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I have a question, and I will cross post this to Warseer to see what they think also.

The entry says that 1 per 10 may take a blastmaster.

The CSM entry says that 10 or more can take a heavy.

The space marine says that the 5th marine can have a free flamer, if ten are taken, then the missle launcher is free.

I am a fluff player, but I hate rules lawyers.

The word "per" is bothering me.

Why can't I get my squads of 6, and use my blastmaster (yes, I want to avoid buying 4 more models per squad, being as that will now cost $30USD for 2 kits, and 30 for a box of noise marines).

The rule doesn't say the squad must be 10 or more, or even 10. The minimum squad size is 5.

Is there a precedent for this?

P.S. This codex sucks, hard.

P.S.S. Notice the terminator box set has an illegal terminator right on the box? He has a bolter/flamer, and power fist.

You can do anything you want as long as your opponent is in agreement. And yes the terminator entry needs fixing too.

Strictly by the book though... no you can't... not if you want to play in organized games (tournaments, etc). If you came by my place for beers and 40k I'd be more than happy for you to field 6 man squads with blastmasters as long as you let me use my terminators the way I built them years ago.

Is this a question or an argument?

 Mahtamori wrote:
Is this a question or an argument?

Yes.

BladeWalker makes an excellent point. Rules are rules and if you don't like strict rules then don't use strict rules. Just don't get upset if someone takes exception because you spring surprises you normally shouldn't.

 BladeWalker wrote:

 Mahtamori wrote:
Is this a question or an argument?

Yes.

Good point on this one, too.

The question is does "1 per 10" mean that you can have 1 for up to 10 models, or if you can have 1 for each full group of 10?

1 per ten is a little vague. In a strict reading I would say that it is 1 for every full ten.

yes, it is vague. Is it one for every full ten, or one for up to 10.

This is important.

I suspect, I will never play this army anyway, but I might if I don't have to add so many models.

This codex sucks, looks like it will be an 8 year draught for 40K for me.....

One per 10 models. it is really not that vague.

If 10 then 1. that is what 1 per 10 is. if you do not have at least 10 then it is impossible to have 1 per ten as you do not have 10.

1 per 10 ==1 for every 10. Not unclear at all

Yeah, I assume it's one for every full 10. If you interpret "per" the other way, you'd be able to cram 2 into a squad of 11.

2 blastmasters in a single squad!!!!!!!......thats a lot of WUB WUB!!!!

 A Kvlt Ghost wrote:
Yeah, I assume it's one for every full 10. If you interpret "per" the other way, you'd be able to cram 2 into a squad of 11.

And lets be honest, that really wouldn't be that overpowering. Your spending a minimum of 225 points to do that.

I'd really like it to actually be worded that way. If I had my way, I would have made it one blastmaster for every 6 guys. Just to help give some structure to the idea of sacred numbers.

It's pretty sad but if they threw Chaos players a bone with a sacred number rule we'd buy it if it was the crappiest codex ever made.

The word "per" has a very specific meaning, look it up. It is equivalent to the words "for every" and therefore there is absolutely no ambiguity here.

"1 per 10" is semantically identical to "1 for every 10". Which means that you must have a full 10 models before getting a blastmaster.

Devils advocate (plus i think it should be in a squad of 6)
you should on average roll one 6 per six rolls,
If you roll 5 dive you have a good chance of getting one 6.
In a space of 10 guys you could have up to 1 blast master.

Just a devils advocate theory from computer science background logic.

1 for every 10 is the literal meaning of 1 per 10. it is unambiguous in English

Yes 1 in 10. 1 per 10.
the 6th guys has a blast master and there isn't 2 of them within 10 guys even though there are only 6. It may be that you cannot have more then 1 blast master per 10 NMs.

If 1 apple is bad per 100 apples you can find 1 bad apple per 99 apples 99 out of 100 times.

Above all else, this needs an FAQ. I think we can all agree that there won't ever be a consensus without it.

However, I think that you can definitely take a Blastmaster in a 5 man squad.

A) Prior precedent. 5th codex it was totally legal. Clearly, rules in 5th don't apply to six, but it is a precedent. The points costs between 5th and 6th are pretty similar as well.

B) It doesn't violate any rules of english. If anything, English makes it more obscure.

"Take one pill per day" means you can take that one pill any time within that 24 hour period as long as you don't exceed the one, just as you can take one blastmaster for every 10 models. It doesn't matter which of the 10, as long as you don't exceed the 1 for every 10.

C) Everywhere else in the codex where they require you to have 10 models before you can buy an upgrade, they explicitly state that you have to have 10 models to buy the upgrade. Here, they specifically chose a different wording.

1 per 10 is simply for ever 10 dudes you may take 1.

1 goldfish per 10 tickets.

can I get a goldfish with 5?

MadmanMSU wrote:
Above all else, this needs an FAQ. I think we can all agree that there won't ever be a consensus without it.

No need, this is crystal clear. This isn't first codex to have "For every X models, you may purchase wargear Y". And that wording has always been interpreted to mean that you need the full X to purchase wargear Y.
Simply, if you don't have 10 models, you don't fulfill the criteria at all.

Do you also think that 6-man GK Purifier squad should be able to buy 4 psycannons? I mean, they also have "For every five models, two purifiers may...". That interpretation would make GK, especially MSU GK lot stronger.

Slave wrote:
P.S.S. Notice the terminator box set has an illegal terminator right on the box? He has a bolter/flamer, and power fist.

Don't think anyone's answered this bit yet, so from the FAQ:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2710181a_Chaos_Space_Marines_v1.0a.pdf
Page 97 – Chaos Terminators, Options, second bullet point Change to ‘Any Chaos Terminator may choose any of the following three options:’

Now if they'd only fix the chaos terminator champion's wargear....

"So hey, Abbadon, I was noticing that my buddy Joe over there, see that guy in the black terminator armor? Yeah, he only had to pay 7 points for his lightning claws. Why did I have to pay 22 points for the same gear?" Says Jim, the Terminator Champion.

"Well," replies Abbadon. "You get to make a single attack more than Joe so that must be why the folks down in the munitions department feel you need to pay more than tripple what Joe does."

"Uh sir, I don't want to question your genious or anything, but Joe & I both fight just as well now. Your new training program has me spending more time in 'Your Mother & why she is a Whore' training & less time in the sparring cages"

"Huh, well you get the privelage of going mano-a-mano with our foes' greatest champions! Think of the Honour! Oh, look here comes Mephiston - You've got this right Jim? Thanks"

As jim goes - sure, since 6th ed Mephiston is only AP3, i can definitely take him...

Well the terminator champ can do more damage against pf wielding characters and be mostly sure they're dead in a challange. After that so long as you don't get spawnhood it's been a good round of cc.

Actually the terminator champ's new training program involved him beating Papa Smurf into a pulp until he agreed to show the champ how to dual-wield powerfists.

Played a game the other day using a 20 man noisemarine squad with 2 blast masters.

Those things are just....deadly! Sonic blasters really aren't required, just take a bunch of noisemarines with ccw and bolters. Move them forward to snake yourself out to an objective while firing those blast masters. Two hits on a marine squad and they're absolutely toast.

It's a nasty weapon. Allowing multiples in small squads would be quite devastating.

i can relate, this is exactly what i wanted to do, run 6 man units with a aspiring champion, 1 blastmaster, 2 sonic blasters, an icon of excess, and a close combat armed noise marine. I still am attracted to the idea ov running 6 man blast master squads and just paying the points difference for the additional 4 guys but not bothering to field them.

Thread is being locked due to thread necromancy.