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do you guys feel that the choppa boyz + trukk combo has any role in 6th ed? Yea, with overwatch, charging isn't nearly as good. But do you guys still use this combo anymore?

Eh?

They're still great. You just need to be careful about charging anything that has flamers in it. I still use my three-trukk combo to great effect.

Overwatch hurts, yeah, but it doesn't mean they are suddenly of no use. They are great for assaulting vehicles, or weaker units - particularly longer range units that wont take the assault well.

I don't personally play Orks but recently a friend of mine beat a Space Wolf army and he used a couple of the classic 'Trukks filled with angry guys' units to good effect. I don't think a single unit of Choppas + Trukk can do much on its own, other than munching on small support units, but when supporting an army filled with more pressing targets and hardier units I think they can still be playable, just not (usually) optimal.

Honestly, a single Trukk rarely worked in 5th edition as it is.

I disagree that Trukks are weaker - in my experience its been a give-and-take situation. They are tougher in some aspects, weaker in others. Non ap1/ap2 pens need a 5+ to kill, where they needed a 4+ to kill in 5th. AP 2 is the same as 5th, ap1 would have killed your trukk in 5th anyway. ]

Glances in 5th needed 5+ to kill - so one in three glances would peg it. Now you HAVE to get three glances before it dies.

This combo still works great, but you always need more than one trukk and double charging with two squads is still a really good idea.

Blindly charging a unit that can overwatch right out of your trukk is bad... BUT... charging a unit with a single deffkopta, THEN charging with the boys after the cheap deff kopta (35pts) draws out the overwatch is good...

OR... Multicharging with one trukk full o Boys into Multiple units to draw out ALL of their overwatches... then charging other trukks into individual units is also good...

Basically you just have to learn to play around overwatch and they are great : )

I never thought about multicharging to draw multiple Overwatches, that's a great tactic right there!

or you can do what I do, I ask my opponent before the game if it's alright if I proxy my sluggas as shootas. Most people don't see any problem as all this applies to my 90-120 boyz.

If anything, Trukks got a slight boost in that their explosion is still Str3 for the passangers. All other explosions are Str4(poor Dark Eldar )

As a Guard player, I have made a lot of Overwatch attacks. Only once did it really accomplish anything, and more often that not there were no wounds caused. So I wouldn't change tactics because of it.

When I play my Guard, I shoot the Trukks first as they are easy targets and I prefer the boyz on the ground. When I play my Wolves, I don't worry about boyz, let them come.

 Grey Templar wrote:
If anything, Trukks got a slight boost in that their explosion is still Str3 for the passangers. All other explosions are Str4(poor Dark Eldar )

I am sure that open topped vehicles still explode at str 3 for passengers. I don't have my book on hand but the rule is in the open topped vehicles section.

 Warboss Brokentoof wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
If anything, Trukks got a slight boost in that their explosion is still Str3 for the passangers. All other explosions are Str4(poor Dark Eldar )

I am sure that open topped vehicles still explode at str 3 for passengers. I don't have my book on hand but the rule is in the open topped vehicles section.

all vehicle explosions that I know of are now STR 4 (including open topped battlewagons....) EXCEPT for the Trukk due to ramshackle chart... Trukks explode at S3 still! so likely to take 4 wounds on 12 guys, vs 10 wounds on 20 guys if a wagon explodes (paper saves not taken into account)

Hmmmm

So if I'm running multiple trucks of choppa/sluggas with the goal of multi-assaulting, how should I configure my boys? Nob? Klaw? Extra weapons? What if I run some of my trucks with choppas and some of my trucks with shootas?

ArmageddonBorn wrote:
So if I'm running multiple trucks of choppa/sluggas with the goal of multi-assaulting, how should I configure my boys? Nob? Klaw? Extra weapons? What if I run some of my trucks with choppas and some of my trucks with shootas?

Only if you want to get your shootas somewhere quick, then disgorge them.

Trukks have an average 2 turn life expectancy. By turn three, they will likely be dead or immobilized. As such, I'd recommend against using them as mobile firing platforms.

The only changes I made to my slugga boyz, was giving my Nobs 'Eavy Armour. Past that, it's the usual 11 sluggas + Nob with PK, BP, and EA.

