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 DarknessEternal wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:
This 'dex will be solid anyways, since it's written' by Phil 'Sidebeard'(from the WD ) Kelly.
And people will not complain about it being OP.

13 point marines will definitely elicit some OP cries.

Not when they're only LD8, no ATSKNF & no longer have BP/CCW.

~Vryce

Think of them as sisters with +1 S +1T +1I +1WS!

Then again, people don't tend to think very highly of sisters...

I'm just saying that I don't think people are realizing how ridiculous the basic Chaos Marine entry is yet. So many options for you to design units for what you need.

the whole "phil kelly writes balanced codices" thing is hilarious... his codices are abolutely the worst ones with a strikingly poor internal balance and things such as Grey Hunters and Long Fangs...

 Zweischneid wrote:
No. Because there is no "single" optimal list, because all lists are contingent on the "meta game".

I'm not sure how you managed to miss "for each metagame". It's right there at the beginning of my initial post. So what exactly are you trying to explain here that I didn't already say in those three words?

 punkow wrote:
the whole "phil kelly writes balanced codices" thing is hilarious... his codices are abolutely the worst ones with a strikingly poor internal balance and things such as Grey Hunters and Long Fangs...

Yeah, it's better when everything is equally busted/useless.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:
No. Because there is no "single" optimal list, because all lists are contingent on the "meta game".

I'm not sure how you managed to miss "for each metagame". It's right there at the beginning of my initial post. So what exactly are you trying to explain here that I didn't already say in those three words?

I think the difference is on emphasis.

"Each metagame" is fairly small (and ultimately irrelevant) unit to look at. Each metagame is in the end again a new meta-game each time you make a list. The very act of making a list and trying to find "the one optimal list" of "this particular metagame" is an indicator of the fact that the metagame is constantly changing (and thus constantly forcing people to find the next optimal list for tomorrow's metagame.

In this sense, you are right I guess. But the "skill" (i.e. the difficult part) lies not in writing the list that is optimal. The skill is in reading the metagame to know which "optimal list" you need to build.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Right, but how does having some useless units make Chaos worse than anybody else? Last I looked almost every Codex or Army Book from GW had quite an amount of useless units.

Fair enough, but I think of all Codexes Chaos should be done to a higher standard because it has 9 and more armies crammed into one book. The BA or SW Codex have some bad units but you can still play a BA or SW army. When CSM have a bad unit, it shuts down a whole sub-faction. A terrible Thousand Sons unit doesn't just mean you pick another unit and move on, it means you can't play that legion at all without critically handicapping yourself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Ok I thought the mauler fiend would suck do to grenades...primarily haywire until realizes the tentacles negate one attack per model in base....WHICH IS HUGELY BROKEN if true lol. SO if this is how it works you can't use grenades on those damn things.

12" move AND fleet for 125 base, assume 10pts for the tentacle.... WOW!

If think you should know by now these things always come with the caveat "down to a minimum of 1"

See i thought that, but it doesn't say so... It just says that they attack with one less attack

Doesn't the first page of this thread break the dakka rules? New Chaos units look great mind. I like the new Daemon Machines and the Iron Warriors paint scheme in WD. Anyone know if Iron Warriors take lesser daemons often?

 Brometheus wrote:

See?

Point to me where it says to a minimum of one !

Probably been covered in the 79 other pages but was unable to get a good search of what I was looking for:

Do Daemon Princes benefit from the Mark of (God) and the Daemon of (chosen God) rules? As in, does a Tzeentch prince get 4++ and reroll saves of 1? Does a Nurgle Prince get 6T and shrouded and such?

Thanks in advance!

Yea Typhus had mastery 2(from what I could see) every spell had to be from the nurgle list(O NO!!!!!). Manreaper was unwieldy, daemon weapon, and force. Hits at 2x strength.

I was able to see FNP listed in his special rules.

On the metagame front. Personally I think that 6th has made a generals skill with his army much more important than his army's optimization itself. If there is a type of army, or you have a particular playing style. then you are going to do better with an army tailored to that style, rather than an army tailored to the meta.

Pre-ordered my Chaos book, made sure to get it at a store open at midnight so I can grab it on friday. Really excited, everything I have seen so far looks great(rules and modelwise) and that is before we have seen the wargear section. We have seen no signs of possible synergies yet and I think that is where the codex will really shine. Same with necrons(outside of flyer spam) as it requires synergy to be truly effective.

 Zweischneid wrote:
But the "skill" (i.e. the difficult part) lies not in writing the list that is optimal. The skill is in reading the metagame to know which "optimal list" you need to build.

Exactly, that's why I think taking a balanced approach and learning to play it well will be much more succesful than constantly making large changes and having to re-learn against the same armies all the time.

 Bloodhorror wrote:

 Brometheus wrote:

Spoiler:

See?

Point to me where it says to a minimum of one !

Easy there, mate. That's just the summary page. The full rules (page __ or whatever) may have much more to say.

 Bloodhorror wrote:
Point to me where it says to a minimum of one !

