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 Fafnir wrote:

djones520 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 DemetriDominov wrote:
How much of an idiot do you have to be to actually think that a model wearing a helmet with very obvious optical ports has no eyes.....

Optical ports are not eyes.

Neither is plastic molded into the shape of eyes. It's just plastic.

But then, what really constitutes an 'eye' in the first place? I think it's about time we got epistomological in here.

I think we should just hold vision tests for every model before each match. If their declared legally blind, then they should not be issued their firearm and can only assault during the game.

 Byte wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Decio wrote:
Space marines have no eyes? WTF where'd you here that?

It's true. Unless you model them with bare heads the model has no eyes. Fluff-wise it probably has eyes underneath it, but the 5th edition LOS rules said to draw it from the model's eyes, and a helmeted model doesn't have eyes. I don't know if this is still true in 6th, but it doesn't really matter. Nobody ever played it that way, so it was just one of those things people liked to talk about in forum arguments about how broken the rules are.

6th edition BRB page 8, top right column in bold. Still need eyes....

Yes, there are players that will try to play this way. There's a whole section dedicated to RAI/RAW here on Dakka. Some of the debates are really funny(i.e. FMC still getting "hard to hit" after crashing). If I come across TFG. I just don't play them, even in a tourney I don't care... It is a just a game and some what to stretch the rules more than I need to win.

My personal favorite is that the Doom of Malantai doesn't get a 3+ invulnerable save. Oh yes, it has that warp field special rule, that's true, but the actual text on that rule says, "Zoanthropes have a 3+ invulnerable save." It does not say "a unit with this power has a 3+ invulnerable save." Hence, the Doom, despite being the exact same model as a Zoanthrope and, by RAW, being considered to have the ability of warp field, it does not get the benefits because, technically speaking, it is not a Zoanthrope.

 Locclo wrote:

My personal favorite is that the Doom of Malantai doesn't get a 3+ invulnerable save. Oh yes, it has that warp field special rule, that's true, but the actual text on that rule says, "Zoanthropes have a 3+ invulnerable save." It does not say "a unit with this power has a 3+ invulnerable save." Hence, the Doom, despite being the exact same model as a Zoanthrope and, by RAW, being considered to have the ability of warp field, it does not get the benefits because, technically speaking, it is not a Zoanthrope.

Honestly, I'd hold no ill-will against an opponent who insisted on playing that way. The logic wouldn't be wrong, and as silly as it may be, that's the way GW wrote it.

 calgar 2.5 wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:
The only real time I've seen/heard/read 40k being taken "too far" is when this one dude cut himself and put some of his blood in the paint he was using to paint some Khorne models with, and some of his goo (lmfao at this word being censored to goo) in another paint to paint some Slaaneshi models with.

I'm pretty sure he/she/it posts on dakka

What the ?

My sides hurt from laughing and being disgusted at the same time.

Go on anime forum, people treat anime like serious business.

Go on Star Wars forum, people treat star wars like serious business

Go on football forum, people treat football like serious business

You see where I'l going with this.

 Locclo wrote:
My personal favorite is that the Doom of Malantai doesn't get a 3+ invulnerable save.

Or rather, it arguably didn't, up until GW FAQd it.

 Galdos wrote:

The are you guys even talking about?

That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard

that is nothing . with marines you could have at least argued that the model in deed has eyes under the helmet . But wait for it wait for it ..remember those crapy nids ? some of their models dont have and never had eyes to begin with .

Seriously, everyone take a big step back and look at the big picture: it's a game.

have you ever seen a game of sport where there is more then one player of opposing side ,to make it more easy for you , let us exclude profesional sport , because that is job/work more then a sport. We had fights break out and fueds between schools/streets/regions for years just because one team beat another. W40k is the same .

