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In the old codex, my favorite tactic was to spam icons in rhinos for mass deep striking (daemons, terminators, obliterators), so I could place my units where they were most needed. Sadly this strategy seems abit harder to pull off with the release of the new codex. The same units are still avalible for deep striking (except daemons) and are just as effective as before, but in the new edition you'll probably get them to early (+3 roll on turn 2) and you can't use rhinos + icons to get massive safe drop zones.

Enter: the Dimensional Key artefact

What does it do? If the bearer of the key kills a model in CC, you unlock it's powers, which means enemy models that start any phase within 12'' of the key treat terrain all difficult and dangerous terrain during that phase. Also, and this is the great part, "Any friendly units from this codex that arrive by Deep Strike after the Key's power has been unlocked do not scatter". So that's very our icons went. So now we can put down our obliterators anywhere on the board with no fear of scattering. Good bye long fangs, basilisks, well, basicly any heavy support.

This seems like a really great strategy to me, but there are two big things that hold it back.
1. Unlocking the keys power early, turn 1 or 2
2. Reservs arriving when you want them, basicly being able to use the keys power

The first one is the biggest hurdle, and the key to this working (pun intended =D), so here are somethings I thought of to make it work:
The character with the key. I think this should be a cheap lord on a bike or with a jump pack that has a high chance of winning duels. So something like this:

Chaos Lord, Dimensional Key, jump pack, MoK, Power Sword 130 Points

Enough attacks to compansate for S4, faster than most MeQ sergents and gets through most armour saves. He's not very durable, but if the wording on the key is anything to go by that doesn't matter, ones the key is unlocked you don't scatter for the rest of the game, so it doesn't matter if he dies.
The one other thing you can do to unlock the key on turn one is to always go second (althought I think this i prefereble in most cases anyway) so your opponent hopefully rushes some cannonfodders forward. This also means that this strategy will need some long range support in order to pop trukks, rhinos etc.

As for number too, the only thing I've been able to come up with is to pick strategic trait for your warlord and hope for a 4, Strategic Genius which lets you reroll your reserv rolls.

So what do you guys think? Could this work? Is there to much chance involved? I know I've overlookd allies and such, but I'm not knowledeble enought about that so. Please share your thoughts and ideas for this strategy

Give it to a flying demon prince. He will fly in 1st turn swooping and get into position, 2nd turn if he survives he'll assault and kill at least 1 model.

Not sure about 1st turn assaults, pretty hard to get off. maybe if you go 2nd with the Chaos Lord with the jumpack you're talking about, where the opponent rushes forward, and gives you an opportunity. However, most armies won't rush forward in this edition, so it's a tough choice.

I looked at this one too; it kills me that this is the only way to mitigate Deep Strike scatter in the new book, it doesn't work until after you kill something in HtH, and it doesn't help daemons at all.

The other thing you can use is an Aegis or Bastion with Comm Relay. The Relay also allows you to re-roll Reserves, and doesn't say failed Reserves, so you can re-roll successful as well. This gets you a 54% chance to keeping any given unit off the table turn 2, and again turn 3.

You could go really silly and take a skyshield.

I was looking at the daemon prince too, but I think he'll be abit to expensive, The cheapest you can make him with the Key and wings is 195 Points, but I agree that he'll be very relible to for getting that kill off.

I like the Comm Relay idea, and for a few more points you get some anti air + transport popping (Aeigas with lascannon and comms relay 105 points)

I tried making a alist around this strategy, and I think the lord who carries the key can't be a throw away since you can't give up the victory points for him dying so easely. I think a Nurgle lord on bike will work best since he have to take some punichment for zooming ahead.

Allied guard, take the master of the fleet and some cheap troops
Then a MoT lord on a disk (jetbike) gives you the reach you need.

 pretre wrote:
You could go really silly and take a skyshield.

