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Hello
Is it me, or the way GW releases it's products (without prior notice or pre-marketing) is, uh, weird?
Intuitively, it seems that sayng ";New product N (chaos codex for example) will be released after 2 months"; will get the product-interested kiddies saving their money in advance and lining up to buy the stuff the day it hits the stores, like it happens with nintendos, new smart phones etc = more profit.
So is it the way GW sells stuff some cool marketing/psychology trick that I don't understand (no degree in economics) but it works;
or is it just another instance of "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools"; as the Paul put it (Romans 1.22)?

1) Marketing is expensive. Why spend money on marketing when your customer base is kids who walk into the store, whine and cry until their parents buy them space marines, and then forget about the game a week later?

2) GW is all about the impulse buy. If you have time to think about your purchase you might decide not to buy it, so it's much better to surprise you with something and ensure the inevitable regret happens after it's too late to get your money back.

3) You're going to spend all of your free cash on plastic crack anyway, so why would GW want to allow you to save money for a future release? It's much better if you buy something now AND buy the future release.


(Needless to say, these are stupid reasons, and GW's "marketing" plan is pure idiocy. Take a look at the marketing campaigns for MTG if you want to see a professional game company at work, and then imagine how much bigger and better 40k could be if GW wasn't run by short-sighted investment bankers.)

It's amazing how people spend months on the internet talking about "leaked" info, then complain about GW's lack of "marketing strategy".

Something doesn't quite add up there

 Peregrine wrote:
Take a look at the marketing campaigns for MTG if you want to see a professional game company at work, and then imagine how much bigger and better 40k could be if GW wasn't run by short-sighted investment bankers.

Fixed that for you. One of the best things that could ever happen to WH40k would be GW biting the dust and Wizards of the Coast taking over their business.

 Testify wrote:
It's amazing how people spend months on the internet talking about "leaked" info, then complain about GW's lack of "marketing strategy".

Even if we assume* the leaks are "leaks" and part of GW's marketing strategy, it's a really stupid strategy. Like I said, look at how WOTC does the marketing and previews for each MTG release. There's actual marketing, not just some context-less images floating around on various forums. You get articles about the design of the set, card images with articles to add hype and convince a particular player group (competitive, casual, etc) that they're going to enjoy the card(s), previews given to third-party magazines/websites/etc, and of course it's all 100% official so there's no time wasted on "rumors" that some random guy invented to get blog hits. End result: I don't even play the game right now and I'm still excited about the upcoming release and eager to see more. Compare that to the (probably) upcoming chaos release, where my only feelings on the subject are limited to "I hope someone gets a codex scan posted quickly so I can see what new lists I need to beat".



*A pretty generous assumption given the stuff we've seen. GW has to playtest, get WD articles sent to the printer well in advance, get shipments out to distributors so they're in stores on release day, etc. We know there are people who are going to see some amount of information about new releases and it's pretty unrealistic to think that they'll all obey the strictest terms of their NDAs. So while there's no way to know for sure, there also isn't any compelling reason to believe the leaks are a deliberate marketing campaign.

Apple uses a similar strategy, or at least used to, and based on their success there must be something to it. Now, if GW is doing it well or is their target population going to respond well to it? No clue. However out-of-the-blue releases certainly can be effective; I don't think you'll find many people who say that Apple does a terrible job of marketing. (Of course, on the internet, there will be thousands of people who will. Plus, someone will have made porn about it.)

One reason for having such a short window between announcement and release is that once you announce that a product is being upgraded, people will generally no longer want to buy the old version. I mean, who is going to drop $33 on the Chaos Space Marine codex right now, knowing that an update is coming soon? Nobody. Now someone new to the hobby that got the starter set and wants to expand might be in for a rude welcoming when that codex they just bought gets replaced in a month, but GW apparently thinks that this won't hurt them enough to worry about. Again, Apple will happily sell you a computer that's going to be updated in a few weeks with a smile and nary a reach-around so the strategy certainly can work.

