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I don't believe I did verify your point, all of the policies say anything outside the game range's models must be approved by the TO. This is no different than the official PP conversion policy. Yes, your testament of Menoth model must be primarily that model, but at the same time, Games Workshop's own events have the same freaking policy:

Taken from Ard Boyz 2011 Tournament Packet

Any conversions must begin as Citadel models and contain a majority of Citadel components. Non-­‐Citadel models may not be used in the event.

Bolded text is my emphasis

So both game companies have similar if not the same policy when it comes to conversions and model rules. Your space marine must start out as a space marine and contain a majority of citadel components (I will grant you this will include 40k, WHFB, and LotR).

 ShumaGorath wrote:

silent25 wrote:

That's sort of the problem with having a game that functions at a competitive level and doesn't have a shattered meta with four popular sub builds within three armies out of fifteen. 40k is a great creative palate and engine for narratives, but it's a gak game. If you're going to complain about a lack of creativity in tournament formatting I'll ask you why a quarter of all entrants were grey knights, and 50% were GKs, IG, and SWs in 40k tournies at the end of fifth. That seems like some pretty desolate "creativity", especially considering most of those armies were virtually identical.

You are forgetting Necrons in that mix. And I have seen some awesome conversions for necron armies. A local player has a great War of the Worlds themed one that would never be allowed under PP rules. If tournament playability is all you are basing your measurements on, then why bother with the figures at all. Numbered discs serve the same purpose and would have the same impact on the table.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alfndrate wrote:
I don't believe I did verify your point, all of the policies say anything outside the game range's models must be approved by the TO. This is no different than the official PP conversion policy. Yes, your testament of Menoth model must be primarily that model, but at the same time, Games Workshop's own events have the same freaking policy:

Taken from Ard Boyz 2011 Tournament Packet

Any conversions must begin as Citadel models and contain a majority of Citadel components. Non-­‐Citadel models may not be used in the event.

Bolded text is my emphasis

So both game companies have similar if not the same policy when it comes to conversions and model rules. Your space marine must start out as a space marine and contain a majority of citadel components (I will grant you this will include 40k, WHFB, and LotR).

That is a GW sponsored event that has been abandoned. Ard Boyz was canceled and is a defunct tournament series. And thank you for pointing out the difference again between PP and GW rules packs. GW requires a conversion begin as Citadel models and contain a majority of Citadel components in their fig. PP requires a majority of the actual unit in the conversion. I can create an Imperial Guard unit using WHFB empire flagellant parts for the body and head and add a lasgun. It is a fully legal fig under GW rules and a common conversion that has popped up at tournaments and on GW's own webpage. Not legal under PP rules because the majority of the fig is the flagellant.

You are forgetting Necrons in that mix. And I have seen some awesome conversions for necron armies. A local player has a great War of the Worlds themed one that would never be allowed under PP rules.

of course tournament playability is all I'm talking about. It's what this conversation concerning conversions and creativity is about. Do keep up please. As for necrons, they didn't dent the top threes 50% appearance rate in major tournaments until sixth.

If tournament playability is all you are basing your measurements on, then why bother with the figures at all. Numbered discs serve the same purpose and would have the same impact on the table.

If you're not talking about tournaments why are you posting? Why are you here? It's what I was talking about, it's what the people I was quoting were talking about. It's what the conversation is currently about.

There has been no significant proof that the constraints stifle creativity in the PP world at all. There have been a plethora of paint schemes and modeling that are just as creative as a GW equivalent. They themselves showcased conversions in their magazine for a time. The ability to differentiate between models as pointed out before is key in tournaments. Most warjacks share the same chassis and like a dreadnaught you want to know what weapons it actually has especially since that can change the entire stat line and abilities it has. Many models are similar in weaponry but different in looks or different in weaponry but similar is looks. For instance, Legion has 2 sets of archers and two sets of swordsmen. Similar weaponry and they're all elves, but key features of the models set them apart from one another. It's really not all that different from your expectations of a GW model your opponent has. You don't want to charge a dreadnaught to find out it was an ironclad or furioso with 2 CCWs. You don't want to waste shots on ogryn to only remember they were trying out grey knight allies and they're pallies even in a friendly game.

