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 Alfndrate wrote:
I'm inclined to believe with you both. It seems like there is a little bit more of a "rallying" cry coming from bowloflostcells, but at the same time, Iron Dragon is right. The community as a whole should be able to get all the information they can about a company they're possibly spending hundreds of dollars on...

You've also got to look at where the information is coming from.
Ex employees complaining? Ask any HR director if they would hire an employee that vocally complains about a previous employer. They wont, because it's unprofessional to do so and a huge red flag. Maybe they no longer work there for the reasons they are stating. Maybe they're of the disgruntled type because they've been fired for incompetance, bad fit, really any reason a person feels bad for losing a job. Bad source of info even if they have documentation of Shawn eating babies.
New forum users, who ask a question about a service they have no knowledge of, and then become extremely opinionated about? Uhhh.... also bad.
Other commission painters? Sure, if they offer a comparable service, which they don't. Not for turnaround, not for volume, maybe higher quality, and only if they're currently booking projects. Otherwise... bad.
Ex employees that post bad paintjobs of lopsided tits and then singsong poor rhymes in bold yellow text because they found a bad BTP model from years ago? Lol maybe they painted it. Still, just an awful thing to do.

I've also seen a lot of praise in amongst the wiener waving and vitriol.
I'll still use BTP, because I've gotten good results from them. Painting, turnaround, and service all awesome. You can't argue that the webstore doesn't have great deals.

In conclusion, don't stock up on canned food because some hobo with a sandwich board told you the world was ending. It's very likely that he's just crazy.

Derr wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
I'm inclined to believe with you both. It seems like there is a little bit more of a "rallying" cry coming from bowloflostcells, but at the same time, Iron Dragon is right. The community as a whole should be able to get all the information they can about a company they're possibly spending hundreds of dollars on...

You've also got to look at where the information is coming from.
Ex employees complaining? Ask any HR director if they would hire an employee that vocally complains about a previous employer. They wont, because it's unprofessional to do so and a huge red flag. Maybe they no longer work there for the reasons they are stating. Maybe they're of the disgruntled type because they've been fired for incompetance, bad fit, really any reason a person feels bad for losing a job. Bad source of info even if they have documentation of Shawn eating babies.
New forum users, who ask a question about a service they have no knowledge of, and then become extremely opinionated about? Uhhh.... also bad.
Other commission painters? Sure, if they offer a comparable service, which they don't. Not for turnaround, not for volume, maybe higher quality, and only if they're currently booking projects. Otherwise... bad.
Ex employees that post bad paintjobs of lopsided tits and then singsong poor rhymes in bold yellow text because they found a bad BTP model from years ago? Lol maybe they painted it. Still, just an awful thing to do.

I've also seen a lot of praise in amongst the wiener waving and vitriol.
I'll still use BTP, because I've gotten good results from them. Painting, turnaround, and service all awesome. You can't argue that the webstore doesn't have great deals.

In conclusion, don't stock up on canned food because some hobo with a sandwich board told you the world was ending. It's very likely that he's just crazy.

Ok, so let me see if I've got this right. When asked the question, "Under what circumstances did you leave your last job?" or "Why did you leave your last job?" one should NEVER offer the actual accurate facts, and one should NEVER "vocally complain about a previous employer." That's ridiculous, and patently false, as I'm gainfully employed at a company whose HR director asked me those exact questions, and I told her the exact facts I've provided on this thread.

"Bad source of info even if they have documentation of Shawn eating babies." What would be a good source of info, in your opinion? It's been established that BTP struggles with criticism of any kind, constructive or otherwise, so whose experience would you consider valid? There are biases on both 'sides' of course. But facts that can be verified are facts.

You seem to be suggesting that no one has a right or valid perspective to offer ANY commentary/criticism of BTP because they're either:

a. angry/resentful
b. lying
c. not identical to BTP in size or productivity

Again, not going to mince words - that's just ridiculous.