On the page with the full rules entry for the item in question.


summary (ˈsʌmərɪ)

— n , pl -maries
1. a brief account giving the main points of something

I can see FnP fething everywhere. Seems to be the new thing these days. FnP in elites (PM), FnP in troops (Icon), FnP in HQ (DA)..... it's actually kind of annoying that the last few codexes have given secondary saves out like candy. I'll reserve my final judgement for when I see the actual book but it already seems like you can get that rule everywhere in this dex.

As always, there will be plenty of good options for people who don't care about fielding a themed force.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Bloodhorror wrote:
Point to me where it says to a minimum of one !

On the page with the full rules entry for the item in question.


summary (ˈsʌmərɪ)

— n , pl -maries
1. a brief account giving the main points of something

OK Blackfang, you made your point which was redundant in the first place as I said in my OP that IF it works as written on the reference page.....
You honestly have no merit to disprove it anyway, currently from what I see that is the rule. End of.


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 lord_blackfang wrote:
As always, there will be plenty of good options for people who don't care about fielding a themed force.

Depends on your view of theme. FnP is a theme to some folks.

Think im going to go with a chosen army but i am at a loss which mark to give them fnp and +1i or 1t and fear or rage furious charge and reroll on charge?

Thoughts?

Whats your favorite faction?

From the rumors you need Abby to make chosen troops. Also abby is supposed to give the warlord trait preferred enemy (space M) to units with 12" so I thought of a Max plasma gun chosen list sitting behind an aegis DL because against SM you reroll 1's to hit so you won't have to worry about gets hot as much(1/36 before AS). As far as icons I would take the fearless one as it fits the BL theme but Nurgle or Slannesh would synergize well.

favourite faction hmm khorne or nurgle tbh I want to use them as a combat makeup with abby I know your going to say assaulty armies arnt great anymore I know that quite well as I shoot them up with my sternguard all the time, this is why im thinking possibly nurgle for the 1t for that extra bit of survival and hopefully loyalists failing there ld test on fear. on the other hand khorne marks and icon thats 2 extra attacks on nice power mauls lightning claws etc with 1 extra strength reroll on charge and counter attack but is that to much of a glass cannon or possibly put abby at the front taking the flak on the overwatch and shooting?

 Red Corsair wrote:
I can see FnP fething everywhere. Seems to be the new thing these days. FnP in elites (PM), FnP in troops (Icon), FnP in HQ (DA)..... it's actually kind of annoying that the last few codexes have given secondary saves out like candy. I'll reserve my final judgement for when I see the actual book but it already seems like you can get that rule everywhere in this dex.

Makes me glad they bumbed it to 5+ instead of 4+. Worst was playing my friend with blood angels. Made hime take 30+ FNP rolls when it was 4+. He made all of them.

so forgefiends and maulfiends get 5+ invul save and soul gridner doesn't?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cajqn9F-Fok/UF-TQVGt66I/AAAAAAAACbM/psJUB9wwm5U/s1600/P1050831.JPG

randomguy8891 wrote:
so forgefiends and maulfiends get 5+ invul save and soul gridner doesn't?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cajqn9F-Fok/UF-TQVGt66I/AAAAAAAACbM/psJUB9wwm5U/s1600/P1050831.JPG

Which doesn't give me hope for my defiler unfortunately.

randomguy8891 wrote:
so forgefiends and maulfiends get 5+ invul save and soul gridner doesn't?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cajqn9F-Fok/UF-TQVGt66I/AAAAAAAACbM/psJUB9wwm5U/s1600/P1050831.JPG

Thanks for this Now I know that the autocannon fiends have 8 S8 shots..

AAAAAAAWWWWW YYEEEEEEAAAAAHHHH

These rules are looking extremely good. It seems that Chaos Marines are going to continue their current trend of having some of the best Troops units in the game. 13 points base for an extremely customizable bolter marine is just plain awesome, and that's before we even know the prices for the potentially quite impressive Cultists...

this 2 week wait is an eternity!

Do Chosen still have Infiltrate? If so, it's going to be fun playing Abaddon and Infiltrating a bunch of Chosen Troops.

Will make for cool count-as Alpha Legion methinks.

 Darth Bob wrote:
Do Chosen still have Infiltrate? If so, it's going to be fun playing Abaddon and Infiltrating a bunch of Chosen Troops.

Will make for cool count-as Alpha Legion methinks.

Unfortunately they do not...

haroon wrote:
this 2 week wait is an eternity!

It's painful. Putting my money down for the pre-order from the LGS on Saturday (20% off = win) but my god I want the book in my hands NOW.

randomguy8891 wrote:
so forgefiends and maulfiends get 5+ invul save and soul gridner doesn't?

How long ago was the Daemons Codex written? How long ago was this Chaos Codex written?

Think about it.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

randomguy8891 wrote:
so forgefiends and maulfiends get 5+ invul save and soul gridner doesn't?

How long ago was the Daemons Codex written? How long ago was this Chaos Codex written?

Think about it.

how old is 6th edition rulebook and latest errata and FAQ updates? think about it