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The reason I originally started a Chaos army was the old raptors models. Not the really old ones but the ones that went finecast a couple years ago.
I started buying them up on ebay before the CSM dex came out, prefering the metal ones to avoid breakages. I got 23 of them and then anxiously awaited the new codex.

When it came out I was less than thrilled. 2 points less thank a bikers(VotLW)! no special rules, just fear! No way to become troops?! Bikes on the other hand seemed awesome. Now I didnt want to be a power gamer, WAAC guy but I didnt want to get swept off the field with my new creation either. I really didnt want to go out and buy a ton of Chaos bikes, who btw arent really that interesting to pain or convert.

now how would you feel if I did this, on the proper base? Am I TFG? I dont feel i am going WAAC here.


**********************************
so update:
I am going to model ruined bikes from around the 40k universe. a warbike, a DE jetbike, a guardian getbike, and 4 space marine bikes(1 ultra, 1 blood angle, 1 ravenwing, and 1 white scar).
The raptors will be hovering over the wreckage with mechanical appendages carrying the extra twinlinked bolter or odd ccw.

So I decided to make my raptors on bikes bases. This wouldnt be enough however, as they didnt have the appropriate weapons, nor bikes. So I would make them WYSIWYG by adding twinlinked bolters, bolt pistol and ccw. I would also add a bike, except instead of them riding it, they would be flying over it.

The whole unit on the left and a Chaos lord on the right, with burning brand, lightningclaw, and powerfist(hammer)


Two bikers

Try beefing up the Raptors to wield weapons similar to the bikes. Like one-hand wielding twin-linked bolters'n'stuff

Otherwise I'd be okay if approached with this.

 ChiliPowderKeg wrote:
Try beefing up the Raptors to wield weapons similar to the bikes. Like one-hand wielding twin-linked bolters'n'stuff

Otherwise I'd be okay if approached with this.

my army is mechanicus themed(dark mechanicus). I am thinking of adding some servo arm like thing with the twin linked bolters on a few while having others carry the twin linked bolter and have servo arms that hold ccws.

More models is better than less models, generally speaking.

I'm sticking with my raptors, simply because codex plasma is around the corner and I don't want to buy models I won't need. Also I already run a biker army.

 Exergy wrote:

 ChiliPowderKeg wrote:
Try beefing up the Raptors to wield weapons similar to the bikes. Like one-hand wielding twin-linked bolters'n'stuff

Otherwise I'd be okay if approached with this.

my army is mechanicus themed(dark mechanicus). I am thinking of adding some servo arm like thing with the twin linked bolters on a few while having others carry the twin linked bolter and have servo arms that hold ccws.

Sounds like a cool idea

As far as assault marines go Raptors aren't bad.

Compared to the new underpriced chaos bikers yes they are not too great.

Honestly using something of a completely different unit type seems like crossing a bridge too far for me.

It would be one thing if you wanted to use the dark angel bikers from the box set as chaos bikers, not problem there, but using jump infantry models as bikers is just strange.

Hmm maybe I can put some wheels as debris on the bottom of the base.

I wouldn't call it WAAC; I wouldn't identfy it with wanting too much to win, but I would not be happy to see it on the table. They're two distinctly different unit types with very different rules.

Just wouldn't work for me, sorry. :(

If you were to model the raptors standing on the seats of bikes I would not have an issue with it.

But if not then I agree with what Mannahnin said above: "They're two distinctly different unit types with very different rules.

Just wouldn't work for me, sorry. :("

 DeathReaper wrote:
If you were to model the raptors standing on the seats of bikes I would not have an issue with it.

But if not then I agree with what Mannahnin said above: "They're two distinctly different unit types with very different rules.

Just wouldn't work for me, sorry. :("

well maybe I can have raptors on top of ruined bikes. Ill look into it.

Another option would be to just take both raptors and bikes. chaos spawn are awesome but i have a definite meh to the helldrake, which for a dark mechanicus theme says something about how crazy the helldrake looks.