Frankly it just exhausts me.

Yup, "leaks" aren't great "marketing" as there is no interaction between them and the players. I'm following D&D 5th ed(also WotC) news these days, and god, they spammed my twitter, my email and their site is constantly updated with 5th ed news, most importantly of all, they communicate with the players throughout the entire beta, feeling that you're treated as a human is a great "marketing strategy", it makes us want to spend money on them. Personally speaking, my friends and I prefer to shop at 3rd party sellers instead of GW because of how they treat their customers: their redshirts are desperate to sell, even going as far as lying in your face to get you to buy something, their HQ aren't that much better when my friend had to call several times to get his preordered DV -while 3rd party sellers get the stock on time-, we assumed they eventually folded and had to give an employee's box to him.

EDIT: You can't compare with apple, apple is a bigger company, iPhone is in high demand even if they don't announce anything, also even if you ignore the apple fandom, smart phone is much more necessary than some tabletop plastic men.

Lansirill wrote:
Apple uses a similar strategy, or at least used to, and based on their success there must be something to it. Now, if GW is doing it well or is their target population going to respond well to it? No clue. However out-of-the-blue releases certainly can be effective; I don't think you'll find many people who say that Apple does a terrible job of marketing. (Of course, on the internet, there will be thousands of people who will. Plus, someone will have made porn about it.)

One reason for having such a short window between announcement and release is that once you announce that a product is being upgraded, people will generally no longer want to buy the old version. I mean, who is going to drop $33 on the Chaos Space Marine codex right now, knowing that an update is coming soon? Nobody. Now someone new to the hobby that got the starter set and wants to expand might be in for a rude welcoming when that codex they just bought gets replaced in a month, but GW apparently thinks that this won't hurt them enough to worry about. Again, Apple will happily sell you a computer that's going to be updated in a few weeks with a smile and nary a reach-around so the strategy certainly can work.

Frankly it just exhausts me.

the difference with apple is now people know thay will get timly updates, GW is basically up in the air for when they update stuff. And from experience I spent so long waiting for the updated elder stuff I forgot I wanted to play and quit :p now they release the wraith guard box and it's still way to expencive and I not going to buy it anyway :p just buy lots of warmachinr/ hordes stuff .
I not sure how GW does it realy works.
If GW where talking about updating models out for 10 years I don't think it would harm them like it would harm apple sales :p

 Jidmah wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Take a look at the marketing campaigns for MTG if you want to see a professional game company at work, and then imagine how much bigger and better 40k could be if GW wasn't run by short-sighted investment bankers.

Fixed that for you. One of the best things that could ever happen to WH40k would be GW biting the dust and Wizards of the Coast taking over their business.

Oh god please no. If WotC did wargames, they'd put out new edition every year. They'd burn the fanbase out within 2 years.

I find the comment "GW is run by short-sighted investment bankers" absolutely hilarious. If anything, it's Hasbro which is more likely to be run by "short-sighted investment bankers...", whoever they are.

I suppose what's funny is that GW seems to be doing fine. If they're in any financial trouble, they certainly aren't telling anyone about it. So, even if their market strategy, which is as you say (out of the blue releases), counter intuitive in the world of business, it seems to be working out for them.

GW is in a position where their models, at least for now, are pretty much the best out there in terms of detail and ease of assembly. GW doesn't need to market because it's already widely known they are the best. They don't need to build hype for anything for a long period of time. All big releases generally have a week of preorders then releases, and it seems to be enough for them to turn a profit.

So, i'd say that until another game gets as big or as well supported as 40k (and arguably many are close, such as warmachine, etc) then GW won't have to spend much time marketing.

I don't feel betrayed by their lack of specific marketing, simply because I enjoy the surprise of looking at the homepage and seeing a brand new wall paper for the next release.

On the other hand, they could just be lazy. Being the top dog in the industry for too long can make you complacent.

My 2 cents.