Trukks with RR are cheap and get you into combat as quick as possible. Ramming things still works a treat, the boyz are still good but trukk armies were never amazing unless used very skillfully.

Pretty much what Kharrak said. Heavy Weapons aren't really useful for Trukk Boyz. Also I'll add that previously I viewed Red Paint Job as pretty optional on Trukks considering how fast they move.

Now, since you're limited to only moving 6" before disembarking, combined with random charge length, I think that extra inch is immensely more valuable and Red Paint Job is a "Must Have" in most cases for Trukks. Being able to move 7" and disembark and assault is very useful.

Red Paint is actually rather interesting now.

Though it no longer grants the "oh you need to hit me on 6's because I moved farther than 6"), it does help with the assaults, as you say.

But, points are hard to come by, and the usual adage of keeping trukks as cheap as possible precisely due to their short life expectancy is still very important. Reinforced Rams are still priority, I'd say. If you have 15 - 25pts to spare, toss in the Red Paint.

Murrdox wrote:
Pretty much what Kharrak said. Heavy Weapons aren't really useful for Trukk Boyz.

sorry for the newb question, I haven't played this game since 3rd edition.... What is the reason for not taking rokkit launchas or big shootas?

I took choppa boys out of my list when 4th ed codex dropped. Shoota boys all the way.

Three trukks of them can help concentrate fire where you need it. Take a big shoota in the mob and a big shoota on the trukk and your shots really start to add up.

What's this illusion of trukks being stronger? Yes, an autocannon is now less likely to kill a trukk with a single shot, but those riflemen dreads that everybody brought (and are now bringing more of, thanks to fliers), will over all kill them faster than ever before.

But that's not the worst of it. Now you can only move 6" and disembark. In 5th ed you drove forward 13", piled out 2", waaaaughed for up to 6", and then charged for 6" more. That 27" threat range just got cut in half. And that's before you consider all of the other problems for horde units and crippling problems for assault units.

Really, there appears just one thing to do for former assault horde commanders. In the case of orks, I agree...

Serder wrote:or you can do what I do, I ask my opponent before the game if it's alright if I proxy my sluggas as shootas. Most people don't see any problem as all this applies to my 90-120 boyz.

I never took the Battle Wagon plunge and still use all Trukks with my speed freaks. I have since the Armageddon campaign days. I find the big shoota helpful with my trukkers. For 5 pts its worth the annoyance every turn.

"Ok these guys can't do anything but the big shooter can shoot from 36" away... <Dakka><Dakka><Dakka> Hey I killed a guy!"

"Grumble Grumble...I gotta kill those guys."

Points well spent

Now that Orks have units like Big Mek shokk attack gun, Tankbustas, Lootas, Flash Gits. I don't bother with rokkits on my Trukkers Units. I used to load out all rokkits just to try and hit things. With those ranged units, they throw so much firepower, they usually hit something.

My twin linked trakks and buggies even collect dust now. The deff koptas are much better.

Phydox wrote:

Points well spent

Trukks are pretty handy. You need them in numbers.

The main advice is assault in numbers, if you assault with two mobs, then only one gets overwatched and only one nob can be challenged.
Having squads of 12 is not very forgiving, so if you assault with too many or too few or position a trukk badly then expect to lose precious scoring units.

Rocket buggies are still awesome for accompanying them. There is a limited on how much av10 any enemy can remove, you'll find most trukks will die when they are next door to the enemy so the boyz can assault straight in.

The issue is they run out of steam after 1000 points. Then by 1500 points you have 72 scoring models, which is not nearly enough truth be told. Now allies and a hardy gunline will probably push their viable points total but you can no longer expect them to overwhelm the enemy like good orks like to.

 frgsinwntr wrote:
Blindly charging a unit that can overwatch right out of your trukk is bad... BUT... charging a unit with a single deffkopta, THEN charging with the boys after the cheap deff kopta (35pts) draws out the overwatch is good...

OR... Multicharging with one trukk full o Boys into Multiple units to draw out ALL of their overwatches... then charging other trukks into individual units is also good...