Just no.

 Crimson wrote:
Just no.

even if I model wrecked bikes on the bike base with the raptor in a dynamic pose over the bike?

More photos

Icon bearer and the second plasma gun



Regular guy and the Champion



Automatically Appended Next Post:
One more

The two units have little resemblance to each other, I wouldn't allow them as bikers, but it doesn't mean they aren't good conversions.

Yeah, the models themselves look nice so far but I would certainly be rolling my eyes if you tried to use them in a game as bikers.

I wouldnt allow them because of 2 things . legaly because they block LoS in a different way . personaly because I love to see people spend a lot of cash on stuff , later is impossible to play .

Provided you were clearly using one rule set and ONLY one rule set for them (the rules for the bikers in this case), I would be ok with this. The LOS thing is a bit much to worry about unless we're talking high end competitive tourney in which case that might be an issue, but to be honest, as far as friendly games go, I don't see this as being too different from some of the "counts as" armies I've seen running around that did get accepted. If we're talking friendly game, I would totally allow it. Great conversion work by the way.

Makumba wrote:
I wouldnt allow them because of 2 things . legaly because they block LoS in a different way . personaly because I love to see people spend a lot of cash on stuff , later is impossible to play .

Changing the pose a model holds his sword changes LoS.

I doubt it will come up, I dont think I want to play a game with you, with or without my conversions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 blood reaper wrote:
The two units have little resemblance to each other, I wouldn't allow them as bikers, but it doesn't mean they aren't good conversions.

then you wouldnt allow them in any capacity. They are on bike bases, the are "on" actual bikes. They are armed identically to CSM bikers


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tycho wrote:
Provided you were clearly using one rule set and ONLY one rule set for them (the rules for the bikers in this case), I would be ok with this. The LOS thing is a bit much to worry about unless we're talking high end competitive tourney in which case that might be an issue, but to be honest, as far as friendly games go, I don't see this as being too different from some of the "counts as" armies I've seen running around that did get accepted. If we're talking friendly game, I would totally allow it. Great conversion work by the way.

yes, the army is going to be 1 horde of bikes, all looking like this. 5 chaos spawn, and 1 heldrake. No other bikes or jumppack units except the ones converted like this. I understand having either regular raptors or regular bikes would be confusing.

yes, the army is going to be 1 horde of bikes, all looking like this. 5 chaos spawn, and 1 heldrake. No other bikes or jumppack units except the ones converted like this. I understand having either regular raptors or regular bikes would be confusing.

Perfect. I would totally play you with these no problem in that case. I mean really, there was that thread here not too long ago where so many people said they would be willing to play their regular 40k army against a FW Pre-Heresy army because "Hey, if you spent all that money you deserve to use them.". Considering how badly outclassed a 40k army would likely be against a 30k army I really don't understand the resistance to something like this in a friendly game. I mean, spending money is easy. Any fool with a credit card can do it. You on the other hand, have taken a great deal of time and care to create something unique that is fun to look at. Not everyone can do that. So anyway, yeah I would play you no problem.

If you would want to run Raptors and bikes parallel you would have to make the difference pretty clear. For example you could use the new plastic Raptors to represent the literal Raptors and your models shown above for the bikes. In at least 9 of 10 cases I would play this (would depend on the daily mood).

Your models are awesome btw!

Those are really awesome!

Amazing sauce.

Tycho wrote:

yes, the army is going to be 1 horde of bikes, all looking like this. 5 chaos spawn, and 1 heldrake. No other bikes or jumppack units except the ones converted like this. I understand having either regular raptors or regular bikes would be confusing.