You've had overall good to great experiences with BTP - that's great for you. Should someone point out that you really don't have a valid perspective since you're:

a. not a 'professional painter'
b. possibly a BTP mole/plant
c. disingenuous/contrarian/trolling

That would be silly, right?

Almost as silly as your comparison of the doomsday hobo to any of the posters on this thread. Your presuppositions are showing, and they're not pretty.

So, the question still stands? WHO would you consider useful and accurate sources of information regarding BTP, their products, their business and their owner?

Derr wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
I'm inclined to believe with you both. It seems like there is a little bit more of a "rallying" cry coming from bowloflostcells, but at the same time, Iron Dragon is right. The community as a whole should be able to get all the information they can about a company they're possibly spending hundreds of dollars on...

You've also got to look at where the information is coming from.
Ex employees complaining? Ask any HR director if they would hire an employee that vocally complains about a previous employer. They wont, because it's unprofessional to do so and a huge red flag. Maybe they no longer work there for the reasons they are stating. Maybe they're of the disgruntled type because they've been fired for incompetance, bad fit, really any reason a person feels bad for losing a job. Bad source of info even if they have documentation of Shawn eating babies.
New forum users, who ask a question about a service they have no knowledge of, and then become extremely opinionated about? Uhhh.... also bad.
Other commission painters? Sure, if they offer a comparable service, which they don't. Not for turnaround, not for volume, maybe higher quality, and only if they're currently booking projects. Otherwise... bad.
Ex employees that post bad paintjobs of lopsided tits and then singsong poor rhymes in bold yellow text because they found a bad BTP model from years ago? Lol maybe they painted it. Still, just an awful thing to do.

I've also seen a lot of praise in amongst the wiener waving and vitriol.
I'll still use BTP, because I've gotten good results from them. Painting, turnaround, and service all awesome. You can't argue that the webstore doesn't have great deals.

In conclusion, don't stock up on canned food because some hobo with a sandwich board told you the world was ending. It's very likely that he's just crazy.

I'm pretty sure that personally attacking users of this forum is disallowed. Tread cautiously.

I listen to my local doomsday hobo... In fact I will be laughing on November 13th when I'm zapped up to the mother ship and saved because I've been wearing peanut butter in my britches for the past 2 months...

But seriously, I've never received commission work from BTP, nor will I. Their price point is way too high for me to even consider getting my Rasputina box painted to a decent standard. Not to mention the pricing on some of the stuff for sale in their store.

Rant about the Webstore's "Awesome" deals:


Shawn irks me as a person, yes he's very peppy and happy, but at the same time he seems to make snide little one liners to his staff, and occasionally about his staff... If I remember correctly, Ben2 got a weird amount of gak when he started (right around the time I stopped watching BTP's videos).

Idk, I also didn't like the tirades he would go on. Yes, it does get boring when you're talking about politics for 20 minutes when all I want to do is look at the models, but that's a personal thing.

If you support him and BTP, that's your choice, but at the same time, others might like to give information damming him just as much as you're giving information praising him.

I'm not saying don't choose BTP

Uh, Derr,

Thanks for the peek behind the curtain of the Harvard Business School.

Even more insightful was your critique of my painting and Bob Ridolfi's sculpting.

But you went too far when you criticised my poetry.

That really hurt, man.

 TrojanArt Painting wrote:
Uh, Derr,

Thanks for the peek behind the curtain of the Harvard Business School.

Even more insightful was your critique of my painting and Bob Ridolfi's sculpting.

But you went too far when you criticised my poetry.

That really hurt, man.

*rubs eyes*

I'm not attacking anyone personally, it's just business. Or how I see it. But yes- if under any circumstance (especially at this pay grade) a new hire came to me with a sob story about the last job, or really said anything other than that they felt that their skills and standards were higher value than the current employer could offer... you get the buzzer noise and your resume is kept "on file".

Sometimes when choosing a painting service, I like to ask myself a series of simple questions to help me along:
"Does this company have a name that implies the can put color on things, or does it imply that it will let a bunch of sweaty Greeks into my home?"
"How long have they been producing professional grade work?"
"How many projects have they completed this quarter?"
"Are they Blue Table Painting? Because if not, they better be."






Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alfndrate-
How much would YOU charge for that $800 Cryx army right now? Cost for getting the models and putting paint to tabletop standard? About $800? More?

I've also noticed that no one openly displays prices when talking about competition. Sure you say you can do better, but can I get a quote right now? Can I call you right now and talk about how awesome setting up my order is? At any time of the day, any time of the year?"
If you answered anything but No to any of those, you're probably just fooling yourself.

Note on their store .
"Cryx Army Lot 2157 Summary
One lage Cryx army. The paint is worn in some places, but overall the painting is very nice. "

You 100% sure this isn't a trade in ?

Derr wrote:
Alfndrate-
How much would YOU charge for that $800 Cryx army right now? Cost for getting the models and putting paint to tabletop standard? About $800? More?

I've also noticed that no one openly displays prices when talking about competition. Sure you say you can do better, but can I get a quote right now? Can I call you right now and talk about how awesome setting up my order is? At any time of the day, any time of the year?"
If you answered anything but No to any of those, you're probably just fooling yourself.

Retail cost (BTP doesn't spend this much, even if it was a trade-in): 874.68 USD.

I would probably accept 200 dollars cash or 300 in services, and then probably attempt to sell it AS IS for 500 dollars. The description itself even says that it paintjob is kinda of worn. If this was my business, I wouldn't put that descriptor on anything that I or my company didn't touch. If I touched it up, and made it to a certain level, I would probably sell it for 800 dollars. You're telling me that the 63 dollar savings is worth that paint job? Hell, even if I bought them off of miniature market, spent the 12 dollars in glue I might spend, and the 5 bucks of basing material and 3 bucks for elmer's glue, I would still be saving over 100 dollars of Shawn's price.

Selling that army as is for 800 dollars is just as bad as the people that put a 3 color paintjob on ebay and try to sell it as "pro-painted"

And the bit about calling me at anytime of the day or year, you can't even expect to get an answer at 3 in the morning with BTP, so please leave your outrageous claims at the door, and stick to something based in at least a bit of reality...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

catachan1brainleaf wrote:
Note on their store .
"Cryx Army Lot 2157 Summary
One lage Cryx army. The paint is worn in some places, but overall the painting is very nice. "

You 100% sure this isn't a trade in ?

It is, someone that cares as much for the reputation of his company as Shaun does, wouldn't put up an army painted by his company and say, "the paint is worn in some places, but overall the painting is very nice."

Can we just let this thread die already?

It was nothing more than a bitch-fest witch hunt at best and now it is descending into insults and even more bitching..

Please, some mod with sense close this thing down.

Bought a batch of used miniatures from BTP. Roughly 40% off retail. Sounded like a fair deal.

No mention in description that parts were missing. Lots of bits were missing. Customer service reply was "you get what you see in the picture" . Their pictures are so small that you can;t tell if small bits are missing. Pictures were taken down as soon as sale was made, so no way to go back and "zoom in" so to speak.

It seems BTP will miss its KS goal by far. I have been observing their KS and it has lost pretty much all its momentum around the time the controversial discussions all around the web began.

I still watch their channel and BTP reacts to some points the EDIT: LANGUAGE StormRiders have been making... well without answering to them directly, rather making it seem they explain stuff at random but you can clearly sense they want things to get straight in their sense. From entire videos dedicated to some issues to little comments here and there.

well, one of the concerns I have had about their ks is the question of what portion of the money will be going to fulfilling their past obligations. They have already made mention that they've had a very difficult time keeping the lights on and keeping people payed. In the past half year people have been complaining that they have put in an order for models and waited a month without the models being purchased. If they are having a cash flow problem with their current operations, there would be a very large temptation to divert funds from the ks to fund projects that they have already committed to, but didn't previously have the cash to fulfill.

