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Baleflamers are awesome, especially as you start to see people rely on devastator squads with flakk...

I like the Hades too though. It's more versatile, st 8 and pinning, and the daemonforge ability is great. If you spam the Hades and maybe some blastmasters too, good chance that those blobs/deathstar units will just get pinned and be able to do nothing.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
One flyer in one codex isn't going to invalidate foot lists.

Yes, yes it will. Helldrakes are game breaking and will redefine the meta.

That's not really how the meta works though. If people stopped taking certain things in their lists just because there's a new hard counter there'd be nothing left. People already stopped taking tonnes of vehicles and lightened it out to deal with infantry for 6th, if they don't take mech and stop taking infantry what's left? All the Heldrake will do is make people start taking AA seriously, as they should have done from the start.

 Meade wrote:
Baleflamers are awesome, especially as you start to see people rely on devastator squads with flakk...

Why would people rely on a unit that doesn't exist?

When your army's only choice for effective AA is allies or an Aegis Defense Line, the only person that wins is GW for me having to buy more models... so that's lame.

Second, it's a torrent flamer and can be placed in any fashion 12" away. If you're foot slogging, even in a 2" formation, they can toast a good portion of the squad. If it's a Dev unit, like my Long Fangs that I twin-link to deal with flyers, along with a Rifleman, then one Bale Flamer can pick up almost the entire squad.

I played against a list with 2 + Vendetta + AC Havocs + IG w/ AC + Oblits. The worst part was getting knocked out of vehicles, forced to deploy in small areas (or worse, blown out and cratered) and then the Helldrake picking up almost the entire unit. With that sort of 1 - 2 Punch, you better believe that's game changing.

TheKbob wrote:

I played against a list with 2 + Vendetta + AC Havocs + IG w/ AC + Oblits. The worst part was getting knocked out of vehicles, forced to deploy in small areas (or worse, blown out and cratered) and then the Helldrake picking up almost the entire unit. With that sort of 1 - 2 Punch, you better believe that's game changing.

Exactly. The only reason I can think of that people are fighting this fact is they haven't played against Helldrakes yet.

When you do, you will be livid.

Yeah they are awesome, but it doesn't mean everyone is going to start hiding in tanks again.

Ok, can't wait to try mine out now.

With a S6 flamer you have a chance to pop a tank with it if you get the right approch. as well.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Meade wrote:
Baleflamers are awesome, especially as you start to see people rely on devastator squads with flakk...

Why would people rely on a unit that doesn't exist?

Oh, so you think that space marines will not get flakk missiles then? It is just a chaos thing?

Foot MARINE lists care about the AP3 flamers, for ork or IG foot it is no more effective than an incinerator.

Not to mention they prb just bring Dakka jets or Vendettas to shoot it down...

True, Guard lists won't care about the AP3. But the Flamer is just as effective against T3 as it is against T4. Its killing on 2s in both cases.

I think all AP3 flamers are at least Str6.

 Jackster wrote:
Foot MARINE lists care about the AP3 flamers, for ork or IG foot it is no more effective than an incinerator.

Not to mention they prb just bring Dakka jets or Vendettas to shoot it down...

Hah, you forgot one thing. This is a S6,AP3 flamer delivered on your doorstep 12" away in any direction the turn it arrives. So it can and will snipe heavy weapons teams, command units, etc.

It's not only the weapon but the delivery. You can move one, crack a tank with your vector strike, and then position another to roast the contents since they are now all nice and bundled up.

A list of three of these things coupled with cheap AC wielding Havocs is going to be a nightmare for almost any army.

 Jackster wrote:

Not to mention they prb just bring Dakka jets or Vendettas to shoot it down...

Not real likely on Dakkajets.

 Meade wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Meade wrote:
Baleflamers are awesome, especially as you start to see people rely on devastator squads with flakk...

Why would people rely on a unit that doesn't exist?

Oh, so you think that space marines will not get flakk missiles then? It is just a chaos thing?

They probably will, but they don't right now, and they aren't due a new book for awhile. So it's not really part of the discussion.

They may get a 'soft' update in a White Dwarf booklet / new tablet release though.

Honestly, in some ways (if done correctly) it could mean a better game if they went digital...

With errata and FAQs being done digitally, any glaring power issues / wargear changes, etc able to be changed...

TheKbob wrote:
When your army's only choice for effective AA is allies or an Aegis Defense Line, the only person that wins is GW for me having to buy more models... so that's lame.

Second, it's a torrent flamer and can be placed in any fashion 12" away. If you're foot slogging, even in a 2" formation, they can toast a good portion of the squad. If it's a Dev unit, like my Long Fangs that I twin-link to deal with flyers, along with a Rifleman, then one Bale Flamer can pick up almost the entire squad.

I played against a list with 2 + Vendetta + AC Havocs + IG w/ AC + Oblits. The worst part was getting knocked out of vehicles, forced to deploy in small areas (or worse, blown out and cratered) and then the Helldrake picking up almost the entire unit. With that sort of 1 - 2 Punch, you better believe that's game changing.

As a wise compatriot of mine so recently said....

I'm only taking one of these to have an answer for Codex: Long Fangs.

 Ovion wrote:
They may get a 'soft' update in a White Dwarf booklet / new tablet release though.

Do you really think GW would only give their beloved Codex: Space Marines a White Dwarf update? Hell would sooner freeze over.

As a marine player the helldrake sounds like a highly mobile redeemer thats hard to kill

Already we are bending lists to deal w fliers, witness awesome dakka threads on Stormtalons, AGL and bastions, yet this beastie really rams home your either back to mech, which is expensive in points or meh if using rhinos, or building for anti flier.

