I saw the DA box contents, saying to myself, awesome! Word Bearers and DA!

I was very un-excited when I realized it was 'Misc Renegades I never heard of before and DA!'

 Harriticus wrote:
So have the new WD in front of me. Dark Apostles seem to be common to every CSM Legion now and are simply the reverse of Space Marine Chaplains. No mention of Word Bearers are made in their entry. GW took a huge gak on the fluff, but after Newcrons this isn't very surprising...


The new CSM battleforce also removes the Berzerkers for 5 Possessed Marines.

If I can play devil's advocate, I really doubt we can get even a halfway-decent scope of the fluff from the brief entries in White Dwarf.

Tom:

To me, I've always found the idea of "Legion specific" things like Dark Apostles a tad silly. You're telling me that throughout all the Chaos Legions and Warbands of Renegades that there is nothing like a "Fallen Chaplain"?

I can't buy it. I just can't.
If Horus can fall, then why the hell can't Unnamed Chaplain #2752 from the Imperial Fists?

I don't see this as "neutering the Word Bearers!" or "punishing Word Bearers players!"--that happened last book. This is reintroducing one of their iconic character archetypes, but also making it so that they do not have to restrict themselves to just their Legion's rules.

Well we disagree then lol, which is ok.

For instance, if they put Fenrissian wolves into every SM army, I wouldn't be pleased either. If they called them Vat-grown warhounds or something instead, but they did the exact same thing I would be more or less ok with it. So long as they left the SW fluff alone I would have far less problems with it.

So if they simply called a fallen chaplain a dark chaplain, and left the dark apostles as an uber chaplain/sorceror for WB, I would have been happy. The Dark Apostles were never just simple chaplains...

By my interpretation of your logic, you would also think it is silly that there aren't World Eater Plague Marines running around? Or thousand son berserkers? WE have reasons to embrace pain... TS have reasons to be enraged...

If you follow that thinking to it's logical final conclusion, everything should go to everyone. There should be no difference in the Legions, or even legions at all, as every individual is different, and everyone would hear a different call of chaos, effectively making a uni-flavoured or at least directed theme force impossible.

It makes sense from a certain point of view if you subscribe to the admittedly logical idea that individuals would have fallen all kinds of ways, there is no such thing as a homogeneous mind-set when you get to it. However I don't think your position stands up to it's ultimate logical conclusion and remains applicable to the fluff or business model, that simply is not the mentality that this fictional universe is infused with.

Again though, it is perfectly fine that you feel differently.

On the topic but slightly tangential, had they explained why they changed the Dark Apostles to an all chaos unit, and actually made the fluff respect the old version while still advnacing the story to a new status quo, that would be cool too. Again, there are many ways to go about it that are so infinitely more engaging that simply retconning stuff willy-nilly, especially 'team' specific stuff that was formerly a selling point for that army within the faction.

As an example to the above, though initially resistant, I was OK with the Newcron fluff because they paid tribute to the old fluff in the book, however briefly, via the malfunctioning stasis and the zombie no mind necrons controlled by the tomb computers, explaining the initial encounters, establishing that it is not the actual status quo but doing so without just nullifying the pre-existing history out of hand.

Either way it is not that big a deal, but the fact that many of us are disapointed with the vanilla'ing of a big selling point of the WB legion, especially when the HH novels are selling them as an awesome and characterful force is not all that hard to understand. These guys are the true big-bads of 40k, worse than Horus even it seems. It sounds like Lorgar, once empowerred could have torn Horus in half... I would really like to see more WB stuff, certainly not have them be watered down and ignored.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Tom:

To me, I've always found the idea of "Legion specific" things like Dark Apostles a tad silly. You're telling me that throughout all the Chaos Legions and Warbands of Renegades that there is nothing like a "Fallen Chaplain"?

I can't buy it. I just can't.
If Horus can fall, then why the hell can't Unnamed Chaplain #2752 from the Imperial Fists?

I don't see this as "neutering the Word Bearers!" or "punishing Word Bearers players!"--that happened last book. This is reintroducing one of their iconic character archetypes, but also making it so that they do not have to restrict themselves to just their Legion's rules.

The Dark Apostles are a little more than just "fallen Chaplains", Kanluwen. They are intrinsically connected with the governing and directing of the entire Word Bearers legion. They spread the word of Chaos directly to their followers in Lorgar's absence. The Dark Apostles are their own thing, and there's a lot more fluff and background behind becoming a Dark Apostle and what they are than just being a "fallen Chaplain". Other legions could have "fallen Chaplains", there's nothing wrong with that. But giving other Legions Dark Apostles is the equivalent of every Space Marine Chapter now having Wolf Lords. Or imagine if every Chapter had Sanguinary Guard or Death Company. Or if every Space Marine Chapter was looking for the Artefacts of Vulkan. The way Dark Apostles work only meshes with the background of the Word Bearers because they are intrinsically a Word Bearer "thing".