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
I have reduced my reading of these forums immensely due to the ridiculousness of the discussions. But it has left wondering, do people actually play the game this way? Vehicles can fire gun emplacements, space marines have no "actual" eyes, therefore draw no line of fire, Orks are too unpredictable to be competitive, etc. Has everyone forgotten that this is a game? No one's livelihood rests on 40k, if you are spending your money on this to the exclusion of necessities, that's your problem.

Seriously, everyone take a big step back and look at the big picture: it's a game.

No proper 40k player will ever do something / ask something similar to what you described. Everyone who does is a poor, pitiful human being you should avoid playing with at all cost. Those guys are the scum of the 40k sccene. Pick your players and enjoy the game.

Same goes for the forums. Most people in here are pretty nice. Sure, you got some peeeps lile Periunguine (or sth.) who stick to trolling / need to tell everyone they are TFG but hey, just ignore those..."people" and stick to the cool guys

 insaniak wrote:

 Locclo wrote:
My personal favorite is that the Doom of Malantai doesn't get a 3+ invulnerable save.

Or rather, it arguably didn't, up until GW FAQd it.

Isn't that the issue at hand and the OP's point?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Harriticus wrote:
Go on anime forum, people treat anime like serious business.

Go on Star Wars forum, people treat star wars like serious business

Go on football forum, people treat football like serious business

You see where I'l going with this.

I think you missed the intent of the post. It's the "high and right" RAW approach with the rules. Trust me, there's no common sense being utilized sometimes. It's either in the rules or it isn't. Rules as Written, no exception. The problem is... its true.

My favorite rule, by far, is "The Most Important Rule" found on page 4. That is the greatest bit of official trolling I think is present in the BRB. My friends and I typically play RAI instead of RAW whenever there is something bat-gak-crazy (like the aforementioned Marines not being able to draw LOS or vehicles firing gun emplacements (or if we are just currently to lazy to look up 5-6 rules to deal with a single instance).) I honestly believe GW wrote the book with RAI in mind believing their customers would have some decency. Unfortunately, with rules lawyers everywhere, we require weekly FAQ's to bring them back in line with the game everyone else is playing.

I've been able to largely avoid such players though I have played against TFG and his net-List/s a few times. He often forgot rules during his turn (to his benefit) and often demanded that I display my rules for his consideration as he had never faced Eldar before (he has the codex mind you). Best instance was when I was describing Ghosthelm to him (back in 5th). Took him a while (3-4 minutes) to understand that it wasn't an invul save but I could still take it against perils and only had to do so once.

Hanith wrote:
My favorite rule, by far, is "The Most Important Rule" found on page 4. That is the greatest bit of official trolling I think is present in the BRB. My friends and I typically play RAI instead of RAW whenever there is something bat-gak-crazy (like the aforementioned Marines not being able to draw LOS or vehicles firing gun emplacements (or if we are just currently to lazy to look up 5-6 rules to deal with a single instance).) I honestly believe GW wrote the book with RAI in mind believing their customers would have some decency. Unfortunately, with rules lawyers everywhere, we require weekly FAQ's to bring them back in line with the game everyone else is playing.

Unfortunately there is the flip side where some players want to oppose the clearly written rules by trying to bring up that some rules are obviously wrong. One such player argued that his orks shouldn't have to make difficult terrain tests or stop short if they rolled to low to enter the terrain because the rule said that the failed roll represented the troops being cautious and orks wouldn't be cautious. He was adamant that if he had to make difficult terrain roles then marines couldn't charge after firing pistols because the rapid fire rules stated that they couldn't charge after firing if they carried rapid fire weapons (instead of firing rapid fire weapons).

 yeri wrote:
I've acually mixed my blood with my paint, then again it was only so it didn't get all over my dorm room after I stabbed myself opening a box of samurai last week. Still need to explain to my professor why there's a bloody fingerprint on my syllabus. Worth it though, those samurai are nice.

Waste not I say.

 Ascalam wrote:
a player decided the other guy was cheating ... and try to garotte him with a tape measure.