 ShumaGorath wrote:

You are forgetting Necrons in that mix. And I have seen some awesome conversions for necron armies. A local player has a great War of the Worlds themed one that would never be allowed under PP rules.

of course tournament playability is all I'm talking about. It's what this conversation concerning conversions and creativity is about. Do keep up please. As for necrons, they didn't dent the top threes 50% appearance rate in major tournaments until sixth.

If tournament playability is all you are basing your measurements on, then why bother with the figures at all. Numbered discs serve the same purpose and would have the same impact on the table.

If you're not talking about tournaments why are you posting? Why are you here? It's what I was talking about, it's what the people I was quoting were talking about. It's what the conversation is currently about.

This thread started off as a cost discussion. What are you doing here if not arguing that? My point was non-GW models are allowed at most non-GW run tournaments and that helps drive down the cost of playing GW games. And despite all the posts about "must be manufacturer models". Armies made up of Mantic units showed up at several southern California tournaments. I see the Mantic zombies in Vampire Count armies more often than the GW ones.

Just because the rule isn't enforced doesn't mean it still doesn't exist. Just like I said earlier, in both games, TOs are allowed to accept or deny armies in both games based on models used and conversions, etc...

This thread started off as a cost discussion.

Absolutely irrelevant. You commented in a running discussion, not on the OPs post or on something from page 3.

What are you doing here if not arguing that?

Conversing with people. Don't quote me and then talk about the conversation on page one. That's not how time works. It's annoying.

My point was non-GW models are allowed at most non-GW run tournaments and that helps drive down the cost of playing GW games.

No, it doesn't. Mantic is the only competitor with similar models that are cheaper. Every other boutique seller runs above GW prices. Not only are you off conversation, you're wrong and you're equivocating.

And despite all the posts about "must be manufacturer models". Armies made up of Mantic units showed up at several southern California tournaments. I see the Mantic zombies in Vampire Count armies more often than the GW ones.

Cool? The hell does that have to do with anything? You want to run a non PP tournament, go ahead. You know what I can't do? Do that in a GW tourney. The fact that the company you are fanning doesn't run events because it's lazy and has abandoned competitive play and well written rules entirely isn't a good thing.

 Surtur wrote:
There has been no significant proof that the constraints stifle creativity in the PP world at all. There have been a plethora of paint schemes and modeling that are just as creative as a GW equivalent. They themselves showcased conversions in their magazine for a time. The ability to differentiate between models as pointed out before is key in tournaments. Most warjacks share the same chassis and like a dreadnaught you want to know what weapons it actually has especially since that can change the entire stat line and abilities it has. Many models are similar in weaponry but different in looks or different in weaponry but similar is looks. For instance, Legion has 2 sets of archers and two sets of swordsmen. Similar weaponry and they're all elves, but key features of the models set them apart from one another. It's really not all that different from your expectations of a GW model your opponent has. You don't want to charge a dreadnaught to find out it was an ironclad or furioso with 2 CCWs. You don't want to waste shots on ogryn to only remember they were trying out grey knight allies and they're pallies even in a friendly game.

The extent of modeling I have seen in the No Quarter magazine is a slightly different pose. Yes there have been some nice paint jobs, but there is no modeling outside the box. Epic Scorsha is always Epic Scorsha. I can't even use the epic version over the normal version because they are considered different models. I can't create a Cryx themed army with a resurrected Haley and Cryx'ified Cygnar jacks. It leaves everything vanilla. Different shades, but still vanilla.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ShumaGorath wrote:

This thread started off as a cost discussion.

Absolutely irrelevant. You commented in a running discussion, not on the OPs post or on something from page 3.

