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But also prefer to be much more static. From what I see, Noise marines are better gunline style, Plague-o's are better at seizing midfield

 AresX8 wrote:


The synergy between Mark of Khorne and Veterans of the Long War is ridiculously good. Re-roll my hits against Loyalists whenever I charge or get charged? Sure!

Not whenever. You will sometimes fail the Counter Attack LD test.

 Lucre wrote:
Yeah, and cultists are essentially homeless people.

where do you run if you got no home?

 lunarman wrote:
People above have said plagues are still the best. Even for their increased points?

I do think they're strong, but I also like noise marines and can't decide which are better!

Noise marines are good anti horde and quite cheap compared to plague marines.

Plague marines are the same cost really. They went up one point but gained a plague knife which is ridiculously awesome. I don't understand how he equates a close combat weapon to a plague knife, they each are one point and one has poison 4+ which means they wreck other marines because they essentially have shred. I don't even understand how people think taking more then 10 plague zombies is broken. Lets do some number crunching eh?

100 bolters are shot at plague marines and then plague zombies in open ground. against the PM 100*4/81= 4.94 kills....Against zombies 100*8/27=29.63 kills....
Its laughable when you look at the numbers, PM still shot for shot, blow for blow take more wounds efficiently then any other unit in the codex, can STILL have 2 SW at only 5 models and are now even more efficient in cc.

Now if you start adding cover to the scenario, obviously the plague marines numbers stay the same (which is still better) while the other numbers get slightly better, like intervening models of soft cover saves 10 more zombies but at that point cultists are better as they can go to ground and with the MoN have a higher toughness which means 100 bolters shooting at MoN cultists in in open ground is 100*2/6=33.33 dead cultists which is worse then zombies but after going to ground with simple cover becomes 100*2/12=16.67 compared to the 20 dead zombies. So without having to purchase typhus and retaining their weapons they are actually better then zombis at holding back field objectivs and you avoid the current debate on options.

 6^ wrote:
It really sucks Chaos Marines Leadership fell. A cultist champ is 8 tying a CSM... bs.

Well you would have to be totally insane or very brave allying with a warband of 10,000 year old psychos who are as likely to kill you for fun as they would an enemy.

As for CSM loadouts, I tried 1 Plasma in a 5 man squad in a Rhino, and I tried 2 Plasma in a 10 man squad in a Rhino. I think in 1500 points a ten man squad of these guys kinda limits you from taking the more fun stuff the army now has.

Personally I'll be putting my CSM away and just using Plague Marines. They are better than CSM in many respects, the most important one for me being able to take 2 Plasma Guns in a 5 man squad.

I've posted this in another thread, but CSM with MoK are superior to their Berserker brethren.

For 18 points, you get a marine with bolter/bp/ccw, Long War veteran, with 4 attacks on the charge with a re-roll for the distance, or 3 attacks on the counter assault after double tapping overwatch. Very flexible, and 2 points cheaper per model than Berserkers (5 points cheaper if you take the situational axes).

Alternatively, you could take a big close combat mob (15+ models) of CSM with the mark of Slaanesh and an icon of excess. You could go Noise Marines instead, since you're only paying 1 extra point per model to make them fearless, but you are also taking up an Elite slot (unless you have a Slaanesh-marked Lord). Not sold on noise weapons.

I'm not sure why people are so enamored with Cultists. Without Icons they seem like trash to me, and I would much rather just bring IG allies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BlaxicanX wrote:
Don't you need to have 20 models in order for two of them to have plasma/melta guns? I don't think you can have 10 with 2 of them having special weapons.

edit- Nevermind. I was thinking of Noise Marines.

You don't need 20 noise marines to take two blastmasters. The way I read the text, it seems you can take 2 blastmasters with 11 marines (or 12, if you want to be proper about it).

I am thinking of just doing 4 sets of 5 Plague marines with 2 plasmas each (in 2k points). Leave room for all the fun stuff in the army.... I don't know if that will be enough troops to hold objectives but if it is, it will be fun. Plague zombies may be good but like Red corsair said, they actually don't hold objectives as well as plague marines do (against bolter fire), and definitely don't have the offensive capabilities that plague marines have.

I'm trying my basic CSM as 5 man squads with a special weapon (usually plasma or melta), mark of nurgle and a Rhino with a havoc laucher.
I feel its cheap enough and not bad.

Obviously whats better is 5 plague marines with 2 special weapons in a rhino with a havoc launcher... but that wasn't the initial question!

 Brymm wrote:
I'm trying my basic CSM as 5 man squads with a special weapon (usually plasma or melta), mark of nurgle and a Rhino with a havoc laucher.
I feel its cheap enough and not bad.

Thats like screaming "TAKE FIRST BLOOD" to your opponent imo.

Can't you say that about any rhino, though?

 mayfist wrote:

 Brymm wrote:
I'm trying my basic CSM as 5 man squads with a special weapon (usually plasma or melta), mark of nurgle and a Rhino with a havoc laucher.
I feel its cheap enough and not bad.

Obviously whats better is 5 plague marines with 2 special weapons in a rhino with a havoc launcher... but that wasn't the initial question!

Thats like screaming "TAKE FIRST BLOOD" to your opponent imo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mayfist wrote:

 Brymm wrote:
I'm trying my basic CSM as 5 man squads with a special weapon (usually plasma or melta), mark of nurgle and a Rhino with a havoc laucher.
I feel its cheap enough and not bad. !