I also wondered how they would be selecting the lists that they plan to pre-build. If you think about every codex and every possible permutation of units in every codex, they would need to keep an inordinate amount of inventory on hand in order to quickly fulfill any order - or else it just turns into a custom job as they are quickly painting armies that people place orders for (isn't this already what they are doing?). They mentioned that they would be building the competitive lists that you see at tournaments like nova or adeptacon, but is that all? If you have actually looked at the ultra-competitive lists from those tournaments, you might notice that they are not very fun to play. There's a lot of spam as everything has been minmaxed. I think that the number of people who will want tony kopac's razorspam list might be somewhat limited. Even so, how are they predicting the distribution of demand for any of these ultra-competitive lists? They haven't shown any ability or methodology for this forecasting. What scares me even more is if this does take off. Imagine going into your store and seeing that everybody is fielding these ultra-competitive lists. It might be time to play a different game.

What about fluff lists? Some of the most fun armies to play are the ones that aren't truly effective but are a blast. Now we really come down to the problem of a huge array of stocking options that BTP would need to figure out. Are they going to have a SoB army on hand just in case somebody wanted one? What about a grot army or templars or footdar? Build them all? build some? which ones? how are they doing this selection? If you're going to invest a hundred in this hairbrain idea, you better know beforehand. As somebody who spends quite a bit of his work week in the investing world, this would be my advice.

My other concern is about the quality of the painting for these pre-built armies. BTP has in the past demonstrated a lack of consistency in their painting. Most armies are painted at a 3/5 level, with only a few select special characters receiving the '5' treatment. After looking at the photographs on their website (and I have spent a lot of time looking at them) I have to conclude that the 5's are no better than the lowest tabletop standard of many other commission painters. Often times the 3's are not passable, sometimes they are appalling. And these are models painted for somebody who has already paid their money. These are being done with the knowledge in mind that the customer may return them due to dissatisfaction with the paint job. Think of it as painting with somebody watching over your shoulder. If employees are cranking out a massive numbers of armies at a 3/5 paint job with no customer in mind, I'm sure that the results would be even worse. After all, if you're painting 30 baal predators, what difference does it make if one or two of them have runny paint? But knowing the way my dice roll, I'm sure I'd get one of those runny paint predators if I were to order one.

Finally, I'm worried what the success of their ks would do to the flgs. BTP has already become extremely dominant in the custom painting market, stealing business from many more qualified painters. If BTP is able to steal a large market share of the model sales market, I'm worried this will spell doom for many flgs that provide a place for us to play our game.

In short, there are a lot of problems with their ks, and I have a hard time recommending dropping a cent into it. Unless, of course, you really just want the life-coaching of shawn.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
ok so I just watched one of BTP's new videos where they discuss the issues of tiny blurry images on their website and a few few other scattered issues. This is a load of crap. Shawn would be better as a used car salesman, or selling amway or something.

He makes some elaborate excuse for the blurry images saying that he's trying to represent the size on my computer screen. How does he know how large my computer screen is? Also, there's a big between low resolution pictures and small size. You can take a picture that doesn't encompass a lot of area by moving the camera closer. You don't have to take a picture of the whole table and the whole office, and then crop out 10 pixels across of models. Yeah I'm exaggerating, but his bs explanation does not make any effort towards explaining why the pictures are so blurry. I'm still convinced that the blurriness is for the purpose of hiding how badly the miniatures are painted.

Also, he goes on about how solo painters are suffering. Yes Shawn, they are suffering because you are stealing their business. If you listen to 40k radio or you go on MWG, Shawn has thought to endorse these people so that you will hear nothing but good things about him. Shawn is good at marketing himself, he's not good at getting models painted well, and apparently he's not very good at operating a business.

The real problem is that most of the commission painters that you see on the internet, the ones that Shawn calls "solo-painters" won't sell you anything that looks like Shawn's lvl 7 or below. But they charge you for the price of Shawn's level 3s. For many commission painters that I have talked to, there is a level of pride in their art - but you aren't paying a premium. This isn't the same thing as a McDonald's/Masa (if you know NYC restaurants) analogy. For both the solo-painter and BTP work, you're still paying the Masa price. But with BTP you're getting a McDonald's hamburger. But with the solo-painter, you're getting world-class omakase.