GW's business strategy is built around the "Ooh shiny!" factor. If you know Army X is coming out in three months, you'll save money for three months until they come out. If Army Y shows up out of the blue tomorrow and you think they're cool, you'll want to buy them immediately. Then when Army X comes out (similarly out of the blue) you'll do the same. It doesn't work for everyone but it's their general strategy

 Brother SRM wrote:
GW's business strategy is built around the "Ooh shiny!" factor. If you know Army X is coming out in three months, you'll save money for three months until they come out. If Army Y shows up out of the blue tomorrow and you think they're cool, you'll want to buy them immediately. Then when Army X comes out (similarly out of the blue) you'll do the same. It doesn't work for everyone but it's their general strategy

Wanting to buy and being able to buy are two different things though. I prefer 40k stuff but if I don't know it's on the way and I spend my money elsewhere? Tough luck GW, I don't have to have their mini's. They in turn have to sell them. So who looses over all Mmm?

It's obviously been working for the past few years, as much as the community doesn't like it. I really wish there was some transparency and less cynicism in the company, but whatever they're doing is working well enough. If it didn't, they would change or will soon. There was, however, talk at one of the panels with the Studio guys a few months ago, and this was brought up. They said it might change if people didn't like it, but it's been a while.

Let's turn this around: What do you think GW would get by announcing products more than 1 week out?

Let's say they announced that the new Tau dex was going to be released 2 months from now.

If you were a Tau player, or interested in Tau, what would you do? Simple: wait and buy absolutely nothing for fear that the units you pick would be "nerfed" or completely dropped.

So, from GW's perspective it not only costs money to make the announcements, but there would be a lost revenue cost.

---------------------

Of course, you might think the counter to this line of thought is customer satisfaction. And you'd be wrong.

If you tell your Tau players, just wait for 2 months and you're going to get to buy a whole new army.. Quite frankly that most likely back fire on them. Tau players would whine and moan about how they just know they are going to get screwed. Then when the release date finally showed up, they'd complain about having to replace 25% of their army because the build they have is no longer effective.

------------------------
To sum up

1. Customers won't be happier if they know in 2 months their armies will have to be replaced.

2. It costs money to market

3. Sites like Dakka and BoLS are more than happy to ferret out upcoming releases and shout to the heavens *for free*.

4. Heck this model even allows them to "leak" certain changes to see how they would be received by the Internet community without committing to doing them.

Quite brilliant really: keep your customers in the dark, release when you damn well like, profit!

Lansirill wrote:
Apple uses a similar strategy, or at least used to, and based on their success there must be something to it. Now, if GW is doing it well or is their target population going to respond well to it? No clue. However out-of-the-blue releases certainly can be effective; I don't think you'll find many people who say that Apple does a terrible job of marketing. (Of course, on the internet, there will be thousands of people who will. Plus, someone will have made porn about it.)

One reason for having such a short window between announcement and release is that once you announce that a product is being upgraded, people will generally no longer want to buy the old version. I mean, who is going to drop $33 on the Chaos Space Marine codex right now, knowing that an update is coming soon? Nobody. Now someone new to the hobby that got the starter set and wants to expand might be in for a rude welcoming when that codex they just bought gets replaced in a month, but GW apparently thinks that this won't hurt them enough to worry about. Again, Apple will happily sell you a computer that's going to be updated in a few weeks with a smile and nary a reach-around so the strategy certainly can work.

Frankly it just exhausts me.

I bought the last codex at my store, just to have it. GW is not releasing any more CSM codexs as they can't order anymore.

Maybe this is just me and my backwards way of thinking/doing things, but if I find out through Dakka or B&C or whatever rumor mill about the upcoming release of a new codex for one of my armies or and army that I'm interested in starting, I will go out of my way to buy the old/older "current" models that I like and enjoy. This is also to avoid possible Finecast. I'd rather work with plastic or metal.