Perfect. I would totally play you with these no problem in that case. I mean really, there was that thread here not too long ago where so many people said they would be willing to play their regular 40k army against a FW Pre-Heresy army because "Hey, if you spent all that money you deserve to use them.". Considering how badly outclassed a 40k army would likely be against a 30k army I really don't understand the resistance to something like this in a friendly game. I mean, spending money is easy. Any fool with a credit card can do it. You on the other hand, have taken a great deal of time and care to create something unique that is fun to look at. Not everyone can do that. So anyway, yeah I would play you no problem.

You are aware that a competitive 30k army list is extremely hard to pull off against a normal 40k army? A well-built 40k army will often ROFL-stomp a 30k army without even trying. That's not to say that there aren't any hard counters to be found in the depths of the Horus Heresy, but a TAC list is almost impossible to make with the current set of rules FW have put out.

On-topic, I would be ok with the raptors so long as there weren't any other jump infantry or bikes in the army.

Interesting, it looks like your guys are facing every which way off the base. I had the same idea for jumpackers as bikers. In my mind (not built yet) they faced the base uniformly. But this... hmm

For me it would really depend on if you are using rapters and these converted "bikers" in the same army. If so that would be a deal breaker for me. Just would be tough to keep track visually through a game. The conversions are cool though, and if you were only using these and not regular raptors too, I'd let it go. Sounds to me, though, that you bought into a concept of a force you liked and then only changed it because the biker rules were better...that actually is kind of WAAC mentality. Even though the rules for raptors isn't as good as that for bikers I still run all the raptors I have as raptors because that is what I bought them for: funky looking jump-pack infantry. Of course I've never really been one to care when people say "Unit X is useless from codex Y", but that is just me.

Skriker

 Skriker wrote:
For me it would really depend on if you are using rapters and these converted "bikers" in the same army. If so that would be a deal breaker for me. Just would be tough to keep track visually through a game. The conversions are cool though, and if you were only using these and not regular raptors too, I'd let it go. Sounds to me, though, that you bought into a concept of a force you liked and then only changed it because the biker rules were better...that actually is kind of WAAC mentality. Even though the rules for raptors isn't as good as that for bikers I still run all the raptors I have as raptors because that is what I bought them for: funky looking jump-pack infantry. Of course I've never really been one to care when people say "Unit X is useless from codex Y", but that is just me.

Skriker

I have a squad of regular raptors, but I wont use them in the same army list. Unless someone wanted to play 4000 points, which I probably wouldnt do anyway, and at that point who isnt using some proxies.

Looking at the work you've put in and the correct bases, sure. But seriously you're just asking for conflict with this. I'd rather you ran them as BA or SM than do this.

Rules and WYSIWYG aside, being brutally honest these models to me look you're trying too hard to make a good model as a useful unit and ended up making it look worse than it was originally. An actual bike model looks infinitely better than what's here. I'm sorry, but it just looks too awkward; jump marine on bike base with bike wreckage? How is that supposed to work?

Honestly, there are a few things that don't sit right with me regarding this. One guy on a scenic base with a bunch of bike wreckage around him looks kinda cool...but seeing an entire unit of these guys flying through a biker graveyard is a bit...odd.

Maybe it's 'cause I fight Raptors a lot (my brother manages to unleash the rolfstompage with Nurgle Raptors all the time), but the Raptor models themselves automatically bring to mind the things that they can and cannot do on the tabletop. If I were to play an army like this I would probably have to keep breaking my suspension of disbelief to constantly remind myself I'm fighting bikers, not jump infantry. I'm sure all sorts of disparaging things could be said about my brain's capacity for keeping things straight, but I simply would not have fun playing against those units. Plus, it would look really damn funky to see Jump Infantry moving in biker-esque formations.

On top of that I don't really think raptors are that bad. Bikers are better, sure but unless you're playing in a tourney (which would probably not allow you to play these models as bikes if it's WYSIWYG because I don't think bike wreckage will count for them being bikes) or other ultra-competitive environment then I think it's fairly safe to take favourite units over competitive ones. As I mentioned before, I've seen my brother's raptors rampage quite impressively across the board. I really don't think there's much of a need to run them as bikes.