I like how one of the two guys, belloflostsouls, that are openly telling people to NOT goto btp, is the dude that started this thread asking for opinions on their service, as though he were considering getting some work done by them...

But then takes it off track completely and just does everything he can to slander them

Yes, you have no axe to grind at all..

Thead should have been locked, a long long time ago.

Edit:

Does anybody have any experience with this painting service? They aren't the cheapest by any stretch of the imagination, but it seems that they are very professional/reliable. I'm wondering how good the quality is. To be honest, the pictures on their website are so low resolution that it's very hard to tell what their products look like. Also, a lot of their models look very... splotchy or pasty or chalky - but it's hard to tell because their pictures are very very low res.

http://www.bluetablepainting.com/view_image.php?imgID=125903

They've got some videos on youtube, and some of the models they use in their videos look... not so impressive. The Ultramarines in this video are apparently for sale, but they look like they just went over them with a can of blue spray paint basically:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO9UACXR0RY&feature=relmfu

I kinda get the feeling that they pump out so many models that they might not really be paying attention to what they are doing. They have these different "levels" of painting, and I think that the standard level is level 3. For most of my models, I'd be getting them painted at a 3.

Can I get any opinions from people on this forum about BTP?

Is the original post. Seems innocent and like he doesnt know much about btp, then soon he writes paragraphs about what an evil company they are. What a terrible troll..

Edit #2:

On the subject of BTP themselves.

Should we, the customer, care that shawn made a mistake years ago in regards to tax, even though he's already paid for that mistake both in losing the respect of his peers, and money? God no. Why does that matter when its already been solved?
How he treated previous employees... Sure, it doesnt sound very pretty, but again, was years ago. How he treats his employees now is the only thing that matters to someone getting their models painted by them now. Unless you get a time machine, go back in time to get your stuff painted by the guys there from years ago.
The images on the site before you get your army? Yeah, they're pretty crappy. I remember reading somewhere that you can ask for a video instead, though it cost a few more dollars. Whats a few extra dollars to make sure your army that cost probably 500-1000, is exactly how you want it?

Having spent an incredibly interesting 45 mins reading this, I've reached the following conclusions.

1) I think its crazy to give BTP a penny. This Shawn person sounds about as trustworthy as a bag of weasels on PCP.

2) I have been painting a year, I've painted 35 models give or take. I have often thought I should give a comission painter a go for a few models. But after reading this, I'm glad I started off a year ago. It's been the most amazing learning curve and there's not a squad or model I've not learned something new on or improved on previous work. To the OP....its a journey I would take time and again to have that exhilaration of finishing your first model, then your first squad, and the satisfaction of saying "I painted that myself" is top notch, there's not a person on Dakka who would disagree.

The best advice I have for you is that unless there's an incredibly good reason to not do it, pick your army, flesh it out on paper, get your shopping list together and DIY. You'll be a more fufilled person for it!

3) The OP is more knowledgeable than he let's on lol.

4) this thread needs locked.

I don't know if it needs to be locked.

I think this kind of discussion about a major comission service is good. People weigh in on either side with their opinions and sometimes it gets a little hot.

Someone who wants to drop alot of money to get a army painted should know what they are getting into. How are they going to know that without threads like this one?

I say leave it up and let the reader make of it what they will.

Some facts about BTP, don't believe me? perfectly fine.
However remember what Im posting, and see for yourself the next time you look at BTP items.

Tip #1. BTP knows how to operate their camera, don't be fooled in overly blurry or small pictures.
Trust me, they zoom in perfectly for items that are painted by their competent painters.
The rest that are too small or blurry to figure out? Its simple, those are done by their lower tier new introduced painters.
They'll obscure something to look passable, YOUR imagination makes up what you want to see.