If that image was on a t-shirt I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

 Mr Nobody wrote:

 yeri wrote:
I've acually mixed my blood with my paint, then again it was only so it didn't get all over my dorm room after I stabbed myself opening a box of samurai last week. Still need to explain to my professor why there's a bloody fingerprint on my syllabus. Worth it though, those samurai are nice.

Waste not I say.

Actually it was the only container on hand while my buddy ran and got a bandage. purely coincidence, but it makes a funny story.

 Necroagogo wrote:

 Ascalam wrote:
a player decided the other guy was cheating ... and try to garotte him with a tape measure.

If that image was on a t-shirt I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

Once I get all these picture of marines and stuff finished I'll hook you up with a pic. I'll give you permission to reproduce it on a tee.

'I'd buy that for a dollar!'

Net-cookie to whoever gets the reference first

That's a Robocop reference, but not really on topic.

Some people get worked up about anything, especially if it's important to them.

@Snoogums, that guys sounds like a jerk. I'm not saying he is or isn't one, just that he sounds like the type of person I'd never play.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
I have reduced my reading of these forums immensely due to the ridiculousness of the discussions. But it has left wondering, do people actually play the game this way? Vehicles can fire gun emplacements, space marines have no "actual" eyes, therefore draw no line of fire, Orks are too unpredictable to be competitive, etc. Has everyone forgotten that this is a game? No one's livelihood rests on 40k, if you are spending your money on this to the exclusion of necessities, that's your problem.

Seriously, everyone take a big step back and look at the big picture: it's a game.

A couple of pointers while looking at rules discussions:
- Just because somebody says "this rule says X" doesn't mean they play it that way.
- "you only say this because you constantly loose to Y"
- Something seems stupid to you. Maybe it doesn't for somebody else or playing it your way is exactly the same or more so.
- For every stupid rule you refuse to acknowledge there are ten other that you're fine with. Just because wording is not clear / many people misinterpret it, you have the right to play it differently?
(This is not exactly pointed at you, SoloFalcon1138.)

How much "emotional investment" is too much/few is a subjective thing (You shouldn't be emotional about stupid plastic toys / How can you not be emotional about your hobby?). Yes, there are overly zealous people in every aspect of life. Wh40k is no different.

Also, some stories here are hilarious / terrifying.

 Peregrine wrote:


And hey, at least you won't have to worry about dealing rules lawyers while you're serving your time in prison and then working a minimum wage job where you can't afford 40k because you have a violent criminal conviction on your record and no better employer will hire you.

Looks like somebody missed the point. Go home, Negative Nancy. Learn to tell when somebody isn't serious.


Off topic, is it just me, or has Dakka really gotten hostile lately?

Depends on who's posting.

We have some great guys, some OK guys and some utter pillocks.

Sometimes they can even be the same poster, depending on off-forum events or sleep deprivation/caffiene deficiency..

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:


And hey, at least you won't have to worry about dealing rules lawyers while you're serving your time in prison and then working a minimum wage job where you can't afford 40k because you have a violent criminal conviction on your record and no better employer will hire you.

Looks like somebody missed the point. Go home, Negative Nancy. Learn to tell when somebody isn't serious.


Off topic, is it just me, or has Dakka really gotten hostile lately?

Its just you!!



Nah, really the only things are ignite rage flames are GW and political rants. Otherwise, this is the place to be by far. A few keyboard bangers here for sure however, but very few really.

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:


And hey, at least you won't have to worry about dealing rules lawyers while you're serving your time in prison and then working a minimum wage job where you can't afford 40k because you have a violent criminal conviction on your record and no better employer will hire you.

Looks like somebody missed the point. Go home, Negative Nancy. Learn to tell when somebody isn't serious.


Off topic, is it just me, or has Dakka really gotten hostile lately?

NO, EVERYONE IS PERFECTLY HAPPY!

HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY!

The only real time I've seen/heard/read 40k being taken "too far" is when this one dude cut himself and put some of his blood in the paint he was using to paint some Khorne models with, and some of his goo (lmfao at this word being censored to goo) in another paint to paint some Slaaneshi models with.