What are you doing here if not arguing that?

Conversing with people. Don't quote me and then talk about the conversation on page one. That's not how time works. It's annoying.

My point was non-GW models are allowed at most non-GW run tournaments and that helps drive down the cost of playing GW games.

No, it doesn't. Mantic is the only competitor with similar models that are cheaper. Every other boutique seller runs above GW prices. Not only are you off conversation, you're wrong and you're equivocating.

And despite all the posts about "must be manufacturer models". Armies made up of Mantic units showed up at several southern California tournaments. I see the Mantic zombies in Vampire Count armies more often than the GW ones.

Cool? The hell does that have to do with anything? You want to run a non PP tournament, go ahead. You know what I can't do? Do that in a GW tourney. The fact that the company you are fanning doesn't run events because it's lazy and has abandoned competitive play and well written rules entirely isn't a good thing.

We were still discussing costs/model count back on page 8 of this thread. There was only one post on page 10 when I replied this morning. This isn't a come late 20 pages later post. You're the one that is saying this is only a tournament discussion.

And what do you mean Mantic is the only one that is cheaper. There are individual models in the PP range that are cheaper then GW. Not overall, but there are individual characters that are far cheaper than GW proper. Same goes for Wyrd, Avatars of War, and Reaper. But you can use those fig in a 40k or WHFB tournament. Yes, the organizers have the final say, but that is also to prevent things like lego space marines.

As someone who just bought a 28 point Hordes army and also the proud owner of a 500 point necron force, 1800 CSM force and a 2000 point Easterling force I'll chip in. I can only really talk about the models at this point.

The models from both companies look outstanding. My Druids look just as good, if not better, than my warriors in my other armies. Privateer Press' metal models are easier to assemble than GW's in my eyes as well. No finecast models either, which is good. Many models are in metal which I actually prefer. I like weight in my models. That is one reason why I prefer my metal Daemon Prince (the once whose arm falls off every month) to my plastic one - it just feels better. Finally the way they box their models is very nice.

GW has a slight edge because no matter what a Feral Warpwolf built from the Warpwolf box will always look extremely similar to another Feral Warpwolf also made from the Warpwolf box. No two models in a 40k army need to look the same. I have one model that's chucking a grenade, another that's looking down a sight on his bolter and another praising the Chaos gods. Also, they're easy to convert.

Overall maybe GW has a slight edge on the models front. Not because they look better but because one can do so much more with them.

We were still discussing costs/model count back on page 8 of this thread. There was only one post on page 10 when I replied this morning. This isn't a come late 20 pages later post. You're the one that is saying this is only a tournament discussion.

Excuse me, I'm sorry. I was talking to someone about tournaments. That poster was talking about tournaments. The poster he was quoting was talking about tournaments. But excuse me, you weren't keeping up and wanted to talk to someone back on page 8 and I forgot I'm some sort of magic mirror that sends your words back in time.

That's my fault I'm very sorry.

And what do you mean Mantic is the only one that is cheaper. There are individual models in the PP range that are cheaper then GW. Not overall, but there are individual characters that are far cheaper than GW proper. Same goes for Wyrd, Avatars of War, and Reaper. But you can use those fig in a 40k or WHFB tournament. Yes, the organizers have the final say, but that is also to prevent things like lego space marines.

Talking to you is a waste of time and I'm done with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
As someone who just bought a 28 point Hordes army and also the proud owner of a 500 point necron force, 1800 CSM force and a 2000 point Easterling force I'll chip in. I can only really talk about the models at this point.

The models from both companies look outstanding. My Druids look just as good, if not better, than my warriors in my other armies. Privateer Press' metal models are easier to assemble than GW's in my eyes as well. No finecast models either, which is good. Many models are in metal which I actually prefer. I like weight in my models. That is one reason why I prefer my metal Daemon Prince (the once whose arm falls off every month) to my plastic one - it just feels better. Finally the way they box their models is very nice.

