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 Battle Brother Lucifer wrote:
CSS: Regimental Standard, LC, Astropath 115

10x stormies - 2x flamers 175
5x stormies - 2x plasmas 115 (are plasma's worth it, or back to melta?)
5x stormies - 2x meltas 105

PCS - 4x flamers 50
3x infantry squad:
- autocannon, meltagun 70
- autocannon, meltagun 70
- autocannon, meltagun 70
2x SWS:
- Demo, flamer, flamer 65
- Demo, flamer, flamer 65

Vet Squad
Harker, 3x plasma, demolitions 200

Leman Russ Extecutioner - PC sponons 230
Leman Russ Extecutioner - PC sponons 230
Griffon- 75

Vendetta 130
Vendetta 130

ADL 100
- quad gun

total 1995 I believe, hows this list look?

Add ya 3 vendettas. Cant go wrong with them, plus you can put your storm troops in them and outflank. Take the last 100 points and put towards what ever you like. List seems solid though maybe give your CCS a chimera w/ heavy flamer over heavy bolter.

This list will have some trouble Vs Flyers, TeQ, and any Gunline capable of handing the 2 melta ST squads (most of them)

Leman Russ Exterminator w/ lascannon is probably one of the better units without skyfire for threatening flyers, but it's still not actually good at it, just less bad than most. An ADL with Quad or Vendetta, or both would be a strong addition, not just for Flyers, but in general.

The Meltas are going to sting but not really hurt TeQ squads. The LCs are BS3 and you only have 2 of them.

Most of your firepower is S7. A good opposing gunline is going to have an answer for your 2 squads of STs w/ meltas and still be able to dish out way more dakka than you.

For 2000, I would...
Drop one of the Infantry Platoons
Add a Harker Vet squad with Plasma and Demolitions
Add an ADL with Quad gun
Switch the CCS from an AC to a LC
Add 2 Vendettas
Add 2 more IS with flamers and Krak grenades to hop in the Vendettas

Ok, list based on your advice

CCS: Regimental Standard, LC, Astropath 115

10x stormies - 2x flamers 175
10x stormies - 2x meltas 185
10x stormies - 2x meltas 185

PCS - 4x flamers 50
5x infantry squad:
- autocannon, meltagun 70
- autocannon, meltagun 70
- autocannon, meltagun 70
- flamer, krak 65
- flamer, krak 65

Vet Squad
Harker, 3x plasma, demolitions 200

Leman Russ Exterminator - lascannon 165
Leman Russ Exterminator - lascannon 165

Vendetta 130
Vendetta 130

ADL 100
- quad gun

total 1940, any other suggestions for what to do with 60 points?

Adl + quad is 100 not 50

I never checked the book, I was going off another list I saw, and he had the coms


Fix'd

Why Harker exactly? He is alright, but I would not say that great, unless you are outlfanking him, but even then.

I would look at executioners over exterminators. You have very little plasma, tons of AC's. Thnk about how you will deal with TEQ

Harker's squad gives the wave of Storm Troopers some extra options. (3 plasma, HBolter, Melta-Bombs, Demo charge) By all means, I would usually Outflank with all 4 units, but don't be afraid to Infiltrate or DS as called for by the type of deployment, your opponent's list, or your opponent's deployment choices.

As far as not knocking the choice of Executioners, I try to make suggestions that make a list more effective without turning it into to much of a cookie-cutter affair.

The list would probably benefit from more AP2, but it has a lot more now than the 1500 version. It's a diminishing returns thing.

Maybe it wont do as well as another list might against TeQ, but on the other hand maybe it will do better than that other list vs Mech Transport Spam and MCs.

I'm going to have to agree that I've never been that impressed with harkers unit If you already have the vendettas why not save some points and just grab 2 special weapon squads with a demo charge and drop them out of those.

aleis wrote:
I'm going to have to agree that I've never been that impressed with harkers unit If you already have the vendettas why not save some points and just grab 2 special weapon squads with a demo charge and drop them out of those.

with 3 demo charges, or just 1?

well can give them three but thats a but load of points sitting i just 6 guardsmen,
There isn't going to be an exact parrellel between the two units so I can't exactly what would match the vet squad but you find something that is equally effective in a different stratagy.