Tip #2. BTP does have some competent painters, some are actually talented don't get me wrong.
However, the ratio of work load they have vs what competent painters they have always shows.
The same level paint job, done by different painters will be stark as day and night.
Why? Because a pro painter that knows how to effectively use every stroke, and place the correct layer at the correct spot,
with the correct paint viscosity to where its supposed to flow, can produce a lvl 3 paint job at the same speed as a newly introduced labor painter trying a lvl 1.
While their pro painter's lvl 1 will look every bit superior than their labor painter's lvl 3.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ma55ter_fett wrote:
I don't know if it needs to be locked..

There are no reason to lock this thread, or any threads similar to this.
This thread is asking for an opinion, logic dictates the truth is what the public desires, not some blatant advertisement.
If the opinion echoes BTP to be awful, so be it if its accurate, why should it be silenced if the opinion reflects negatively towards BTP?

As far as I know BTP doesn't pay dakka enough to help silence free speech :3

I have deliberately stepped away from this thread so forum members could air their views without feeling they needed to be willing to engage in a muck slinging contest .i think it`s important the members have somewhere to have their say good or bad regarding BTP esp when they are being asked to hand over their hard earned cash .simply coming on demanding the thread should be shut down helps nobody .if it annoys you that much just step back like i did and let people have their say .or ignore it all together like i do with most of the forum which holds no interest for me ,it would be like me reading the 40k section deciding oh i don't play or like this game these threads are rubbish they should be shut down .

catachan1brainleaf wrote:
I have deliberately stepped away from this thread so forum members could air their views without feeling they needed to be willing to engage in a muck slinging contest .i think it`s important the members have somewhere to have their say good or bad regarding BTP esp when they are being asked to hand over their hard earned cash .simply coming on demanding the thread should be shut down helps nobody .if it annoys you that much just step back like i did and let people have their say .or ignore it all together like i do with most of the forum which holds no interest for me ,it would be like me reading the 40k section deciding oh i don't play or like this game these threads are rubbish they should be shut down .

No, thats not what annoys me. People are of course welcome to their views and opinions.

What annoys me is that in the original post, the guy asking the question of how good we think btp is, as though they know nothing of the company, then a few pages later rant about how much of a bad person shawn is, and how terrible btp is... Clearly the OP just used the original post as some kind of troll bait, and got what he wanted, a thread 8 pages long of people arguing about btp.. His inquiry wasnt sincere, it was just designed to troll.. That, imo, is why this thread should be locked.

Dragonzord wrote:

the guy asking the question of how good we think btp is, as though they know nothing of the company, then a few pages later rant about how much of a bad person shawn is, and how terrible btp is... .

Dragonzord, there is a chance that you may be attempting to derail this thread by flaming me, but I'm not going to engage in a flamewar with you. So I'll just make a few points once, and that's it. I won't be replying to you anymore - and I'm discouraging anybody else from coming to my defense or arguing with Dragonzord on my behalf. I couldn't care less what someone like Dragonzord says or thinks about me, so please don't fight with him, let him say whatever he wants in response to this. The thread that has resulted from my original post is a repository of the truth about BTP. Let's not muck this up by mudslinging.

But the truth is, I had no intentions of starting a thread to bring down BTP. Dragonzord uses the phrase "a few pages later" but you must remember that time is not measured in pages. Even a week after starting the thread, I was still recommending BTP if you were looking for a painting service that excels in professionalism See 9/26:

bowloflostcells wrote:

I don't think BTP lacks anything in the way of professionalism. These guys are top notch in terms of responding to you, organizing your order and having everything shipped back to you in a timely manner.

But within the week from starting the thread, I had been inundated with responses and private messages full of pictures of much better (and cheaper) painting services. By this point, BTP became a painting service that I couldn't recommend based on the quality of their work, but I still admired them for professionalism.

And then the truth came out.

I didn't ask (or know about) the multitude of unhappy employees, or the ethical issues surrounding BTP. In fact, I had actually forgotten about this thread and was surprised to see it pop back up on the forum. Somebody bumped the thread on 10/30 (over a month after the first post) mentioning a comment thread on a news piece on tabletopgamingnews.com. I was appalled at what I read and began to talk about it. Subsequently the comment thread on that news site was locked, and people flooded over here. This had nothing to do with me.