I'm pretty sure he/she/it posts on dakka

I remember that thread, that was on dakka several years ago, I was one of the people who posted that yes, I have indeed mixed a pot of "Blood" Red for use on Khorne Berzerkers. Honestly though, the dude who put goo in his Emperor's Children was too far in my opinion....

As for the whole Rules Lawyering, I have indeed played against a person who insists on playing RAW, though somewhat hypocritically as he seems to mix and match which RAW ruling he chooses....

Anyone remember Gwars thread on RAW ridiculousness for 5th edition?

 Ratbarf wrote:
Anyone remember Gwars thread on RAW ridiculousness for 5th edition?

I remember that it wasn't Gwar's thread...

Hmm, is said thread still on YMDC?

So that is what has been different about the forums since the year hiatus I took... a distinctive lack of male body odor. I wonder where gwar went, anyway?

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:


And hey, at least you won't have to worry about dealing rules lawyers while you're serving your time in prison and then working a minimum wage job where you can't afford 40k because you have a violent criminal conviction on your record and no better employer will hire you.

Looks like somebody missed the point. Go home, Negative Nancy. Learn to tell when somebody isn't serious.


Off topic, is it just me, or has Dakka really gotten hostile lately?

Why so serious?

But unfortunately although many people argue rules over the internet to stupid degrees many will not play directly rules as written due to how stupid it is written. Very few people unfortunatly do take this game way to seriously. I've never seen it myself but I have heard stories.

while I do agree with this , there is still the other side . I cant remember people leting DA/BT players use codex sm/sw cylcons or storm shields pre FAQ and that was done years in to 5th ed . Or to be more up to time , let chaos sm player use marine DPs as flyers just like the chaos one , before the newer FAQ.

Oh my gosh.
40k is supposed to be a rule set you actualy play! :

And there is me thinking its just a series of marketing pamphlets to inspire people to buy GWplc product.
Lots of pretty pictures and kool stories about the fictional setting , that GW plc happens to have alot of associated products for...

If a rule set has the most important rule as...'the rules then , are not that important...'
It sort of begs the question , why should I bother with them.

A rule set by definition is instructions to play a game.Therfore the rules ARE important to attain the purpose of the rules sets function.

Most GOOD rule sets aim for clarity brevity and wit.

40k rules dont.
Why should anyone take the rules for 40k seriously, when no one at GW plc does?

 Locclo wrote:

 Byte wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Decio wrote:
Space marines have no eyes? WTF where'd you here that?

It's true. Unless you model them with bare heads the model has no eyes. Fluff-wise it probably has eyes underneath it, but the 5th edition LOS rules said to draw it from the model's eyes, and a helmeted model doesn't have eyes. I don't know if this is still true in 6th, but it doesn't really matter. Nobody ever played it that way, so it was just one of those things people liked to talk about in forum arguments about how broken the rules are.

6th edition BRB page 8, top right column in bold. Still need eyes....

Yes, there are players that will try to play this way. There's a whole section dedicated to RAI/RAW here on Dakka. Some of the debates are really funny(i.e. FMC still getting "hard to hit" after crashing). If I come across TFG. I just don't play them, even in a tourney I don't care... It is a just a game and some what to stretch the rules more than I need to win.

My personal favorite is that the Doom of Malantai doesn't get a 3+ invulnerable save. Oh yes, it has that warp field special rule, that's true, but the actual text on that rule says, "Zoanthropes have a 3+ invulnerable save." It does not say "a unit with this power has a 3+ invulnerable save." Hence, the Doom, despite being the exact same model as a Zoanthrope and, by RAW, being considered to have the ability of warp field, it does not get the benefits because, technically speaking, it is not a Zoanthrope.

I have to chime in here on this one, as mentioned the "Most important rule" - All models have eyes. Under their helmets, or through some strange fluff-justified capability. Such arguments are sad.