I think I would just do 1 demo and 2 flamers that way it stays cheap. Also once you drop them they are pretty much a right off, And your opponent might not have anthing worth 3 demo charges on the table, and you sure aren't going to wan't to hold onto them as 6 guardsmen die to easily.

This is just a personal preference,

I'd use melta-vets with demolitions in the Vendetta instead of SWSs. Although that might be a redundancy with all the storm troopers.

I also don't like the two exterminators, especially with a lascannon, it's too much mixing of weaponry. You have plenty of auto-cannon fire in your list, I'd even put the CCS back to having an auto-cannon since they'll be using the Quad-cannon I assume. The exterminator can't take orders either, which is another weakness compared to infantry with similar weapons.

You really need either AP2 or blasts. Obviously I'll say "Executioner!!!!11!!" since it gives you both, but if you don't want to go down that road there are other units you can buy. A vanilla Russ wouldn't be a bad choice, a Valkyrie with MRP would also be a decent choice. Griffons are awesome, probably the best artillery in my opinion. Vets are a pretty standard way to bring AP2 in the form of plasma or melta. Especially good if you throw them out of a Vendetta.

If I go to executioners, would sponsons be worth it or a no-go?

Also, I was thinking of loading the flamer and krak squads in the vendettas, would stormies/vets be a better idea for it?
I was feeling stormies would be a good deep strike unit to arrive and lay down some melta/flamers/plasma

also, what about Marbo? Ive heard he's the bee's knees

Yes sponsons, PG to be exact. They are expensive, yes, but worth it so much. You can move 6" and unload 5 plasma blasts and the HB. That is a ton of wounds. Just make sure you understand the "gets hot" rule and how it works with vehicles, I, personally, had read it wrong the first time and was turned off from them, but now I am a huge fan.

Yes, thats what SS's are for. They are great for showing up where needed and laying down massive wounds. For melta squads, I would stick with the standard 5 man squads. If you are going Plasma/flamer and have the room for it I would opt for a larger squad. It is simply better on paper and in practice.

That being said I do not do this. I do not like these massive squads, I would rather support the 5 man squads with vendettas/valkyries and massive amounts of heavy, downplaying the need for my opponent to take out the SS's. Just something to think about.

Marbo IS the bee's knees. All 6 of them. He is amazing. Consider him the most accurate piece of artillery guard have, but he is a one main shot weapon. He can walk through termie squads like butter, paladins fear him, vehicles usually have some form of infantry support near by because of him. Give him a shot, you will never regret spending the 65 points, even the one time he fails to do anything, the amount of attention he gets is worth it every time.

 UMGuy wrote:
you will never regret spending the 65 points, even the one time he fails to do anything, the amount of attention he gets is worth it every time.

While I agree with everything you've said UMGuy, I strongly disagree with this. I've regretted Marbo on multiple occasions. When he's missed and blown up himself, or when he was assaulted over a 11" range to be torn to shreds, but basically giving my opponent a free 11" move.

Although these are two unlucky occasions I have regretted him, he performs admirably on many occasions.

alright, I will admit a handful of times marbo may end up doing very little, and he would not be worth his points then, but from my experience this is usually not the case. Its just like storm troopers, occasionally they will not earn their points back or be worthwhile.

Im at home for a long weekend, so I dont have the dex on me, would anyone mind putting up the list with the suggestions so far so I can compare?

 Battle Brother Lucifer wrote:
Im at home for a long weekend, so I dont have the dex on me, would anyone mind putting up the list with the suggestions so far so I can compare?

Sounds like a great way for me to procrastinate. I'll give it a go (:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
: Regimental Standard, LC, Astropath 115

10x stormies - 2x flamers 175
5x stormies - 2x meltas 105
5x stormies - 2x meltas 105

PCS - 4x flamers 50
3x infantry squad:
- autocannon, meltagun 70
- autocannon, meltagun 70
- autocannon, meltagun 70
2x SWS:
- Demo, flamer, flamer 65
- Demo, flamer, flamer 65

Vet Squad
Harker, 3x plasma, demolitions 200

Leman Russ Extecutioner - PC sponons 230
Leman Russ Extecutioner - PC sponons 230

Vendetta 130
Vendetta 130

ADL 100
- quad gun

This totals up to: 1910pts

90pts is a horrible chunk to spend. I'd say grab a griffon to take on hordes then with the last 15 points you could throw a plasma gun on your CCS or maybe drop a flamer from the PCS and use the 20 points to camo netting one of the two executioners. I don't recommend putting them in a squad for both to have the netting since 1 executioner will tear through a MEQ/TEQ squad alone.

