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Looking at my models, I'm wondering if the new CSM codex has changed how to effectively equip the standard CSM squads. I was going to put in missile launchers with flakk missiles to fill the AA gap in my army... until I realized that only Havoks get them

How are you going to equip your basic CSM squads now?

Edited for derpy-English.

With ADLs? 2xPlasma most likly. 1 plasma and the ADL? or 1 auto cannon and the ADL? idk...

Basic 10 with 2 meltas?

I'm actually unsure too. Previously, my csm were quite versitile with the CC weapon and meltas, and would often rhino rush before receiving a charge. In addition, I kept them cheap to hold objectives.

I'm kinda tempted to take cultists for objective holding now. But in that case what are basic csm for? Anti horde? Anti troop? In addition, annoyingly you need 10 to get to special weapons, unlike plague marines. As a result, I think I might drop basic csm altogether.

If you do decide to take basic csm, I'd make sure they have a strong purpose, and build them strictly for that role (or all roles if you want expensive)

In fact, the role of the basic CSM units is not so clear in the new edition.
With two meltas, they are anti-tank. But we'll see less tanks in the new ed.
With two plasma guns, they are anti-tank, anti-heavy-infantry, and anti-MC. As Termies got a boost and MCs are always hard to deal with asap, plasma gun could be the way to go. However, there are other ways to get plasma weapons to bear, like Oblits or Termies.

 lunarman wrote:
In addition, annoyingly you need 10 to get to special weapons, unlike plague marines.

You need 10 CSM to get a single special weapon? That sucks - all my CSM squads are in squads of Nurgle's 7 with a meltagun. Might have to play them as plague marines in that case...

Sorry 10 to get 2. But who'd want a squad with one?
Plagues can get two special weaps at 5

5 with a MoN and a Lascannon. Not a bad way to hold an objective.

TheMicah25 wrote:
5 with a MoN and a Lascannon. Not a bad way to hold an objective.

Compare this to a mob of Cultists...

I agree with the notion that vanilla CSM's seem a bit... useless now. You can easily make a cheap blob of cultists that'll take forever to kill for sitting on objectives. CSM heavy weapon options are laughable now, compared to Havocks and other options.

I don't really see any specific role nilla CSM play.

 wuestenfux wrote:

TheMicah25 wrote:
5 with a MoN and a Lascannon. Not a bad way to hold an objective.

Compare this to a mob of Cultists...

This squad is still good at shooting and combat. you pay more points for a unit that can do something other than be a bullet sponge. at T5 this unit is so much better than a C:SM squad.

I don't really see any specific role nilla CSM play.

TheMicah25 wrote:
5 with a MoN and a Lascannon. Not a bad way to hold an objective.

need 10 to get a heavy weapon


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
Looking at my models, I'm wondering if the new CSM codex has changed how to effectively equip the standard CSM squads. I was going to put in missile launchers with flakk missiles to fill the AA gap in my army... until I realized that only Havoks get them

How are you going to equip your basic CSM squads now?

Edited for derpy-English.

only havocs can take flakk missiles, and for their cost you are not good. They cant take on any of the scary fliers which are AV12 and they cost that of a lascannon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TheMicah25 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

TheMicah25 wrote:
5 with a MoN and a Lascannon. Not a bad way to hold an objective.

Compare this to a mob of Cultists...

This squad is still good at shooting and combat. you pay more points for a unit that can do something other than be a bullet sponge. at T5 this unit is so much better than a C:SM squad.

5 regular marines with T5. With CCW and Pistol or Bolter. Still 5 guys with 1-2 attacks a piece. T5, but no FNP, no defensive grenades. I dont know any combat unit that is going to fear them. Even a tactical squad will do alright against them.

In fact the lack of LD and fearless compared to ATSKNF and combat tactics makes them a faint shadow compared to tac marines.

Sadly PM are still the default unit. Gets the most bang for its cost. Actually whats hilarious is now they beat sonic marines and KB at their roles. A plague knife means they re-roll wound attempts on fellow marines which is better then furious charge. T5 and plasma means they knock down NM while shrugging off sonic fire.

I think a fun and competitive list for me will now be Typhus, PM, zombies, nurgle spawn or bikes and nurgle oblits. Not a single AV in the army and everything is insanely durable and points efficient.

I tend to give them 10+ guys, whatever special weapon I feel like, and 2 special weapons depending on the rest of the list. Larger squads get the fearless icon, and were possible I pay for the CCW, and with leftover points, veteran just cause.

Probably 10 guys with a Meltagun, Heavy Bolter and Close Combat Weapons. Reasonably cheap, and can hold mid field objectives just fine, which is what I got 'em for.

Thanks everybody for their input. After much deliberation, I decided to go this route: I went with 2 plasmaguns for the first 10-man squad, and 2 meltaguns + CCWs for the second squad. If I had more plasmaguns, I'd have equipped them both that way, as I feel that plasmaguns are the most versatile weapon available to the unit. Able to take on both MEQs/TEQs and light vehicles, they should be able to put the hurt on the majority of units they will face off against. Cultists are better for horde-control, and cheaper. Without rhinos (which I have yet to purchase) plasma also edges out the meltaguns in use due to a longer threat-range. All that leaves is the heavy tank busting, which will be handled by my Hellbrutes, Vindicators, and Havocs.

So I'll use them for what they are supposed to be used for- to kill loyalist dogs that answer to the false emperor!

Basic CSM? Been replaced by the cult.