I could not have planned for BTP to launch a kickstarter, or for tabletopgamingnews to write an article on it, or for (numerous) people to blast the painting service on the comment thread, or for those people to stream here. If I had such powers of prognostication, you can be sure I wouldn't be using it to scheme against BTP.

At one point I was looking for a painting service. Had I known about the ethical issues surrounding BTP I would never have considered them. I would like others to be able to make an informed choice if they are looking for a painting service, which is why I hope this thread stays alive. I didn't start or cause the outrage surrounding BTP, Shawn did. If you are looking for a painting service, there are many excellent alternatives at a variety of price points which all - universally - offer higher quality work. Peruse through the first three pages of this thread for names.

Like I said, I won't be offering a rebuttal to Dragonzord's inevitable response. This thread isn't about me, this is about BTP. Dragonzord, if you want to attack me on Dakka Dakka, please start a new thread to do so. Thank you.

I just watched this video that BTP made where they respond to the blurry website photos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP8PUr9qgjE

7:25 into the video: He admits that their photos are deliberately blurry because he wants you to see what a model looks like from across a table. He then tries to justify not showing a customer the details of their purchase and explains that he wants the photos to look crappy so that a badly painted model can still look better than its badly taken photo.

To quote the BTP guy from 7:25 onwards,

"Our photos are purposely not very good uhm they are meant to show the scrutiny at the proper level. Now what's funny is, you might say, well Shawn why don't you show us you know this HD thing. Well that would actually be better for me, because, uh *inaudible* one, what I usually get back is these models look better in person than on your website. That's what I want. I don't them to look, I don't want what I'm presenting to you on the web to look worse than ... excuse me, I don't want it to look better than what you see when you actually open your package."

Meh. I've never used BTP's services myself, or any other painting service. But BTP is definetly not on my list of options. This entire segment of the video drips with contempt for their customers. They're arguing that if they show you real, accurate photos of their work, it will somehow look better than when you recieve the model. Obfuscating their product is such an alien concept for a trustworthy business.

From a professional standpoint, thats's a load of bollocks. I absolutely want every shot I take to look *exactly* like the products a customer gets. So does every other commission painter worth their salt.

I posted a video yesterday because I had really had enough of BTP.

The guy says so many things to harm others while constantly bragging about himself.

And I have had enough, so I'm firing back.

Watch it here:

http://youtu.be/8Kj1lq6zt98

Being Veterans Day, I thought back to several really hair-raising experiences I went through in 15+ years in the USN and I imaged what it would have been like for the BTP guy to have been at my side. Made me laugh and smile.

Also watch my Veterans Day message here if you like:

http://youtu.be/iVYgFouMr6g

Happy Veterans Day everyone and God Bless America.

"Our photos are purposely not very good uhm they are meant to show the scrutiny at the proper level. Now what's funny is, you might say, well Shawn why don't you show us you know this HD thing. Well that would actually be better for me, because, uh *inaudible* one, what I usually get back is these models look better in person than on your website. That's what I want. I don't them to look, I don't want what I'm presenting to you on the web to look worse than ... excuse me, I don't want it to look better than what you see when you actually open your package."

I've been lurking this thread for awhile, but haven't really felt the need to contribute one way or the other. This however..... Wow. Just wow. This quote is absolutely mind boggling. The logic involved is a complete plate of noodles. I suppose it makes sense from a business standpoint, if you have a turd of a product and are trying to pass it off as a "not-turd."

 Lint wrote:

"Our photos are purposely not very good uhm they are meant to show the scrutiny at the proper level. Now what's funny is, you might say, well Shawn why don't you show us you know this HD thing. Well that would actually be better for me, because, uh *inaudible* one, what I usually get back is these models look better in person than on your website. That's what I want. I don't them to look, I don't want what I'm presenting to you on the web to look worse than ... excuse me, I don't want it to look better than what you see when you actually open your package."