Cases in point, prior to the SoB/GK release, I bought the last of the DCA and Crusaders I needed in metal. Now they are in Finecast. With the "recent" CSM rumors and with the release of the DV starter I finally started my CSM army. I've ordered the last few metal models that I need for it for now. My FLGS still has the metal Raptors and Havocs that I'm probably going to buy up just to have. Feth, the Raptors already went to Finecast and that purchase may be one of the last chances I have to get them.

GW doesn't have to advertise, but it sure would be nicer to actually know a release schedule for a year or six months out.

Backfire wrote:
Oh god please no. If WotC did wargames, they'd put out new edition every year.

Experience with WotCs previous wargames releases suggests otherwise...

While I admit it can be a tad annoying to only know a couple weeks in advance about a new release but all in all it really doesn't change anything.

WotC almost got bankrupted by their last attempt at tabletop war gaming...Still, M:tG is a professional operation that makes GW look like Middle Ages imbeciles who don't understand why leeches aren't curing their flues.

If GW announced "Hey, new Tau Codex in February!" (or whatever), do you think they'd sell LESS Tau than they are now? Or would people buy, at the least, some Fire Warriors, some Hammerheads, and get them painted before the new book/models get released? At least it would generate interest from a portion of the community that is probably not likely to buy any Chaos or Dark Angels as is. Remember, casual players just want to play what they want to play and aren't going to rush out to buy every release no matter what. In a just world, GW would be seriously punished for this sort of short-sighted ignorance.

Backfire wrote:
Oh god please no. If WotC did wargames, they'd put out new edition every year. They'd burn the fanbase out within 2 years.

Which is why this happens with MTG, every year there's a new edition of the rules that completely changes everything. It's a huge problem, and the main reason why MTG is dying.

Oh wait, none of that is true. The core rules haven't change meaningfully in a decade, so the correct analogy for a new MTG set would be a new codex, FW-style campaign book, or Apocalypse/Planetstrike/etc type expansion. Oh yeah, and MTG is doing as well as it ever has, with no sign of burning out the community.

I find the comment "GW is run by short-sighted investment bankers" absolutely hilarious. If anything, it's Hasbro which is more likely to be run by "short-sighted investment bankers...", whoever they are.

Except for the fact that the MTG developers write a constant stream of articles documenting their design process, and it's very clear that the game designers are making all of the game design decisions and Hasbro's high-level management is content to trust them to do their job and make a nice profit. This is the exact opposite from GW where management is putting the interests of shareholders over the health of the game and making harmful changes to drive short-term profits.

 gpfunk wrote:
I suppose what's funny is that GW seems to be doing fine. If they're in any financial trouble, they certainly aren't telling anyone about it. So, even if their market strategy, which is as you say (out of the blue releases), counter intuitive in the world of business, it seems to be working out for them.

But why settle for "fine"? Why not double the player base? Why not expand beyond that? Who knows how much potential profit GW is losing with their current choices, even if they're still making a profit overall.

(The answer of course is shareholders, who want immediate profit, not the risk of long-term expansion.)

clively wrote:
Let's turn this around: What do you think GW would get by announcing products more than 1 week out?

Let's say they announced that the new Tau dex was going to be released 2 months from now.

If you were a Tau player, or interested in Tau, what would you do? Simple: wait and buy absolutely nothing for fear that the units you pick would be "nerfed" or completely dropped.

So, from GW's perspective it not only costs money to make the announcements, but there would be a lost revenue cost.

Except there's more to marketing than just announcing a release schedule. Let's say they did it like WOTC does marketing for MTG:

A year in advance you'd know that there's going to be a new Tau release in early 2013. You wouldn't know much beyond "Tau codex" and a maybe a concept art sketch in the background of the announcement page, but you'd know it's coming.

A few months in advance you'd start to see some hints about what's coming. For example, an article with a battle report involving new flyers might say something like "but what really won the game was my {can't talk about this until the Tau release}", so you'd start to wonder about what awesome new flyer might be in the book. Or you might start seeing more concept art, not anything that would give away specific rules, but maybe character portraits, a painting of a vehicle you've never seen before, etc.