GW has a slight edge because no matter what a Feral Warpwolf built from the Warpwolf box will always look extremely similar to another Feral Warpwolf also made from the Warpwolf box. No two models in a 40k army need to look the same. I have one model that's chucking a grenade, another that's looking down a sight on his bolter and another praising the Chaos gods. Also, they're easy to convert.

Overall maybe GW has a slight edge on the models front. Not because they look better but because one can do so much more with them.

There are benefits to monopose models, they tend to allow form much more dynamic poses and tend to reduce balljoint syndrome, where every poseable model tends to have strange doll-like joints, especially on highly muscular or organic models. It's definitely true that the number of poses and the customization of PP models in pack is lower generally than GW offerings (for infantry specifically, walkers tend to be pretty similar in both factions).


This is totally a monopose model, it'd be incredibly difficult to convert, but on the plus side it's not this:


Hive tyrants have practically infinite combinations of parts, but they all look the same and have the same boring, hunched, and shouty pose. The singular pose isn't the problem so much as the fact that the pose itself is boring and actionless/emotionless.

 Breotan wrote:

 ShumaGorath wrote:
I'm not sure Matt Ward was/is competent enough to be aware of the effects of point value on gameplay when writing the 6th edition rulebook. I'm also not sure he can go through a day without swallowing his own tongue, though, so expecting him to understand resource restrictions might be a bit much. I'm not confident any GW designer has been aware of things like divergent metas, optimal usage scenarios, the restrictiveness of freedom, or simple "balance" ever. PP knowingly designs it's games for a 35-50 point skew, though they are now engaging in policies and putting out products in an attempt to expand that number (presumably to sell more stuff).

You're missing the point with GW. It isn't about making a balanced "wonderful" game. If that's all that anyone cared about, we'd all still be playing BattleTech. No, GW's strategy is and always has been about selling miniatures to an already saturated market. This is why each rules edition has made new stuff better and old stuff obsolete. As has been previously stated, in 3rd/4th you needed to buy more infantry. In 5th you needed to buy the new vehicles coming out. In 6th, you need to buy fliers and terrain. The object of the game (from a design standpoint) has always been to service the sales of the models.

I'll try an article that said just that. It was really interesting - it stated that it had always been the company's goal, even when the Fighting Fantasy guys owned it.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

 ShumaGorath wrote:
I'm not sure Matt Ward was/is competent enough to be aware of the effects of point value on gameplay when writing the 6th edition rulebook. I'm also not sure he can go through a day without swallowing his own tongue, though, so expecting him to understand resource restrictions might be a bit much. I'm not confident any GW designer has been aware of things like divergent metas, optimal usage scenarios, the restrictiveness of freedom, or simple "balance" ever. PP knowingly designs it's games for a 35-50 point skew, though they are now engaging in policies and putting out products in an attempt to expand that number (presumably to sell more stuff).

You're missing the point with GW. It isn't about making a balanced "wonderful" game. If that's all that anyone cared about, we'd all still be playing BattleTech. No, GW's strategy is and always has been about selling miniatures to an already saturated market. This is why each rules edition has made new stuff better and old stuff obsolete. As has been previously stated, in 3rd/4th you needed to buy more infantry. In 5th you needed to buy the new vehicles coming out. In 6th, you need to buy fliers and terrain. The object of the game (from a design standpoint) has always been to service the sales of the models.

I'll try an article that said just that. It was really interesting - it stated that it had always been the company's goal, even when the Fighting Fantasy guys owned it.

The companies goal is naturally to stay in business, they sell models as their primary source of revenue and thus they create systems that support those sales. The idea that selling models and selling a good and functional game to go alongside them are in opposition is silly. Bad balance is what killed virtually every single clix and card game that ever took off and put magic into a coma for half a decade. Pushing short term sales at the loss of much greater long term sales via a dwindling userbase is suicide and theres' virtually no evidence to suggest that GWs rules are written with that in mind.