We'll see what the fluff actually looks like, but if I was a Word Bearers player, I'd be a bit peeved.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
It removes an iconic element from a core (and in the HH books, ever more important) legion and spreads it thinly across everyone else to no consequence. I doubt BL or IW guys are jumping up and down with joy that they can now paint a Dark Apostle in their own colors... just like I doubt they would go nuts to paint a plague marine in their own colors either.

Part of the appeal of Chaos, to me anyways, was the distinction of both look and fluff. They seem to be watering down the legion flavors in favor of an overall chaos flavor, and that is something I personally find drastically less intruiging.

To me, Word Bearers need more attention, not less.

In addition to the above, focusing on the Corsairs and whatever red renegades were in DA is a poor decision when people had/have a lot of untapped investement in the core legions. Instead of half heartedly introducing new renegade bands (corsairs are pretty fleshed out so I am not particularly aiming my ire at them) they should be rewarding long time fans and also making their own lives easier by using the built in excitement that would be there waiting for them.

I was very excited when I saw the DA box contents, saying to myself, awesome! Word Bearers and DA!

I was very un-excited when I realized it was 'Misc Renegades I never heard of before and DA!'

I completely agree with this.

The potential wasted on this release has been unreal, I'll bite my tongue from saying more until the book is in my hands and the second wave has hit. This was a no brainer release for GW.

Get the Cult troops out, bless us with multipart Chosen, Plastic Chaos Dreadnought. Perhaps even have a couple of the GD's, and have the other 2 be released with the Daemon Codex. It's baffling that they went down the route they did. I do very much approve of the new aesthetic, it definitely draws a massive contrast to the Loyalists. I guess we'll need to see what awaits us, but it is very disappointing at this early stage.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Well we disagree then lol, which is ok.

What? Agreeable disagreement?

NEVER, TOM!

For instance, if they put Fenrissian wolves into every army, I wouldn't be pleased either. If they called Vat-grown warhounds or something that did the exact same thing, but left the SW fluff alone I would have far less problems with it.

So if they simply called a fallen chaplain a dark chaplain, and left the dark apostles as an uber chaplain/sorceror for WB, I would have been happy.

See, I think that's a bit of a bad example but I get what you're meaning. If the Word Bearers were their own Codex and didn't get Dark Apostles?
Then hell yes I would have a problem with it!
That very same reasoning that you used is why I was so annoyed that the Dark Angels Codex did not have the Mortis pattern Dreadnought, but the Space Marine Codex did.

By my interpretation of your logic, you also think it is silly that there aren't World Eater Plague Marines running around? Or thousand son berserkers? WE have reasons to embrace pain... TS have reasons to be enraged...

Everything should go to everyone and there should be no difference in the Legions, or even legions at all, everyone is different, and everyone would hear a different call of chaos.

It makes sense, but I don't think your position stands up to it's ultimate logical conclusion and remains applicable to the fluff or business model.

Berzerkers, Plague Marines, and Noise Marines are the only examples that I think I really should address here...and actually I've talked about it before in a few of the speculative threads or "How would you do X/Y/Z Codices?".
When it comes down to the "God specific" units, I'm of the opinion that they are different to things like the Warsmith or Dark Apostles.
The Dark Apostles, Sorcerers, and Warsmiths are "archetypes" so to speak, fairly generic examples which could exist in any of the Legions/Warbands. Plague Marines, Berzerkers, and Noise Marines certainly could exist in a kind of "lesser" form in the other Legions/Warbands as well, but I'd liken them to the difference between the Grey Knight Paladins/Terminators.
One is the real deal, the ultimate hardcase while the other is a pale imitation.

Thousand Sons are the only ones where you cannot get away with there being an entirely new, unknown unit of as they recycle their troops via the Warp. It's the same Thousand Sons fighting today as it was at the Battle of the Fang after the Heresy. The only difference is the armor that they're animating might be a bit newer.
But there's never been any issue with Sorcerers being available to the Death Guard/Nurgle Warbands, and I think that the introduction of Dark Apostles and War(p)smiths(I refuse to call them Warpsmiths. That's bad and whoever named them such should feel bad.) into the Chaos book can only be a good thing.

The only regrettable thing is, of course, that unless we have a Word Bearers character within the book it likely will not mean that they'll get some kind of special rules.

Again though, it is perfectly fine that you feel differently.

And it's fine that you feel differently too, Tom!