I could, but that wouldn't allow me to assassinate stuff with my twinlinked meltaguns as well as this one =)

 Limbo wrote:
I like the Comm Relay idea, and for a few more points you get some anti air + transport popping (Aeigas with lascannon and comms relay 105 points)

Main Rulebook wrote:
Add one of the following:
-Comms relay (see page 104) 20points
-Gun emplacement with Icarus lascannon 35 points
-Gun emplacement with quad-gun 50points

 pretre wrote:

 Limbo wrote:
I like the Comm Relay idea, and for a few more points you get some anti air + transport popping (Aeigas with lascannon and comms relay 105 points)

Main Rulebook wrote:
Add one of the following:
-Comms relay (see page 104) 20points
-Gun emplacement with Icarus lascannon 35 points
-Gun emplacement with quad-gun 50points

One of the following -.- Too bad

I used to get turn 2 assaults with a chaos lord on a bike. Haven't played since 6th though. Can anybody say if this would be a decent idea?

I don't think this dimensional key strategy works as the primary idea for an army. I think its a nice buff, and pretty cool if it works, but it reads like a bad idea with a solo prince with wings. Best case scenario, you get first turn, and fly to the point where you'd be a sure charge away from a tac squad. In your opponents turn, assuming he doesn't see this coming, that is still a big, scary deamon prince, in charge range of his lines, and it must die now. At t5, even with 3+, that isnt really hard to do. It only, statistically takes around 50 bolter shots to down your prince, if he is wearing armor, and most armies will have more than enough power to do that. Princes aren't resilient enough to take on a whole armies firepower, which is what they will face if your opponent knows what you are trying to accomplish. If they know its coming, they can and will fire everything they have to kill it. If you want to use it as a distraction, then it will make a great distraction that might accomplish its goal, but if you are looking for a sure way to activate the key second turn, you need to keep looking.

The key just doesn't seem to work. It could be useable if it also counted if your HQ killed something with a ranged weapon, but as it stands when the key works, you need to force your army to either stay in reserve, or it's already on the field.

 Elnicko5 wrote:
I don't think this dimensional key strategy works as the primary idea for an army. I think its a nice buff, and pretty cool if it works, but it reads like a bad idea with a solo prince with wings. Best case scenario, you get first turn, and fly to the point where you'd be a sure charge away from a tac squad. In your opponents turn, assuming he doesn't see this coming, that is still a big, scary deamon prince, in charge range of his lines, and it must die now. At t5, even with 3+, that isnt really hard to do. It only, statistically takes around 50 bolter shots to down your prince, if he is wearing armor, and most armies will have more than enough power to do that. Princes aren't resilient enough to take on a whole armies firepower, which is what they will face if your opponent knows what you are trying to accomplish. If they know its coming, they can and will fire everything they have to kill it. If you want to use it as a distraction, then it will make a great distraction that might accomplish its goal, but if you are looking for a sure way to activate the key second turn, you need to keep looking.

Distracting a whole army for one turn sounds pretty good in my ears, but I agree that we need a more sure fire way to activate the key turn two. That's why I was thinking about a MoN Lord on bike with Nurgle Bikers escorts, can soak up tons of fire and should move fast enough to get into CC round two (or round one if your opponent is dumb). It does however have the same problem as the daemon prince, painting a big fat target over them.

How about this then, can we add a secondary strategy to the Dimension Key army? Say you can't activate the key early enough, what other threats can we have? The list I got now has 2 groups of Plague marines in rhinos, a blob of cultists, havocs with autocannons, the nurgle lord with bikers and 3 deep strike groups (2x3 terminators and 2 obliterators). I think it's a solid list, but doesn't really precent many hugh threats beside the biker group and the fear of deep strikers.

I would think it's best used on a Nurgle or other durable Lord with a big squad of Spawn or Bikers, optionally assaulting alongside other fast and scary things, like multiple Maulerfiends, so the Lord+Unit doesn't go in alone and unsupported. You take multiple squads of Terminators, all with combi-weapons (probably heavy flamer, 2-3 combi flamers, and some combi-plasma), and a Comm Relay to help keep them in Reserve on turn 2, which is the turn on which the Lord should be assaulting and killing something.