 ShumaGorath wrote:

We were still discussing costs/model count back on page 8 of this thread. There was only one post on page 10 when I replied this morning. This isn't a come late 20 pages later post. You're the one that is saying this is only a tournament discussion.

Excuse me, I'm sorry. I was talking to someone about tournaments. That poster was talking about tournaments. The poster he was quoting was talking about tournaments. But excuse me, you weren't keeping up and wanted to talk to someone back on page 8 and I forgot I'm some sort of magic mirror that sends your words back in time.

That's my fault I'm very sorry.

And what do you mean Mantic is the only one that is cheaper. There are individual models in the PP range that are cheaper then GW. Not overall, but there are individual characters that are far cheaper than GW proper. Same goes for Wyrd, Avatars of War, and Reaper. But you can use those fig in a 40k or WHFB tournament. Yes, the organizers have the final say, but that is also to prevent things like lego space marines.

Talking to you is a waste of time and I'm done with it.

Well excuse me for replying to someone (ShumaGorath ) who replied to one of my posts. And sorry for replying to posts on page 9 and 10 replying to my posts. I guess that next time I see a ShumaGorath responding to my posts, it's a figment of my imagination and that ShumaGorath is actually elsewhere discussing deep and physiological issues.

silent25 wrote:

 ShumaGorath wrote:

We were still discussing costs/model count back on page 8 of this thread. There was only one post on page 10 when I replied this morning. This isn't a come late 20 pages later post. You're the one that is saying this is only a tournament discussion.

Excuse me, I'm sorry. I was talking to someone about tournaments. That poster was talking about tournaments. The poster he was quoting was talking about tournaments. But excuse me, you weren't keeping up and wanted to talk to someone back on page 8 and I forgot I'm some sort of magic mirror that sends your words back in time.

That's my fault I'm very sorry.

And what do you mean Mantic is the only one that is cheaper. There are individual models in the PP range that are cheaper then GW. Not overall, but there are individual characters that are far cheaper than GW proper. Same goes for Wyrd, Avatars of War, and Reaper. But you can use those fig in a 40k or WHFB tournament. Yes, the organizers have the final say, but that is also to prevent things like lego space marines.

Talking to you is a waste of time and I'm done with it.

Well excuse me for replying to someone (ShumaGorath ) who replied to one of my posts.

You were talking about tournaments and the impact of tournament formats and rules, don't whine to me when I get confused and annoyed when you suddenly change the subject to something unrelated to the discussion being had in order to make a cheap and unsupported point.

silent25 wrote:

 Surtur wrote:
There has been no significant proof that the constraints stifle creativity in the PP world at all. There have been a plethora of paint schemes and modeling that are just as creative as a GW equivalent. They themselves showcased conversions in their magazine for a time. The ability to differentiate between models as pointed out before is key in tournaments. Most warjacks share the same chassis and like a dreadnaught you want to know what weapons it actually has especially since that can change the entire stat line and abilities it has. Many models are similar in weaponry but different in looks or different in weaponry but similar is looks. For instance, Legion has 2 sets of archers and two sets of swordsmen. Similar weaponry and they're all elves, but key features of the models set them apart from one another. It's really not all that different from your expectations of a GW model your opponent has. You don't want to charge a dreadnaught to find out it was an ironclad or furioso with 2 CCWs. You don't want to waste shots on ogryn to only remember they were trying out grey knight allies and they're pallies even in a friendly game.

The extent of modeling I have seen in the No Quarter magazine is a slightly different pose. Yes there have been some nice paint jobs, but there is no modeling outside the box. Epic Scorsha is always Epic Scorsha. I can't even use the epic version over the normal version because they are considered different models. I can't create a Cryx themed army with a resurrected Haley and Cryx'ified Cygnar jacks. It leaves everything vanilla. Different shades, but still vanilla.