About a month from release day the GW website would start running daily preview articles about the new release. You'd see general blog posts about how much fun it was working on the book and introducing the general themes, tournament articles analyzing how a new unit might impact the tournament metagame, casual gamer articles showing off the cool new characters, fluff articles with a short story taken from the codex, etc. And of course you're also giving information to third-party website authors, posting daily facebook previews so people who don't play the game might see your "like" and look at it, etc.

The end result of all this is that by the time the preorder page goes up you're excited about the new release and imagining what it could do for your army once you finally get to have it. And you're probably telling your friends about it, I've seen 20-page forum threads discussing one preview card from an upcoming MTG set. Compare this to the current system, where GW's plan is that you know nothing until you walk into your local GW store and see the new boxes on the shelf. Sure, you might impulse buy it before you have a chance to realize it isn't something you want, but are you really going to be excited about it? Probably not.

If you tell your Tau players, just wait for 2 months and you're going to get to buy a whole new army.. Quite frankly that most likely back fire on them. Tau players would whine and moan about how they just know they are going to get screwed. Then when the release date finally showed up, they'd complain about having to replace 25% of their army because the build they have is no longer effective.

See above. This isn't a problem if you actually run a proper marketing campaign and tell people how awesome it's going to be once the new book arrives.

3. Sites like Dakka and BoLS are more than happy to ferret out upcoming releases and shout to the heavens *for free*.

Except that's not a marketing campaign. At best, it's an uncontrolled discussion about out-of-context rumors, and at worst it's a bunch of blog authors making stuff up to get hits and no real way to sort out the useful information.

I like it better this way. When I deeply plan thing I doubt even the most sound strategies, but if they plop a shiny new dex in front of me, then I'd love to have it, and I almost always enjoy it.

The best explanation I've heard is that GW tries to keep everything quiet so third-party modelling companies that make knock-offs can't plan ahead. While third-party stuff can't necessarily replace a whole model, conversion-kit type stuff might allow an established customer to adapt what they have and allow him to avoid buying a whole new kit. Given the amount of time it takes to set up production, ensuring a 6-12 month window where nothing similar is on the market could easily explain this part of their marketing strategy.

As a sidebar, I've always found people who think GW are morons and make obviously terrible decisions to be silly. I can certainly believe that GW makes mistakes, and might at times be shortsighted (balancing the short term against the long term is a major difficulty for all public corporations). I am willing to believe that GW employees hard-sell customers and provide poor service. But the idea that, for example, GW's prices are too high and they would make a lot more money by cutting them is absurd. According to their most recent annual report, GW has about 700 employees that aren't involved in sales (ie GW stores). The company is worth about $300 million. It is ridiculous to think that GW hasn't fully investigated something as basic as whether their pricing strategy is optimal. The obvious explanation for why GW continually raises their prices is that you and I continue to pay them.

In addition, inelastic demand for GW's products can also help explain their lack of obvious marketing efforts. I can imagine GW's core customers as falling into two main camps. One is the kids, who get Dad to buy them a bunch of stuff and then lose interest. It's hard to market to this demographic as the competition is so high, so it might be optimal to just let branded products (Dawn of War, Space Marine etc.) and foot traffic draw them in. The second demo would be the hardcore fan. I would guess enough of this group make enough money that they can pay the high prices without difficulty. Is an extra $50 or whatever really going to stop you from finishing your army? Also, in the US at least, a huge part of the 40k player pool is soldiers, who have a steady paycheck and limited time with which to spend it.

One final point I learned from reading the annual statement: It looks like GW's corporate culture stresses cost control. Marketing can be very expensive, and is very capable of eating up profits. GW's managment could easily have a bias against spending money on marketing.

O boy... this thread again.

I like it. It keeps the rumour mills on their toes, and the customers content with novelty.

 Peregrine wrote:

Backfire wrote:
Oh god please no. If WotC did wargames, they'd put out new edition every year. They'd burn the fanbase out within 2 years.

