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 Jihallah wrote:
Does anyone else wonder why the army that's meant to be a slow mechanical marching wall of undying metal zombies...


....has the fastest and most mobile troops via its spamming of transporting flyers?



do whot?

That's exactly why: we have slow walking troops.
Duh.

 Jihallah wrote:
Does anyone else wonder why the army that's meant to be a slow mechanical marching wall of undying metal zombies...


....has the fastest and most mobile troops via its spamming of transporting flyers?



do whot?

With teleporting and turboboosting,/flat out, Necrons have been a mix of incredibly slow and incredibly fast units since 3rd edition.

Necrons are the technologically most advanced race in the universe...makes sense they have machines to cover their weaknesses.

buckero0 wrote:
There's a lot of hand and knee shaking about flyers. I've only seen one played and that was mine. it died the turn it came on. I think there are a lot of places(geographically or meta wise) the fliers don't exist or at least not in large numbers. I think I would be more afraid of large amounts of flying monstrous creatures, although i haven't seen any of those either.

Most of the flying vehicles I've seen, can't put out enough damage to worry about that much anyway. Usually they only get 2-3 options to shoot in a game anyway.

Every army list I see, there is someone saying " you don't have enough anti-flyer" units, etc. Personally, I'm more worried about the 50 power armoured marines or 200 orks or 30 terminators barrellng down my throat than some little jet taking pot-shots at me everyother turn.

Is it just my local gaming area, or are flyers really taking over the game like everyone says on the internet?

Personally, they're not that scary, I find that a multi-melta is very effective, even without the skyfire rule, so really, as long as you have anti-vehicle weapons, all should be fine

I had my doubts at first, but after playing 1 or 2 games with the dakkajet, how can you not consider it a threat? I wiped a BA assault unit off the table, right after they wiped out 20 boyz+nob. I'd say that was well worth the 110 points, the rest of the game they just harrassed, got thier points back easy!

 thefarseerofnorthryde wrote:

buckero0 wrote:
There's a lot of hand and knee shaking about flyers. I've only seen one played and that was mine. it died the turn it came on. I think there are a lot of places(geographically or meta wise) the fliers don't exist or at least not in large numbers. I think I would be more afraid of large amounts of flying monstrous creatures, although i haven't seen any of those either.

Most of the flying vehicles I've seen, can't put out enough damage to worry about that much anyway. Usually they only get 2-3 options to shoot in a game anyway.

Every army list I see, there is someone saying " you don't have enough anti-flyer" units, etc. Personally, I'm more worried about the 50 power armoured marines or 200 orks or 30 terminators barrellng down my throat than some little jet taking pot-shots at me everyother turn.

Is it just my local gaming area, or are flyers really taking over the game like everyone says on the internet?

Personally, they're not that scary, I find that a multi-melta is very effective, even without the skyfire rule, so really, as long as you have anti-vehicle weapons, all should be fine

Then you are insanely lucky. A one shot weapon with a 1 in 6 change of hitting is not effective.

Flyer heavy lists are another 'army type' that you can see.

They have some good match-ups and bad match ups. Take an example of a this army that I played against during BFS last weekend.
He had 75 genestealers infiltrating on the board. He can spread his army out and cover nearly the entire board. Where can the necron list with 5 flyers land his models?


A good matchup for flyers is a bike army. The low-count, high per-model cost, of this army makes it very vunerable to necron flyer spam. A necron flyer list can land ~25 STR 7 hits a turn when the flyers are on the board. This is bad news for a T5 army thats 25 (+upgrades) points a model.

 labmouse42 wrote:
Flyer heavy lists are another 'army type' that you can see.

They have some good match-ups and bad match ups. Take an example of a this army that I played against during BFS last weekend.
He had 75 genestealers infiltrating on the board. He can spread his army out and cover nearly the entire board. Where can the necron list with 5 flyers land his models?


A good matchup for flyers is a bike army. The low-count, high per-model cost, of this army makes it very vunerable to necron flyer spam. A necron flyer list can land ~25 STR 7 hits a turn when the flyers are on the board. This is bad news for a T5 army thats 25 (+upgrades) points a model.

The Genestealer example was pretty much what I was going on about earlier. Sure theres a couple armies that can pack in a boat load of fliers, but where are they all going to fit without zooming off or crashing?? I personally know that at only 1k points, I can take up some serious realestate on the table, and that just goes up and up the higher the points we play. Sooooo go ahead and try to cram your 5 fliers in there, when I already have a horde and a half of boyz, AND my fliers as well.