I believe that this guy has used these models in tournaments, but your "I can't create a Cryx themed army with a resurrected Haley, etc..." Is kind of moot. I agree that in a tournament setting this guy would normally not be able to play in a tournament, like I said I believe he has (and again, it's up to the TO). But the link I'm about to provide shows a HEAVILY converted Cygnar army that uses Cygnar rules I believe, but uses Khador models... I'm almost positive that this is the thread I'm thinking of, but I can't tell because the images are work blocked D:

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?98-Stormhammer-the-Assault-on-Sul

But saying you can't covert your pp models is just an outright lie. I've seen plenty of PP conversions that make sense, are dynamic, and follow the conversion rule. I realize you're trying to grasp at the, "I can't use other steampunk models in my PP games, but you can't deny that if someone takes the time, they can create some really nice looking conversions. Which I think is more creative since the models themselves have to fit within a strict guideline, forcing you to actually plan your conversion out.

Are you both trolling each other or is it love?

Convertions on models... both companies have different takes on those, while GW is more about themed full armies PP is more about the painting of unique characters... both are valid and I'm glad they hare different...

I like to buy a chunky ton of metal and paint it as much as I like to convert a plastic army... Different flavours.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Are you both trolling each other or is it love?

Fill disclosure I thought silent was nkelsch who had been making ludicrous points earlier.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Are you both trolling each other or is it love?

Convertions on models... both companies have different takes on those, while GW is more about themed full armies PP is more about the painting of unique characters... both are valid and I'm glad they hare different...

I like to buy a chunky ton of metal and paint it as much as I like to convert a plastic army... Different flavours.

I am not trolling. The point has been made that I can use another company's models to play GW's game, and the point came out about the lack of conversions in the PP range... So I gave an example... If it is coming off as trolling, I'm sorry.

 Alfndrate wrote:

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?98-Stormhammer-the-Assault-on-Sul

But saying you can't covert your pp models is just an outright lie. I've seen plenty of PP conversions that make sense, are dynamic, and follow the conversion rule. I realize you're trying to grasp at the, "I can't use other steampunk models in my PP games, but you can't deny that if someone takes the time, they can create some really nice looking conversions. Which I think is more creative since the models themselves have to fit within a strict guideline, forcing you to actually plan your conversion out.

Point taken. My view is likely colored by the local PP players who take a far harder line on conversions and tie tournament rules to free/league play. Sadly you can't see works like this outside a local play area as PP does not encourage such work at tournaments. Tournament play does color local play and I said, because PP is more restrictive, it serves as a disincentive to do conversion work and use alternative figs. Because GW tournaments are almost all independent, people are able to bring in other manufactures models to spice up their armies and also save money. This mentality affects local play and acceptability. Because there are alternative and cheaper manufacturers out there for GW game, GW games can be cheaper to get into.

That was the point of my original post which some people (not you) seem to completely ignore.

Conversion work and alternative armies are rare in PP games because the tournament rules discourage it.
Conversion work and alternative armies are encouraged and almost mandatory (heavy conversion work at least) to win most major GW tournaments. So you see that mentality affect local play as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ShumaGorath wrote:

Fill disclosure I thought silent was nkelsch who had been making ludicrous points earlier.

I LOOK NOTHING LIKE HIM! I don't know what he looks like, but I'm pretty sure I don't.

I hope.....

silent25 wrote:

 Surtur wrote:
There has been no significant proof that the constraints stifle creativity in the PP world at all. There have been a plethora of paint schemes and modeling that are just as creative as a GW equivalent. They themselves showcased conversions in their magazine for a time. The ability to differentiate between models as pointed out before is key in tournaments. Most warjacks share the same chassis and like a dreadnaught you want to know what weapons it actually has especially since that can change the entire stat line and abilities it has. Many models are similar in weaponry but different in looks or different in weaponry but similar is looks. For instance, Legion has 2 sets of archers and two sets of swordsmen. Similar weaponry and they're all elves, but key features of the models set them apart from one another. It's really not all that different from your expectations of a GW model your opponent has. You don't want to charge a dreadnaught to find out it was an ironclad or furioso with 2 CCWs. You don't want to waste shots on ogryn to only remember they were trying out grey knight allies and they're pallies even in a friendly game.