I've been lurking this thread for awhile, but haven't really felt the need to contribute one way or the other. This however..... Wow. Just wow. This quote is absolutely mind boggling. The logic involved is a complete plate of noodles. I suppose it makes sense from a business standpoint, if you have a turd of a product and are trying to pass it off as a "not-turd."

Yeah, I couldn't believe it myself. That's why I included the video link, and the timestamp of 7:25 so people can find it. I really didn't expect that.

"Our photos are purposely not very good uhm they are meant to show the scrutiny at the proper level. Now what's funny is, you might say, well Shawn why don't you show us you know this HD thing. Well that would actually be better for me, because, uh *inaudible* one, what I usually get back is these models look better in person than on your website. That's what I want. I don't them to look, I don't want what I'm presenting to you on the web to look worse than ... excuse me, I don't want it to look better than what you see when you actually open your package."

Wow.

Well.

That's the end of me being neutral and giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Wow.

Thing is he then says go to our facebook we have really nice pictures there .i think looking for any sense in one of Shawn's rambles is a bit of a fools errand .

Damning with faint praise i think is the term for his attitude to to other commission painters .and some of his comments on TGN were more in keeping with Saruman from the bbc radio adaptation of lord of the rings than a sane man .lots of woe is me melodramatic ranting mixed with cheap jibes .i really do think the man now really believes he can spout any ole nonsense and people will buy it .anybody make anything of his ratting levels thing ?

BTP have moved to a 1-10 scale like cmon but insists their level 3 is really like cmon`s level 4-7 ? what that whole scale makes no sense ,just put up good clear pictures of your stuff and people will buy it if the price and look are right for them .i just picked up a nice JVC hd camcorder for less than £160 and BTP cant ? iv always been stunned by just how bad the pictures are on BTP`s site esp given they have somebody who`s job it is just to do that, it even has it`s own section .so yip id say the naff pics are deliberate it`s up to you if you see sense or listen to Shawn`s reasoning .

 LunaHound wrote:


Tip #1. BTP knows how to operate their camera, don't be fooled in overly blurry or small pictures.
Trust me, they zoom in perfectly for items that are painted by their competent painters.
The rest that are too small or blurry to figure out? Its simple, those are done by their lower tier new introduced painters.
They'll obscure something to look passable, YOUR imagination makes up what you want to see.

 Iron Dragon wrote:
I just watched this video that BTP made where they respond to the blurry website photos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP8PUr9qgjE

7:25 into the video: He admits that their photos are deliberately blurry because he wants you to see what a model looks like from across a table. He then tries to justify not showing a customer the details of their purchase and explains that he wants the photos to look crappy so that a badly painted model can still look better than its badly taken photo.

To quote the BTP guy from 7:25 onwards,
"Our photos are purposely not very good uhm they are meant to show the scrutiny at the proper level. Now what's funny is, you might say, well Shawn why don't you show us you know this HD thing. Well that would actually be better for me, because, uh *inaudible* one, what I usually get back is these models look better in person than on your website. That's what I want. I don't them to look, I don't want what I'm presenting to you on the web to look worse than ... excuse me, I don't want it to look better than what you see when you actually open your package."

I knew it, and this is why BTP is mostly incompetent, and a scammer if I were to be blunt.
Also, don't expect that video to stay up long.


This was supposed to be comment towards the video but of course, it doesnt go through

You speak of misrepresenting, you speak of divergence in customer's expectation vs what they actually received.
You know why this happens? Its because you use blurry photos in the first place.
By doing that, the customer is using their imagination to cover the vague obscureness of the photo they are seeing.
Yet this is why you never hear anything but customer praises when you see GMM studios http://www.gmmstudios.com/ or NukeArts studio http://www.facebook.com/nukesarts.
They do it so well, that there can be no discrepancy to their photos.

I just watched the video. That's bullcrap, and unprofessional to boot. Purposefully low res? That's like saying your photos are purposefully low res on a dating site because you look better in real life.

How weird. Their Kickstarter seems to have lost $2000 since I last looked. I guess the gaming industry is doomed.