Thats like screaming "TAKE FIRST BLOOD" to your opponent imo.

I totally disgree. There are a lot more less survivable troops choices that people take all of the time. Any combat squaded Space Marines unit would fall into this catergory. Unless Codex Marines has a way to get T5 troops? Or Grey Knights? This unit is more survivable than the mighty purifier minimum unit. A squad of plagues is roughly as survivable as a terminator squad... so how is this screaming "take first blood?"

 Red Corsair wrote:

 lunarman wrote:
People above have said plagues are still the best. Even for their increased points?

I do think they're strong, but I also like noise marines and can't decide which are better!

Noise marines are good anti horde and quite cheap compared to plague marines.

Plague marines are the same cost really. They went up one point but gained a plague knife which is ridiculously awesome. I don't understand how he equates a close combat weapon to a plague knife, they each are one point and one has poison 4+ which means they wreck other marines because they essentially have shred. I don't even understand how people think taking more then 10 plague zombies is broken. Lets do some number crunching eh?

100 bolters are shot at plague marines and then plague zombies in open ground. against the PM 100*4/81= 4.94 kills....Against zombies 100*8/27=29.63 kills....
Its laughable when you look at the numbers, PM still shot for shot, blow for blow take more wounds efficiently then any other unit in the codex, can STILL have 2 SW at only 5 models and are now even more efficient in cc.

basic marines with MoN have the same surviability per point as plague marines against everything but Str10, which negates FNP which will kill of the plagues faster. they also get 33% more atacks, shots, and models. They dont get plague knives or defenisve grenades though.

 Brymm wrote:

 mayfist wrote:

 Brymm wrote:
I'm trying my basic CSM as 5 man squads with a special weapon (usually plasma or melta), mark of nurgle and a Rhino with a havoc laucher.
I feel its cheap enough and not bad.

Obviously whats better is 5 plague marines with 2 special weapons in a rhino with a havoc launcher... but that wasn't the initial question!

Thats like screaming "TAKE FIRST BLOOD" to your opponent imo.

I totally disgree. There are a lot more less survivable troops choices that people take all of the time. Any combat squaded Space Marines unit would fall into this catergory. Unless Codex Marines has a way to get T5 troops? Or Grey Knights? This unit is more survivable than the mighty purifier minimum unit. A squad of plagues is roughly as survivable as a terminator squad... so how is this screaming "take first blood?"

It's not a squad of plagues. It's a squad of T5 marines.

But I agree with you. It's like speeders in loyalist codices, or any AV10/11 vehicle.

 Exergy wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 lunarman wrote:
People above have said plagues are still the best. Even for their increased points?

I do think they're strong, but I also like noise marines and can't decide which are better!

Noise marines are good anti horde and quite cheap compared to plague marines.

Plague marines are the same cost really. They went up one point but gained a plague knife which is ridiculously awesome. I don't understand how he equates a close combat weapon to a plague knife, they each are one point and one has poison 4+ which means they wreck other marines because they essentially have shred. I don't even understand how people think taking more then 10 plague zombies is broken. Lets do some number crunching eh?

100 bolters are shot at plague marines and then plague zombies in open ground. against the PM 100*4/81= 4.94 kills....Against zombies 100*8/27=29.63 kills....
Its laughable when you look at the numbers, PM still shot for shot, blow for blow take more wounds efficiently then any other unit in the codex, can STILL have 2 SW at only 5 models and are now even more efficient in cc.

basic marines with MoN have the same surviability per point as plague marines against everything but Str10, which negates FNP which will kill of the plagues faster. they also get 33% more atacks, shots, and models. They dont get plague knives or defenisve grenades though.

You just can't get t5 csm with feel no pain and fearless. Plus like you said they don't have plague knives or defensive grenades which are a big deal.

MoS, Icon of Excess, 10 bodies, 9 extra CCW, and a rhino. From there do whatever floats your boat you have FNP for the occasional plasma misfire, you can beat most things that aren't dedicated to CQC, and you can receive a charge with I5.

Use cultists to hold objectives close to your table edge and something mobile to keep them safe, like bikes.

Attomsk wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 lunarman wrote:
People above have said plagues are still the best. Even for their increased points?

I do think they're strong, but I also like noise marines and can't decide which are better!

Noise marines are good anti horde and quite cheap compared to plague marines.

Plague marines are the same cost really. They went up one point but gained a plague knife which is ridiculously awesome. I don't understand how he equates a close combat weapon to a plague knife, they each are one point and one has poison 4+ which means they wreck other marines because they essentially have shred. I don't even understand how people think taking more then 10 plague zombies is broken. Lets do some number crunching eh?

100 bolters are shot at plague marines and then plague zombies in open ground. against the PM 100*4/81= 4.94 kills....Against zombies 100*8/27=29.63 kills....
Its laughable when you look at the numbers, PM still shot for shot, blow for blow take more wounds efficiently then any other unit in the codex, can STILL have 2 SW at only 5 models and are now even more efficient in cc.

basic marines with MoN have the same surviability per point as plague marines against everything but Str10, which negates FNP which will kill of the plagues faster. they also get 33% more atacks, shots, and models. They dont get plague knives or defenisve grenades though.

You just can't get t5 csm with feel no pain and fearless. Plus like you said they don't have plague knives or defensive grenades which are a big deal.

I never said you could get t5 and FNP, but plagues cost 24 points while t5 marines can be as cheap as 16.