Seeing the double melta-delivery that is stormies is heavily making me reconsider them. I love the models, and the idea of them just dropping in and dispatching a tank sounds cool. With two it's less likely to be destroyed by my poor luck with storm troopers too. I might have to post an army list up >.>

Harker vets and 2 sws with demos! Id love to see some break out drago wing against that

aleis wrote:
Harker vets and 2 sws with demos! Id love to see some break out drago wing against that

lol this really looks like a fun list deep striking SWS out of vendettas is awesome. I've never used Harker before, really want to give him a go. It's just that the heavy bolter really doesn't synergise well with plasma. I suppose the ML and HB on a chimera doesn't either...

Couldnt I fit Marbo in, and an extra plasma/melta somewhere or something for 90?

3 demo charges, lots of flamer templates, some AC, and decent plasma

Yeah you could use Marbo instead of the Griffon I was recommending. Then move the left over points around.

I was just thinking that wouldn't a single griffon take a ton of anti-tank fire early on because its by itself?

Your elite section is full, so that's a no go on marbo, sadly.

The griffon is not a bad idea, you could post it behind terrain and have it indirect fire the whole time, any opponent opting to shoot at it instead of the executioners is crazy.

90 points is an ugly chunk left over, I would go ccs with regimental standard and 3 melta. Adds the option for a ccs to advance with infantry squads and one to sit back, both providing orders.

And the camo netting on a tank squadron is per tank not one price for the whole unit.

Looks like a relatively solid list. I play IG as well; I really enjoy how much firepower they can put on the table for a relatively low points cost. A couple of things I would note:

1. You are putting a lot of points into Stormtroopers with three squads of them. They are very hit-or-miss; they either wreck your opponent's most useful unit or they die without doing anything. I personally wouldn't field more than one or two, but if you enjoy that kind of high-risk playstyle, more power to you. If you want to field Marbo, you'll have to drop one of the ST squads for him.

2. Putting both meltas and AC's on your infantry squads might not be the best idea. Meltas are meant for close-range vehicle destruction, but AC are for popping transports, light vehicles and heavy infantry at range. Your IS's have to stay still to fire the AC, which means they won't be getting in range to use their meltas often. Decide which of these roles you want your IS to fill, and adjust appropriately. If it were me, I'd leave the AC, and swap out the meltas for flamers to protect against assaults (D3 instahits on overwatch is incredibly useful).

Otherwise it looks pretty good.

 DoctorBrain wrote:
Looks like a relatively solid list. I play IG as well; I really enjoy how much firepower they can put on the table for a relatively low points cost. A couple of things I would note:

1. You are putting a lot of points into Stormtroopers with three squads of them. They are very hit-or-miss; they either wreck your opponent's most useful unit or they die without doing anything. I personally wouldn't field more than one or two, but if you enjoy that kind of high-risk playstyle, more power to you. If you want to field Marbo, you'll have to drop one of the ST squads for him.

2. Putting both meltas and AC's on your infantry squads might not be the best idea. Meltas are meant for close-range vehicle destruction, but AC are for popping transports, light vehicles and heavy infantry at range. Your IS's have to stay still to fire the AC, which means they won't be getting in range to use their meltas often. Decide which of these roles you want your IS to fill, and adjust appropriately. If it were me, I'd leave the AC, and swap out the meltas for flamers to protect against assaults (D3 instahits on overwatch is incredibly useful).

Otherwise it looks pretty good.