Basically you just have to learn to play around overwatch and they are great : )

This is pretty much it. IF not, ALWAYS use 2 trukks to do the same job a 20x boyz mob does but faster and with an extra nob. Assault the same unit with 2 trukk mobz. But just like in 5th, you need more then just 1 or 2 trukks, your gunna need a bunch

So, you don't HAVE to overwatch the first thing that comes by. You can always hold off to overwatch something else in the charge phase.

I mean, if I saw a mob of sluggas and a deff kopta, and the deff kopta charged, I would certainly risk not getting to overwatch against the kopta at all if it meant I had a chance to overwatch the sluggas.

 Ailaros wrote:
But that's not the worst of it. Now you can only move 6" and disembark. In 5th ed you drove forward 13", piled out 2", waaaaughed for up to 6", and then charged for 6" more. That 27" threat range just got cut in half. And that's before you consider all of the other problems for horde units and crippling problems for assault units.

Wait, what? Cut in half? Your average transport assault is only 2" shorter than it was in 5th.

5th ed = 12" move + 3" disembark shunt + 6" assault = 21" threat range / assault distance.
6th ed = 6" move + 6" disembark + average 7" assault = 19" average assault distance, 24" total threat range.

If you Waaagh...
5th ed = 12" move + 3" disembark shunt + 3.5" run + 6" assault = 24" - 25" average assault distance, 27" threat range.
6th ed = 6" move + 6" disembark + average 10.5" assault = 22" - 23" average assault distance, 24" threat range.

While your non-waaagh transport assault balances out, I agree that your waaagh transport assaults took a hit - but it's certainly not "cut in half" by any measure.

You missed the run in your first calculate.

And an "average 7 inch charge" doesn't mean much when you roll poorly on the charge roll. The cost of failure for making it into assault with a bunch of boyz is catastrophic. Say hello to two overwatches and an entire turn out in the open.

 Ailaros wrote:
You missed the run in your first calculate.

And an "average 7 inch charge" doesn't mean much when you roll poorly on the charge roll. The cost of failure for making it into assault with a bunch of boyz is catastrophic. Say hello to two overwatches and an entire turn out in the open.

Check again. First calculate was non-waaagh assault, in which case you would not be running prior to assault.
Second calc was a waagh assault, which calculated in runs.

Failing assaults is a bummer, but it's never once been a deal breaker for me. The vast majority of the time I've been able to get close enough to the enemy to use even below average rolls. Of all my games of 6th so far, I've only failed non-terrain assaults thrice. The rest of the failed assaults were through terrain, which wasn't exactly a guaranteed situation in 5th either.

Naturally my experience isn't a representation for the entire hobby, but the only way you could have your assault distance half that of the average in 5th, was if you rolled double 1 to get out of the vehicle, and double 1 to assult. I certainly don't think assault is dead in any way. Blunted due to Overwatch, yes, but not something to be discarded.

 Kharrak wrote:

But, points are hard to come by, and the usual adage of keeping trukks as cheap as possible precisely due to their short life expectancy is still very important. Reinforced Rams are still priority, I'd say. If you have 15 - 25pts to spare, toss in the Red Paint.

I agree. Reinforced Ram may be the one upgrade you definitely want, for the reroll if you fail moving flat out.

What about grotriggers and stikkbomb chukka? Are they worth it?

Phydox wrote:
What about grotriggers and stikkbomb chukka? Are they worth it?

Considering the low initiative for Orks, stikkbombs have not much use, less so now that Furious Charge no longer grants +1 Initiative. You can use 'em if you're planning on assaulting Tau / Necrons / Orks through cover so that you can hit at the same time, or use 'em to assault non LC termies in cover and keep your ability to hit first. But past that, they have no use.

Grot Riggers are great, but I'd keep them on Deff Dreads and Battlewagons. They are great for fixing immobilized results due to Dangerous Terrain, but you're already getting a re-roll on that anyway with Reinforced Ram. Considering the urgency of the Trukk's lifespan, keeping the boyz inside for a 50% chance to fix the immobilized result is generally a decision I've never liked making. If the trukk gets immobilized, I get my boyz out and run to whatever objective I deem them most useful given the situation.