Cult troops, cultists, they just win out. Especially plague-O's.


Ahhhh delicious plague-O's. Still as foul and rotten as before

Ive loaded my 10 man csm with 2 meltas and ccw, MoK, these guys seem like they could totally ruin a tac or vet squad in cc, unless im missing something, they have rage, counter attack, 4 attacks on charge with rage. My main opponent is Ultramarines so well see.

I am thinking of a unit of 10 with 2 plasma, 8 bolters, and 4-5 close combat weapons on the plasma first and then other guys in the back. any additional guys would just be bullet catchers.
I might be pursuaded to take MoN on these guys.

Another squad will be more combat oriented 10 guys with all CCW and Pistol, 2 melta guns, an icon of vengence and the champion with a power weapon.

Other than that I will be fielding cultists with CCW and Pistol and an allied guard detachment of cultists with lasguns

Gotta take Marks if you want to take an Icon.

After crunching a lot of numbers, I think I'll just use Abaddon and use my CSM as Chosen. They get an extra attack, higher leadership, and CCWs included for a slight points increase. As others have said, Cult troops do it better anyway.

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
Gotta take Marks if you want to take an Icon.

After crunching a lot of numbers, I think I'll just use Abaddon and use my CSM as Chosen. They get an extra attack, higher leadership, and CCWs included for a slight points increase. As others have said, Cult troops do it better anyway.

Don't need a mark for Icon of Vengeance.

Chosen seem pretty good atm, but shame you get black crusader as your warlord trait.

I seem to be sticking my foot in my mouth a lot recently

I saw Icon of Vengeance and read Icon of Wrath for some reason.

Anyway, even though Abaddon locks in Black Crusader as a warlord trait, at least I know what it's going to be so I can plan accordingly... and most of my opponents these days are SM of some flavor anyway. Off the top of my head, I know 2 BA players, 2 GK players, 3-4 vanilla SM players, 1 BT player, and 1 DA player... just at my local club. For my meta, it actually helps me a lot to get that trait.

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
I seem to be sticking my foot in my mouth a lot recently

we all are, new codex. The quicker we find out that the foot is in the mouth, the quicker we learn, the less likely we are to rip our friends off via misreading/misinterpreting rules/codex

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:

Anyway, even though Abaddon locks in Black Crusader as a warlord trait, at least I know what it's going to be so I can plan accordingly... and most of my opponents these days are SM of some flavor anyway. Off the top of my head, I know 2 BA players, 2 GK players, 3-4 vanilla SM players, 1 BT player, and 1 DA player... just at my local club. For my meta, it actually helps me a lot to get that trait.

I play mainly IG :(

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
I seem to be sticking my foot in my mouth a lot recently

I saw Icon of Vengeance and read Icon of Wrath for some reason.

Anyway, even though Abaddon locks in Black Crusader as a warlord trait, at least I know what it's going to be so I can plan accordingly... and most of my opponents these days are SM of some flavor anyway. Off the top of my head, I know 2 BA players, 2 GK players, 3-4 vanilla SM players, 1 BT player, and 1 DA player... just at my local club. For my meta, it actually helps me a lot to get that trait.

I would take black crusade over 2, 4, 5, or 6. To me it is the second best trait.

Don't you need to have 20 models in order for two of them to have plasma/melta guns? I don't think you can have 10 with 2 of them having special weapons.

edit- Nevermind. I was thinking of Noise Marines.

I'm going to be playtesting this loadout:

10 Chaos Space Marines
CCW on 9 guys since Champion already has one
Veterans of the Long War
2 Plasma Guns
Mark of Khorne
Champion with Power Sword and Gift of Mutation and Melta Bombs
Rhino

283 points

Costs a crap ton yes, but you're paying to become the killiest troop in the game with true swiss army knife potential. The synergy between Mark of Khorne and Veterans of the Long War is ridiculously good. Re-roll my hits against Loyalists whenever I charge or get charged? Sure! This loadout allows you to do a lot of things, can't wait to start testing it.

Fabulous bile might end up working for CSM. I'm still trying to figure out if there is a reasonable way to use them. So far, I don't think GW understands how good combat tactics and KNF are. I know it's not really fair to compare anything to grey hunters and wolfguard, but that same jerk wrote both codexes.

Anyway, back to our fabulous friend. He may not be the best character in a challenge... well besides having 6/7 attacks that inflict instant death and fnp... but he does come with fearless, and grants fearless to another squad in addition to +1 str. Now if you are capable of keeping your CSM squad reasonably cheap per attack and find some way to get them into the fray, you've got yourself a really efficiently costed and hearty scoring unit. Especially if you are cost sharing this bonus over 20 guys.

I am inclined, at the moment, to think that chosen and cult troops may still be the better option. I suppose if you like your MSU you can get a pretty cheap 5 csm + plasma + combi plasma + combi plasma rhino. There's a thought.

Also
10 CSM with mark of corn, Long war vets, ultra grit, 2 plasma guns and a rhino with a combi weapon come out to 265

7 plague marines with 2 plasma guns, a fist for the champion and a rhino with a combi weapon comes out to 268

What do you think you'll get more mileage out of?

It really sucks Chaos Marines Leadership fell. A cultist champ is 8 tying a CSM... bs.

Yeah, and cultists are essentially homeless people.

People above have said plagues are still the best. Even for their increased points?

I do think they're strong, but I also like noise marines and can't decide which are better!

Noise marines are good anti horde and quite cheap compared to plague marines.