As a cynic my real concern is everyone goes and reacts to this ruleset, buys fliers, terrain, havocs etc and then the cheap counters come on in a year or two.

Back to the thread yep S6 AP3 projected flamer on awesome looking model is the go. There will be lots of marine lists poorly tooled to handle it and it will make BBQ powerarmour crackling for you.

Did i mention it looks awesome?

 Boneblade wrote:

TheKbob wrote:
When your army's only choice for effective AA is allies or an Aegis Defense Line, the only person that wins is GW for me having to buy more models... so that's lame.

Second, it's a torrent flamer and can be placed in any fashion 12" away. If you're foot slogging, even in a 2" formation, they can toast a good portion of the squad. If it's a Dev unit, like my Long Fangs that I twin-link to deal with flyers, along with a Rifleman, then one Bale Flamer can pick up almost the entire squad.

I played against a list with 2 + Vendetta + AC Havocs + IG w/ AC + Oblits. The worst part was getting knocked out of vehicles, forced to deploy in small areas (or worse, blown out and cratered) and then the Helldrake picking up almost the entire unit. With that sort of 1 - 2 Punch, you better believe that's game changing.

As a wise compatriot of mine so recently said....

I'm only taking one of these to have an answer for Codex: Long Fangs.

Gonna be Codex Havocs/Heldrakes soon enough!

Plus, since the aegis doesn't fit my play style, I'm bringing a Skyshield. Burn through a 4+ invuln save.

Codex: Long Fangs? Your compatriot is an idiot

/trollface
/trollface
/trollface
/trollface
/trollface

Actually mech is a pretty bad counter for the helldrake. It just makes it easier for it to kill more if they are able to take out the transport, now you are much more bunched up than if you could spread out.

I was building my list and realized that I had little to no ability to take out transports so that I could flame the contents. Thinking about oblits and/or havocs to fill that gap.

Forgefiends should be good at that task too.
8 Str8 shots should really kill any transport you point it at.
Or most vehicles you point it at... and badly hurt any troops.

BA can still FNP it, thankfully.

Best counter for helldrake? Deathwing.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Ovion wrote:
They may get a 'soft' update in a White Dwarf booklet / new tablet release though.

Do you really think GW would only give their beloved Codex: Space Marines a White Dwarf update? Hell would sooner freeze over.

There are rumors that they will update space marines across the board to purchase Flakk's. When I say space marines i don't only mean codex: space marines. You think they would let their beloved codex be without flakk for long? When chaos gets them? I kind of doubt it.

Not to mention Dark Angels will surely get it... in the very least...

I am giving myself baleflamers on my helldrakes and just going to do my best to ignore fliers outside of a quadgun. I dont play any flying circus/crossoint armys so I am not too worried about it. I am just going to take ground troops to be my anti tank.

First you crack the shell then the nuts inside - transformers, 1988

We have quite a few flyers here. So I think I will be using quad guns, helldrakes and likely Flakk

 Meade wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 Ovion wrote:
They may get a 'soft' update in a White Dwarf booklet / new tablet release though.

Do you really think GW would only give their beloved Codex: Space Marines a White Dwarf update? Hell would sooner freeze over.

There are rumors that they will update space marines across the board to purchase Flakk's. When I say space marines i don't only mean codex: space marines. You think they would let their beloved codex be without flakk for long? When chaos gets them? I kind of doubt it.

Not to mention Dark Angels will surely get it... in the very least...

Yes actually as only one of the various Chapter codices is due for a re-release soon, and they certainly won't be replying on Flakk Devastators (and not just because Flakk Havocs have shown that Flakk is not something to rely on). You are trying to be funny and smart in your post, but all you are showing is a lack of knowledge of how GW runs things.

So simply put, still, no, everyone is not going to be relying on Flakk Devastators.

No one here works for GW so no one really knows, lets all be cordial to each other please.

Dropped a Maulerfiend and some psychic gear on an HQ to add a 2nd Helldrake with a Baleflamer.

They are stupid.

As in good.

I am staring at that Hades fiercely, but the Baleflamer is just too good. Sorry but even against terminators, the more saves I make someone make the better. Baleflamer seems best

I was also thinking about something else... Let's say you REALLY wanna reach out and touch those Long Fangs and you have your two drakes armed with a Hades and Baleflamer. It would suck to have only the Hades arrive when you really want the Torrent weapon.

So yeah, two. Also, the Vector Strike helps with Drop Pods in your deployment zone, leaving your troops to focus on killing the enemy instead of glancing useless transports.

As time goes on I am thinking the baleflamers are the way to go... thanks for the post

I played a game against one of these yesterday and was pretty impressed--by the cannon option.

Baleflamer seems redundant. Chaos also gets
-Doom Sirens
-Wind of Chaos
-Burning Brand of Skalathrax

Which can go on various flying, bike-mounted or steeded characters to get close when needed, although you don't need to be that close for the Burning Brand.

Or you can ally with daemons for flamers and their various other template powers.

The impressive thing about the flying hades autocannon for me is that it's both superfast-durable-mobile-antitank and anti-air, which are two things that chaos has trouble getting in other slots.

 Flavius Infernus wrote:
I played a game against one of these yesterday and was pretty impressed--by the cannon option.

Baleflamer seems redundant. Chaos also gets
-Doom Sirens
-Wind of Chaos
-Burning Brand of Skalathrax

Which can go on various flying, bike-mounted or steeded characters to get close when needed, although you don't need to be that close for the Burning Brand

Doomsirens only go on noise marines
Wind of chaos you need to roll for, and the most you can roll on the Tzeentch chart is twice
Burning brand is one per army and has to be on a commander

Helldrakes come from reserve leaving the opponent no chance to stop them swooping in and cooking a squad of preferably marines

I just don't see it