Which is why this happens with MTG, every year there's a new edition of the rules that completely changes everything. It's a huge problem, and the main reason why MTG is dying.

Oh wait, none of that is true.

Except that it IS true, and it's why I, and every MtG player I know, stopped actively playing Magic. We just couldn't deal with the insane release schedule.

Backfire wrote:
Except that it IS true, and it's why I, and every MtG player I know, stopped actively playing Magic. We just couldn't deal with the insane release schedule.

Err, lol? They've been releasing expansions at the same rate for more than a decade now. The only changes were the addition of casual-only products (and casual players don't need to be current with all the latest stuff) and changing the core set to be more than just the same old reprints every veteran player ignored. Even if the release schedule is driving some people out of the game it certainly hasn't kept them from getting new players AND keeping veteran players around for years at a time.

 MrEconomics wrote:
As a sidebar, I've always found people who think GW are morons and make obviously terrible decisions to be silly.

Why is it so silly? The company is run by generic managers who treat it like just another Product To Be Sold, using the same rules for How To Keep The Shareholders Happy that they'd use at any other company. Without specific knowledge of how the game industry works you're inevitably going to make stupid decisions, especially when you're focused on maximizing short-term profits for shareholders at the expense of future potential. For example, cutting store hours (and therefore employee salaries) makes perfect sense when it means you can cut expenses this year, improve your profit numbers, and pocket a nice dividend check, but it's pretty stupid in the context of long-term stability for the game.

In addition, inelastic demand for GW's products can also help explain their lack of obvious marketing efforts. I can imagine GW's core customers as falling into two main camps.

So why the hell aren't they trying to expand that customer base? Again, look what WOTC does with their analysis of potential customers. They've spent a lot of effort on finding out what each kind of player likes about MTG, and used it to make sure that each new product has something to offer every kind of player. And then they market the game aggressively, with the goal of convincing as many people as possible that they're going to have fun with MTG. End result: huge customer base.

GW, on the other hand, seems to be content with selling to their "core" customers and throwing away the potential profit from everyone else. In fact, they even take it beyond that, declaring 40k a "beer and pretzels" game and deliberately ignoring the competitive players. Well, congratulations, you just lost sales and convinced those competitive players to spend their gaming money on other games.

One final point I learned from reading the annual statement: It looks like GW's corporate culture stresses cost control. Marketing can be very expensive, and is very capable of eating up profits. GW's managment could easily have a bias against spending money on marketing.

And that's exactly the problem: their "corporate culture" is that they're just selling any generic product and shareholder profits are the most important goal. Marketing is a risk, cutting expenses increases the immediate profits, and the market cares much more about a 10% increase in this year's profits than a 20% increase in next year's profits. So what we get is obsessive focus on cost control and maximizing efficient selling to the core customers instead of building the foundation for future growth.

 Peregrine wrote:

Backfire wrote:
Except that it IS true, and it's why I, and every MtG player I know, stopped actively playing Magic. We just couldn't deal with the insane release schedule.

Err, lol? They've been releasing expansions at the same rate for more than a decade now.

Exactly. Scene around here died out longer than a decade ago.

And no, it does not seems to have had an impact on MtG worldwide. Apparently they were able to recruit new players to replace first-generation veterans who quit when the game changed. That is an important lesson, which applies to you as well. For GW seems to think that their current strategy is a good one and the numbers appear to back them up.

 Peregrine wrote:

And that's exactly the problem: their "corporate culture" is that they're just selling any generic product and shareholder profits are the most important goal. Marketing is a risk, cutting expenses increases the immediate profits, and the market cares much more about a 10% increase in this year's profits than a 20% increase in next year's profits. So what we get is obsessive focus on cost control and maximizing efficient selling to the core customers instead of building the foundation for future growth.

I'm sorry but this is just complete garbage. For starters, short-sighted investors (who tend to be day traders or amateur investors, rather than major institutions) don't give a damn about "10% this year". That is just pittance. They want a company which is expected to give out 300%+ profits four-five years from now, so they can sell the stock three years from now when it has risen to match huge expectations. That's why they bought Facebook stock (and got burned, ho ho. But that's another story).