You paint a pretty picture Mannahnin =)
Big pressure from the front turn one and two, and then hopefully you can DS your assassins turn three.

 lunarman wrote:
Allied guard, take the master of the fleet and some cheap troops
Then a MoT lord on a disk (jetbike) gives you the reach you need.

yup master of the fleet will slow your (chaos) reserve rolls as they are enemy models

 Mannahnin wrote:
I would think it's best used on a Nurgle or other durable Lord with a big squad of Spawn or Bikers, optionally assaulting alongside other fast and scary things, like multiple Maulerfiends, so the Lord+Unit doesn't go in alone and unsupported. You take multiple squads of Terminators, all with combi-weapons (probably heavy flamer, 2-3 combi flamers, and some combi-plasma), and a Comm Relay to help keep them in Reserve on turn 2, which is the turn on which the Lord should be assaulting and killing something.

Beaten like a redheaded stepchild ><

Lord on bike was my answer to this, but the maulerfiends to support as well is a good idea too. The downside is multiple fiends means at least 2, and the bikes are a single choice from the FA slot, leaving you with one slot for oblits, 3 slots for terms/mutilators (lol), and 2 slots for raptors/warp talons.

The above idea seems to be choice, the one with allied guard.

although to be honest, allied guard are the best thing you can do with this codex, sadly. They certainly beat out cultists, and give you loads more options. Even a hellhound variant rolling forwards would provide another fast threat, if you didn't want to be all "GET TO THE VENDETTA"

Hah! Cool idea. That way you're only 25% likely to get your stuff turn 2, then after the lord gets his kill you can use the Relay to re-roll failed on turn 3, back to 75%. Nice!

The advantage of cultists over IG is that fact that they are one point cheaper above 10 and our ICs/special abilities can support them such as Fearless IC's Joining them. I plan on using them as basically 35 ablative wounds for my IC's right now. Once zombies get Faqed(if they do) then the Zombie horde will turn into 28 ablative wounds for my sorcerer.

 Leth wrote:
The advantage of cultists over IG is that fact that they are one point cheaper above 10 and our ICs/special abilities can support them such as Fearless IC's Joining them. I plan on using them as basically 35 ablative wounds for my IC's right now. Once zombies get Faqed(if they do) then the Zombie horde will turn into 28 ablative wounds for my sorcerer.

which is different from a power blob tanking for a runepriest/ wolf priest in 2+ armor how?

We are talking about the chaos codex. How does SW in IG blob register as an option?

Ig are not Brothers for the Chaos space marines so that is not an option for them.

 Leth wrote:
The advantage of cultists over IG is that fact that they are one point cheaper above 10 and our ICs/special abilities can support them such as Fearless IC's Joining them. I plan on using them as basically 35 ablative wounds for my IC's right now. Once zombies get Faqed(if they do) then the Zombie horde will turn into 28 ablative wounds for my sorcerer.

Wait a second there.

Marines (vanilla) are 16ppm
basic tac squad is 90
16x5=80
hmmmmmmm but always includes sarge...

Cultists- 4ppm
basic cultist squad is 50
4x10=40
hmmmmm but always includes champ...

hmmmm where do these 10p increases keep coming from...

old CSM codex- marines 15ppm
15x5=75
champ is 10p upgrade to one marine
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

So- cultists ARE 4ppm, even the basic squad. It's GW pricing the sarge/champ upgrade which you MUST take


hopefully this is making it the clear now yes

As far as I know, it says in the entry for Daemons Icons, "all friendly deepstriking units..." according to the FAQ's that's all you need, since as battle brothers the CSM's count as friendly units.

So this is the second option, deepstriking in an Allied Codex Daemons icon on turn 1, then in turn 2 your Oblits can come in off the icon if they wish.

perhaps you could pair this up with the Keymaster strategy, and not have to be so desperate about unlocking the dimensional key turn 2. Put it on a solid biker deathstar unit, for instance. And still have the chance of DS'ing a squad of terminators or Oblits properly... not to mention the terrain effects are nice as well. Especially when the bearer is on a bike and can move the bubble around.

I tend to be risky with my deepstriking anyway.