If I removed a stormie squad, and made an AC stay back and shoot platoon, and a get up close with meltas platoon, do you think it would work better?
Or, do you mean leave the AC in the squads, then put flamers to protect them?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, here's mine own additions (just checked the dex, as well as one switch to stormies because I like the models I was going to use)

CSS: Regimental Standard, LC, Astropath 115

10x stormies - 2x flamers 175
5x stormies - 2x plasmas 115 (should this squad be 10 guys?)
5x stormies - 2x meltas 105

PCS - 4x flamers 50
3x infantry squad:
- autocannon, flamer 65
- autocannon, flamer 65
- autocannon, flamer 65
2x SWS:
- Demo, 2x flamer 65
- Demo, 2x flamer 65

Vet Squad
Harker, 3x plasma, demolitions 200

Leman Russ Extecutioner - PC sponons 230
Leman Russ Extecutioner - PC sponons 230

Vendetta 130
Vendetta 130

ADL 100
- quad gun

total 1905, so 95 points to play with. I could fit a griffon or another css or something

is having plasma stormies a decent idea? My army is going to be renegades, so Im using FW renegades as stormies, as well as other 'higher up' positions, and I want to use the plasma gunner from the FW renegades command squad in the stormie squad. I guess I could convert him to have a melta, but the model looks so awesome

 DoctorBrain wrote:
Looks like a relatively solid list. I play IG as well; I really enjoy how much firepower they can put on the table for a relatively low points cost. A couple of things I would note:

1. You are putting a lot of points into Stormtroopers with three squads of them. They are very hit-or-miss; they either wreck your opponent's most useful unit or they die without doing anything. I personally wouldn't field more than one or two, but if you enjoy that kind of high-risk playstyle, more power to you. If you want to field Marbo, you'll have to drop one of the ST squads for him.

2. Putting both meltas and AC's on your infantry squads might not be the best idea. Meltas are meant for close-range vehicle destruction, but AC are for popping transports, light vehicles and heavy infantry at range. Your IS's have to stay still to fire the AC, which means they won't be getting in range to use their meltas often. Decide which of these roles you want your IS to fill, and adjust appropriately. If it were me, I'd leave the AC, and swap out the meltas for flamers to protect against assaults (D3 instahits on overwatch is incredibly useful).

Otherwise it looks pretty good.

I heavily disagree with both these points.

Bing 1 suicide squad of storm troopers to pop a tank, or bring 3 for a whole new "battle within a battle" - a great way to deny home objectives and cause your opponent to panic over two sides of assault. Going 1/2 assed will result in wasted points. All or nothing.

Meltas are for protection against MCs and terminators. For 10 points you get to crack open a terminator or wound an MC as they walk towards you. They're insurance against these targets, and they're very cheap. Flamers are great too, but depending on who you're playing meltas can just be flat-out better - especially against 2+ armor. They can even take BID on MCs that get close making them fantastic for 10pts. Don't underestimate insurance.

So, Meltas or flamers for the infantry squads

Also, I just converted up a renegade 'Harker'

Tell me what you think





All the tubes are supposed to be wires, pumping in stimms (my reason for his strength and being able to fire heavy bolter on the move)

Harker looks pretty good, I am a fan of the GW model, but yours looks pretty good and cult-ist.

As for the melta/flamer debate, flamers are good when you are not sure what the squad will be doing. Or the squad is a low priority and you want to keep it there. It is not for infantry squads.

I would opt for melta. You do not have a lot of it, not even in the form of melta bombs. I would go for melta because of how capable it is as a special weapon. With melta, you have an nfantry squad that can provide a threat at range as well as close range. Your opponents will have to choose to eather stay at range and hopefully hit the AC's. Or come closer and take the gamble with the melta guns.

I am a huge fan of Melta AC infantry squads, and they have never let me down. They are cheap enough to not be a big deal when they die, and yet capable enough to do some real damage when called upon. To a list like this (I run one similar) they compliment it nicely.

CSS: Regimental Standard, LC, Astropath 115

10x stormies - 2x flamers 175
5x stormies - 2x plasmas 115 (are plasma's worth it, or back to melta?)
5x stormies - 2x meltas 105

PCS - 4x flamers 50
3x infantry squad:
- autocannon, meltagun 70
- autocannon, meltagun 70
- autocannon, meltagun 70
2x SWS:
- Demo, flamer, flamer 65
- Demo, flamer, flamer 65

Vet Squad
Harker, 3x plasma, demolitions 200

Leman Russ Extecutioner - PC sponons 230
Leman Russ Extecutioner - PC sponons 230
Griffon- 75

Vendetta 130
Vendetta 130

ADL 100
- quad gun

total 1995 I believe, hows this list look?