But I also think anyone that doesnt find fliers a threat to be either lucky or a bit crazy. Im not saying you should crap your pants when you see them, but dont scoff either, because they can kick some major ass on their own. I look at fliers as a serious force multiplier. Now I dont expect my jets to always make their points back, but they damn sure are going to hit my opponents where it counts, which will land me a victory

Flyers to me are just the latest marketing tactic from GW. And it is working.

My biker list is doing ok against them. I don't always win but I'm better than 50%. Of course I'm loaded with melta and also take Vulkan so...

The only thing I really don't like is that a heavy close combat army doesn't have many options other than to take anti-air or take flying transports (if they can). Either way it is spending points on non-melee stuff. Welcome to the flier edition of 40K I guess.

I might catch flak for it (... Eeeeh? ), but the new Chaos Dragon had me worried. A first turn surprise S6, AP Space Marine Armor, ignores cover saves is deadly. If a Chaos player brings three and you're a foot Marines army, you're boned. It has a 5++ so it will never jink.

I play Wolves with no allies. I have very little outside of a quad gun, which if I fight a list with one flyer, goodie. 3+ flyers? I'm screwed outside of luck and twin linked weapons. More so if they focus down the quad gun.

Buying guard allies is an option, but that's what GW wants...

 Wildstorm wrote:
Flyers to me are just the latest marketing tactic from GW. And it is working.

My biker list is doing ok against them. I don't always win but I'm better than 50%. Of course I'm loaded with melta and also take Vulkan so...

The only thing I really don't like is that a heavy close combat army doesn't have many options other than to take anti-air or take flying transports (if they can). Either way it is spending points on non-melee stuff. Welcome to the flier edition of 40K I guess.

Thats the trend this edition. Last edition was Transporthammer Coversave-K

Yup and don't expect it to change with new releases either. For 2 reasons.

1. We all know the best defense against fliers are having some of your own. This means as each new faction gets updated they can be given 1-2 new fliers. GW is right on the $$$.

2. There is no real reason to kill off fliers. Sure bring out some defense in the form of Interceptor with Skyfire for some factions, but in all honesty if it becomes possible to deal with 3+ fliers reliably and cost efficiently before they get to do anything you just kill off fliers completely. It would kill sales (from GW point of view) and reduce build diversity.

My wolf list is still doing fine, but against flyer spam, it's a stretch. Unless you have them, you're hosed. My only hope is TL weapons and divination powers.

As people say, 1-2 flyers can be managed by most TAC lists. Move to get out of his firing arc, , use some twin--linked heavy stuff you you have it and you can get by.

The issue, as i see it, is for armies that can toss out 4+ flyers and still have a good presence on the table. Right now, that is mostly IG and Necrons, who can set aside 500-600 points for their air force and still pack lots of high Av vehicles, durable infantry and scoring units.

Having used a storm talon twice, not impressed with it, got shot down by firewarriors!?!

Having used the storm raven twice, bit more impressed with hurricane bolters tl hb and tl ac it does give out a lot of shots while in rapid fire range then dumps my death company out the next turn.

Thinking of trying out tl LC and TL MM in a tourny next week

WOW

usually when I post a question I get 1 maybe 2 responses, I guess I touched a nerve or at least something that people were thinking about. Part of my hesitancy is wrapped up in my own inexperience as well as my current meta game.

Some flyers are better than others I concede. The Stormraven, IG flavors and new CSM dragon are on the better bang for your buck scale I think. Anything Armor 10 or 11 seems to be too easy to get a lucky shot to knock it out of comission. I can see where certain matchups are always difficult.

It just seems locally, the idea of hording troops makes the usefulness of flyers less viable as well. If he can't fit his flyer on the board in a decent position, it can't shoot effectively.

Mobile Torrent spammers are always rough. Assault troops knocking you off your objective turn 5 are always annoying. Shooting at paper airplanes usually knocks them out of the sky.

I have yet to conceptualize what a CronAir army looks like. But I guess I have a healthy respect for flyers now or at least the possibility of multiple flyers being a pain. I think a lot of it may depend on what army you're playing. As I mentioned, I've only seen on flyer on the board but I'm sure with time more will appear as well as certain books having the ability to deal with them.