As it is, GW financial reports flat out state that any investor who is looking for quick buck from exponential growth should go look elsewhere.

Backfire wrote:
Exactly. Scene around here died out longer than a decade ago.

Then your local gaming scene must be really odd, because overall MTG is doing just fine. There are lots of new players, there are lots of veteran players, tournament attendance is great, etc.

And no, it does not seems to have had an impact on MtG worldwide. Apparently they were able to recruit new players to replace first-generation veterans who quit when the game changed. That is an important lesson, which applies to you as well. For GW seems to think that their current strategy is a good one and the numbers appear to back them up.

Err, the game changed well over a decade ago, as soon as WOTC became an established company with the resources to release sets that quickly, and Magic design matured to the point where they had a good idea of how to effectively use the block format. Since then they've had no problems keeping players in the game for long periods of time, and the release schedule has not caused any long-term harm to the player base. Your local experience is not even close to representative of the game as a whole.

Now, it's too bad if there were a few 1993 players who couldn't stand the transition to a fully developed game, but it would be insane to expect a company to stick with the policies they created in their early days before they understood their product or had proper funds to develop it.


And no, the numbers don't really back them up. GW dominates the miniatures market, but that has a lot to do with the inertia of being the largest company for so long. Their competition is gaining market share, and GW's improving profits seem to be based more on cutting costs (in large part through one-time savings like closing stores or cutting staff) than on generating higher sales volume or reaching new markets. They aren't going to go bankrupt, but they're slipping in their dominant status and throwing away potential sales because they're too afraid to take the risk of proper marketing, game design, etc.

I'm sorry but this is just complete garbage.

Obviously the numbers are completely false, but the basic point remains: GW is making a lot of decisions based on keeping investors happy in the short term rather than building the long term potential of the company.

 Peregrine wrote:

Backfire wrote:
Exactly. Scene around here died out longer than a decade ago.

Then your local gaming scene must be really odd, because overall MTG is doing just fine. There are lots of new players, there are lots of veteran players, tournament attendance is great, etc.

I'm sure they are. But they did that by driving the old players out. We hated the release schedule. Every expansion brought new rules (most of which were totally stupid, like Phasing), more powerful cards, your old decks became obsolete. It was obvious that the company was in enormous money grab. So everyone quit, we burned out. I still play (with old cards, which still look like MtG cards and not Pokemon cards) but have no interest of getting back in. Everything I have is either totally obsolete so people would pity me for playing them, save for few Revised edition cards of which people would whine.

So I'm afraid that if you claim that WotC are bunch of geniuses who are able to keep everyone in Dominaria happy with the state of game, is not correct.

Err, the game changed well over a decade ago, as soon as WOTC became an established company with the resources to release sets that quickly, and Magic design matured to the point where they had a good idea of how to effectively use the block format. Since then they've had no problems keeping players in the game for long periods of time, and the release schedule has not caused any long-term harm to the player base.

Really? How do you know? Does WotC release any numbers about their sales or financials at all? How many, say, Fifth Edition players you have around?

And no, the numbers don't really back them up. GW dominates the miniatures market, but that has a lot to do with the inertia of being the largest company for so long.

Hmm, company which maintains its position by inertia of being the largest company for so long. Sound familiar?

Their competition is gaining market share, and GW's improving profits seem to be based more on cutting costs (in large part through one-time savings like closing stores or cutting staff)

Hey, closing stores, that sounds awfully familiar too. Or cutting costs by say, discontinuing your own magazine? How's your Duelist subscription?

Obviously the numbers are completely false, but the basic point remains: GW is making a lot of decisions based on keeping investors happy in the short term rather than building the long term potential of the company.

Of which you have given absolutely no proof at all. YOU may not like how they're doing their thing, well to paraphrase you, that's too bad.