What about allying with Daemons and trying to get some Slaanesh daemons with Pavane? If the enemy deploys close enough and If you get your proper wave, and If they land in the right spot and If the Pavane hits and If you get a good distance, a Biker squad (especialy with an Icon of Wrath to reroll charge distance) has a chance of getting into combat on turn 1.

Not a great chance, what with all those Ifs, but it seems a possibility.

Myth wrote:
What about allying with Daemons and trying to get some Slaanesh daemons with Pavane? If the enemy deploys close enough and If you get your proper wave, and If they land in the right spot and If the Pavane hits and If you get a good distance, a Biker squad (especialy with an Icon of Wrath to reroll charge distance) has a chance of getting into combat on turn 1.

Not a great chance, what with all those Ifs, but it seems a possibility.

You would also need to be going second to deploy within 24 inches of something you could kill, in which case your opponent would realize your strategy (unless you are sneaky) and just run away from the Keymaster for a turn. So you could do it if you seized the initiative...

but it probably won't happen. Bottom line if your whole force is mobile and hard-hitting, with a lot of stuff deepstriking in, then you can probably unlock the key on turn two, in which case if you're lucky half your reserves could be coming in without scatter. But even one oblits squad coming in that way could be very nice, and the terrain effects as well. And you could be risky with your deepstrikers, and hope that if they mishap they just go back in reserve.

I'd say that if you feel like making a biker list around those T6 bikers, and like 4 deepstrikers, then it's worth it taking the key.

The more I ponder this, the more I dont think its something you could make an entire build off of.

I dont think theres any way you can guarantee getting off a 1st or 2nd turn assault from the keymaster.

Even making his unit type Jetbike by giving him a disc, it relies on your opponent not knowing what you're up to, & even if he doesn't, theres so many variables.

BUT

That said, I think if your list is heavy on deep strikers, its worth taking a key & fast, fightey HQ anyway, because even mid-late in the game a perfectly arrived deep strike can make all the difference. Plus it's the only way to make use of the warp talon's blind ability efficiently.

I think we are focused on the gimmick half of this thing. Once you activate the terrain bubble, nobody is really coming or going very fast. I think on a fairly sturdy unit like a nurgle biker lord with biker support this thing could be scary. Zoom up there early and hit a weak flank unit. Responding units will be slow to get you and shooting units will have a harder time running from you. In a mobile army this could help you dictate terms more. Hell, I may take this on my counter charge unit (I play death guard). Once you get close enough, I get my counter charge unit in there, kill one thing and boom, 12 inch terrain bubble! Who cares if it doesn't activate until turn 3, now I have a bubble that I can run into/around/through and you have to live with it. I think on a pretty durable unit it has some real potential.

Another way to think of it is as insurance... if you have oblits/warp talons in your list, against reserves not coming in until turn 4, I've had games like that. The terrain bubble can be very nasty in the meantime. In any case, If your reserves come in early- well, you score anyway by having them all come in early. Maybe be a bit risky with one deepstrike and if it mishaps, perhaps it will go back into reserve and come on again through the dimensional portal.

But yeah, I think it's better to have this on some unit that is nasty and tough and fast, not a lord you are planning on throwing away, even if he doesn't get into assault on turn 2. But deepstriking some pavane herald unit would certainly hasten that... and maybe some screamers while you're at it...

Has anybody thought about using the lord with key on a bike. Attach him to a unit of bikers with icon of wrath.

Then use Huron as the warlord and give himself infiltrate, which he will confer to the biker unit.

Deploy out of sight (if possible) and take second turn. With the re-roll for the charge distance it might just work.

If you take an IC with the infiltrate warlord trait (Huron i think) or manage to roll it for your Lord, you could Infiltrat your Lord on bike/with jump pack and get a Turn 1 charge.

i think.

You could user a throw away lord for this i suppose. You take huron as your warlord for his infiltrate ability. Then infiltrate a Jump Pack Lord with a power weapon (for a cost of 95 points) - if the lord dies, arse. but he has a decent chance of taking something with him, thus unlockign the Key.