The extent of modeling I have seen in the No Quarter magazine is a slightly different pose. Yes there have been some nice paint jobs, but there is no modeling outside the box. Epic Scorsha is always Epic Scorsha. I can't even use the epic version over the normal version because they are considered different models. I can't create a Cryx themed army with a resurrected Haley and Cryx'ified Cygnar jacks. It leaves everything vanilla. Different shades, but still vanilla.

Issue 10 pg 95: Flameguard converted into Cultist of Cyriss
Issue 11 pg 95: Santa Troll, complete with sled and troll to pull it.
Issue 14 pg 90: Praetorian Dakar conversion with instructions
Issue 16 pg 93: Titan Gladiator with wrestling belt and Defender conversion
Issue 17 pg 93: Khador traitors as cugnar pg 95: Poodle warpwolf and decorated juggernaut
Issue 18 pg 93: Ghost thingy and cryx'd man 'o' war

And I'm now tired of looking but I've proven my point.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Are you both trolling each other or is it love?

Convertions on models... both companies have different takes on those, while GW is more about themed full armies PP is more about the painting of unique characters... both are valid and I'm glad they hare different...

I like to buy a chunky ton of metal and paint it as much as I like to convert a plastic army... Different flavours.

I am not trolling. The point has been made that I can use another company's models to play GW's game, and the point came out about the lack of conversions in the PP range... So I gave an example... If it is coming off as trolling, I'm sorry.

Not you mate, more Shuma and Silent

silent25 wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ShumaGorath wrote:

Fill disclosure I thought silent was nkelsch who had been making ludicrous points earlier.

I LOOK NOTHING LIKE HIM! I don't know what he looks like, but I'm pretty sure I don't.

I hope.....

You both have no signature or avatar!

 NAVARRO wrote:


Not you mate, more Shuma and Silent

Do you mind? Can we have some privacy here?

Annnnnd I think this thread has run it's course.

Warmachine Conversions:

Sloan
My Conversion:

Stock Model:


Cyclone Warjack

This model is technically illegal, as it uses almost none of the Cyclone kit's parts (it is a "smaller-sized" Cyclone with the plastic parts on an old metal body), but is OBVIOUSLY a Cyclone. It has never failed to pass Tournament Organizer's approval for use.

Vlad - Dark Prince of Umbrey

Saddly, picture is not very good... he's the second infantry on the left in the foreground. (Can zoom in the gallery). The only parts remaining from the original model are the head, the shoulders, forearms and feet, making it also an illegal conversion. Body is a GW Chaos Warrior's. The rest is greenstuff. However, he passes the PP policy of no weapon swaps, and he too, has never failed to pass a Tournament Organizer's approval either, as he's OBVIOUSLY Vlad.

Stock Model:


I really take exception to the view that conversion = gear swaps, or counts-as. IMHO, reposing, or resculpting is an equal form of converting and PP's policy (while stringent) alows lots of leeway, especially since eligibility of using converted models is ALMOST ALWAYS at Tournament Organizer's discretion.

Even if I spent 1/10 of the money on PP that I spent on 40k, that money would be wasted because I have yet to see a single PP model that appeals to me aestheticaly. Simple.

Plumbumbarum wrote:
Even if I spent 1/10 of the money on PP that I spent on 40k, that money would be wasted because I have yet to see a single PP model that appeals to me aestheticaly. Simple.

Then you simply hate every model that isn't a Space Marine.

 keezus wrote:
Warmachine Conversions:

Sloan
My Conversion:

Stock Model:


Cyclone Warjack

This model is technically illegal, as it uses almost none of the Cyclone kit's parts (it is a "smaller-sized" Cyclone with the plastic parts on an old metal body), but is OBVIOUSLY a Cyclone. It has never failed to pass Tournament Organizer's approval for use.