Backfire wrote:
I'm sure they are. But they did that by driving the old players out. We hated the release schedule. Every expansion brought new rules (most of which were totally stupid, like Phasing), more powerful cards, your old decks became obsolete. It was obvious that the company was in enormous money grab. So everyone quit, we burned out. I still play (with old cards, which still look like MtG cards and not Pokemon cards) but have no interest of getting back in. Everything I have is either totally obsolete so people would pity me for playing them, save for few Revised edition cards of which people would whine.

So I'm afraid that if you claim that WotC are bunch of geniuses who are able to keep everyone in Dominaria happy with the state of game, is not correct.

Except, as I said, this happened 15 years ago, as Magic became a fully developed game with the resources to release a full block every year. The old slow release schedule wasn't some brilliant design decision that WOTC threw away, it was simply the highest release rate they had the staff to support. And things like new rules in every set were there right from day one. The simple fact is that you have a really idealized view of how MTG used to be, and your experience is not representative of the player base as a whole.

Also, if you think that early cards were less powerful then you just sucked at playing the game. The early sets are full of broken design mistakes that have to be banned or severely restricted in any format that allows the earliest sets, and the designers have openly admitted that they put overpowered stuff in the first sets because they didn't realize anyone would take the game seriously enough to get multiple copies.

Really? How do you know? Does WotC release any numbers about their sales or financials at all? How many, say, Fifth Edition players you have around?

5th edition was released in 1997. It doesn't matter how well designed a game is, only a small percentage of players are going to stay with it for fifteen years. Measuring the impact of design decisions by that standard is just plain stupid.

Hmm, company which maintains its position by inertia of being the largest company for so long. Sound familiar?

The difference is WOTC continues to maintain that position and expand their player base even with no real competition. GW, on the other hand, decides to completely ignore marketing in the face of declining market share. Take away the advantage of their starting position and the company would be nothing.

Hey, closing stores, that sounds awfully familiar too. Or cutting costs by say, discontinuing your own magazine? How's your Duelist subscription?

Who cares? My once a month paper magazine was replaced by a website with similar (or better) content and a much higher update frequency. Oh yeah, and I now have to pay $0 for it instead of buying a monthly subscription. Replacing a product with a superior one is hardly the same as claiming improved profits as a result of one-time savings from abandoning some of your products.

Of which you have given absolutely no proof at all. YOU may not like how they're doing their thing, well to paraphrase you, that's too bad.

The proof is in GW's actions:

No marketing is short-sighted. It doesn't take an economic genius to figure out that advertising is a net gain in the long run, so GW's refusal to advertise can at best be explained by a short-sighted focus on immediate costs of advertising over the long-term gains from it. The less charitable explanation is that GW believes their own nonsense about the "GW hobby" and doesn't think that they have any competition.

Closing stores is short-sighted, in combination with no marketing. GW's biggest asset is their physical retail presence, so making those stores less accessible is throwing away future sales. Sure, there's an immediate savings from not paying those employees (and a nice dividend to pay out), but only at the cost of having a potential customer walk by during regular business hours, see that your store is closed, and never bother to come back.

Allowing sales pressure to drive game design choices is short-sighted. For example, making Vendettas overpowered to sell the new Valkyrie kit is a great strategy if you want immediate sales, but you only get that at a high price to the health of the game. Or, consider the terrain options in 6th. Do you really think it's a coincidence that the existing terrain kits got special rules (and good ones too), but we didn't get the kind of diversity in terrain options that a balanced game demands? Of course not. GW wanted to sell terrain kids, and they don't want you to scratchbuild terrain for something that doesn't have a model yet instead of buying more bastions and aegis lines.


And if that's not enough, just look at the reports GW is legally required to release as a publicly owned company. The numbers are not very good: sales volume is fairly flat, and the increase in profits has come from price increases and cost cutting. This is a pretty bad sign of a stagnating game, the player base is constant at best, and there's a limit to how much you can get from cost cutting and price increases before the whole thing collapses.