Vlad - Dark Prince of Umbrey

Saddly, picture is not very good... he's the second infantry on the left in the foreground. (Can zoom in the gallery). The only parts remaining from the original model are the head, the shoulders, forearms and feet, making it also an illegal conversion. Body is a GW Chaos Warrior's. The rest is greenstuff. However, he passes the PP policy of no weapon swaps, and he too, has never failed to pass a Tournament Organizer's approval either, as he's OBVIOUSLY Vlad.

Stock Model:


I really take exception to the view that conversion = gear swaps, or counts-as. IMHO, reposing, or resculpting is an equal form of converting and PP's policy (while stringent) alows lots of leeway, especially since eligibility of using converted models is ALMOST ALWAYS at Tournament Organizer's discretion.

To add more ammo as it were:

My Vlad3


Original


100% tournament legal as it's simply a repose that uses 100% of Vlad3's parts.

My pVlad (far left)


Original is in your post.

Probably not legal, as he uses eVlad's legs, arms and body. Only the shoulder pads and weapons are from pVlad. Cloak isn't even PP. :p

Oh, nice conversions BTW.

@Grimtuff: Thanks for the compliment. Glad to see that pVlad's goofy pose is universally reviled.

-edit 1- Actually, the squad of winterguard in the above picture is also mostly converted to remove the hunchback pose. I'll try and take better pictures.

-edit 2 - Now that I look more carefully and jog my memory - the Khador group shot also contains the following conversions:

Beast 009 - the only all-red Warjack in the picture was converted - (Axe Swap from Karchev, Head Swap from Marauder) - passes the 50% Rule, the no-weapon-type-change rule.
Spriggan - mostly obscured, to the right of the all-red Warjack - built using Devestator Legs to change its stance
MOW shock trooper commander has a torso swap from the MOW Demo Corps Captain and combines the MOW Demo Corps Captain arm with the Shocktrooper Captain Arm. Maintains all rank markings.

There is also a Decimator in that picture - totally obscured that is built on the metal Juggernaut chassis.

-edit 3 - Hot damn... forgot that I did an axe swap on the Destroyer on the left. Sawed his metal fist off and put the pastic one on there to make it a MK1 Destroyer REFIT.

Considering that almost 1/3 of the models in that photo are converted... I find assertions that Warmahordes is conversion-unfriendly frustrating. A more accurate assertion would be that Warmahordes is HOME BREW or BUILD-YOUR-OWN unfriendly.

 sourclams wrote:

Plumbumbarum wrote:
Even if I spent 1/10 of the money on PP that I spent on 40k, that money would be wasted because I have yet to see a single PP model that appeals to me aestheticaly. Simple.

Then you simply hate every model that isn't a Space Marine.

???

I don't like Space Marines models too much. I own Tyranids and CSM Nurgle, also Orks as a joke and pure fun, some loyalist Black Templars too but it's hard not to have them when every starter is full of them. Anyway PP models just have those Americanised aesthetics I hate so much. I also hate GW but for other reasons. They have the taste for sf I give them that even though they rip it all of and twist to fit their universe.

Not sure what you wanted to achieve with that comment, I made mine just after googling the entire Legion of Everblight to see if there's anything to use for my Tyranids but no luck, even that flying snake that seemed to look ok as a miniature pic turned out to have that Warcraftish/ Starcraftish look I can't stand. In fact I didn't want to cut on anyone taste but if you throw Ultramarine Kid bs at me then let me tell you that those Warmachine models look sensless and ridiculous to me just like the happy coloured artwork

I'm not criticising WM rules btw, there is a good chance that they are better than GWs own but there is no contest in models department, WM is a cheap copy imo and lack the grimdark treatment that makes 40k worthwhile. All subjecively ofc, this is just what I think.

Anyway PP models just have those Americanised aesthetics I hate so much.

What does that even mean?