Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Fraggle wrote:
sorry if this is obvious, I have tried to check but am still unclear. If I pledge on this kick starter can I
A) pledge for units / models from the previous kick starter?

Yes.

Fraggle wrote:
B) is that at the kick starter price ?

Yes; at least in terms of Darklands: First Edition. The stuff from KS1 (Darklands: a World of War) is now mostly released, so will join the "existing miniatures" at 20% off UK RRP.

Fraggle wrote:
C) can I add money in the manager for previous hosts or were they only valid when the last kick starter was running?

We've removed the hosts (and "THE SWEET SPOT"). The reason for the hosts disappearing is simply because we will be releasing encounter hosts for each kindred, as soon as certain KS2 miniatures are available; secondly, the structure of the current project makes the hosts redundant in many ways.

Fraggle wrote:
D) does all of my £100 pledge for the current kick starter have to be spent on models within the active kick starter or can I use some on existing models?

You can use it on anything you can find on our webstore; it's given to you as store credit (Moneyback). You can use it as you see fit!

Fraggle wrote:
Also, are mierce planning on having any promos or exclusives from previous kickstarters at salute?

The only ones we can really do - because KS2 hasn't been fulfilled yet - is to have the limited editions Penda with Wolf Helm and Urbad. However, there'll be some Darklands: a World of War stuff that isn't actually released yet, and we should have casts of some KS2 miniatures to show off (but not to sell). There'll be an update on what we'll be bringing to Salute this Friday, on all three Kickstarter projects.

drazz wrote:
I think "C" needs clarification. There are many deal on the KS 2 that look appealing to new backers (myself included). Are they available using funds from this KS 2.5? For instance, could I go Gold Pledge and get the Kthones Gorgonar Host from KS2?

E) Can I pledge via KS 2.5 and get the pledge from KS2? More specifically, can I pledge 150 now and get the KS2 "Sweet Spot?"

I'm afraid not. You can't get the hosts now, and you can't get "THE SWEET SPOT" now.

I have to say, your questions beg another question or two - why did you not either back KS2, or mail us afterward to gain access, before the hosts disappeared? I'm asking simply so that we are better informed in the future and can make better decisions. Does that make sense? I hope so...

Fraggle wrote:
I'd love to be able to think E) was viable but I doubt it since they have made the book an additional extra, so no going back to previous book + pledges.

I'm gutted I missed KS2 proper due to RL issues. I would have been in for the book if not a skirmish host!

RL issues?


I have to say, I am wondering about opening up the hosts and sweet spot again; simply because so many of you seem to want it!

The only issue, I think, would be that it would annoy KS2 backers.

Thoughts?

Mierce Miniatures wrote:
I have to say, I am wondering about opening up the hosts and sweet spot again; simply because so many of you seem to want it!

The only issue, I think, would be that it would annoy KS2 backers.

Thoughts?

KS2 backers still got bonuses for spending above a certain amount, and it's not like you're giving a better deal or more models to the KS2.5 backers. There'll likely be complaints, but presumably you'd open it for KS2 backers again too, so they could get them again.

If it helps grow the game and remains financially viable for you guys, do it.

From my personal point, I have been watching since KS1. But, it's taken this long for me to basically "get it" in term of he background and factions to the game. It seemed like a really high learning curve to become introduced. (That's my own issue I guess.). And maybe the chaotic nature of the KS 1 and 2 presentations. You were building brand new products out of 8 (more really given the variable options within factions) factions and each was not only new to the vast majority of the KS customers, but new concepts as well. For instance, it's a fantasy setting, but there are no dwarves or elves, and the werewolves are mixed with regular humans. All of that is a good thing, as it sets your product apart, but for me at least it made it difficult to understand where I was supposed to place myself or what I was even looki g at.

Now I get it. It's a savage look at a brutal struggle to car e out some land in a mythical Britain. Celts and Romans and Brits and norsemen and it all seems so dirty and wonderful. And it helps that your models look like by belong among the very best in the business.

So, for me, it really took until now to understand what was happening. Two and a half KS's and many looks at your website to "get it." But snow I do and want in.

I'd definitely pledge £200 if the sweet spot was re-opened, providing I could take the art book in place of a duplicate rule book. I'm guessing this wouldn't be logistically difficult, changing the book graphic to an either/or option. It would also be great if the new stuff was included in there too but I suppose the logistics get more complicated at this point.

for Illustration, what I really want from KS 2.5 -

-Another monstrous infantry group (either the semi-feral werewolves or the byzantium demons)
-Another monstrous general, ideally Brugg death brute but Secchus fine also
-Another big creature, I'm torn between Malicant and Blood maw, and possibly Mjagnir, and would be happy with any of these

ofc this doesn't fit into sweet spot all that well so I'd make a compromise and buy the Ysian encounter host (I quite like the brutes and I really want Brugg) and add on £50 for Malicant or Maw. I'd end up with a few duplicates, some stuff I don't really want, and some second choices but I'd feel compensated with value for money. Aside from illustrating my own feelings, this little ramble is probably quite useless but there it is anyway. Point is I think that adding the old sweet spot would be great for KS2.5 and the new backers, and a re-vamped sweet spot would be even better for KS1&2 backers (many of whom will be in the situation illustrated above ie got much of what they really want already). It would certainly add complexity for Mierce and new backers though so I guess there's that downside. I don't see how anyone could be pissed off, unless we're talking about exclusivity of stuff which I suppose is a thing. I did used to like my ltd editions so I can imagine that some people do value this.

/ just noticed the brutes aren't on the sweet spot. I'd personally want to see those guys on it, and ideally the new wave of stuff too (adding options for new backers and flexibility for existing backers).
/ I see some people on the KS comments want to retain exclusivity on the minis, I suppose this is understandable and therefore the most legit thing to do (though I'd encourage them to think about what the "limited edition" tag is really worth, imo virtually nothing). So that being said, replace the KS2 exclusives with something comparable, ie similar sized minis from any of the campaigns or just £30 worth of mierce product!

Well, as someone who went in for a not insubstantial amount last KS I have no issues with the sweet spot being resurrected for this KS. After all, this is supposed to be a continuation of the last one. Plus, anything that helps us get to 80k and beyond is a good thing. Provided it remains viable, both financially and logistically, for Mierce.

I also (as a KS2 pledger) would have no issue with a sweet spot pledge. In fact, adding it in with the current new units would be amazing!!

I have been told straight from Mierce that Sweet Spot is out but the hosts from KS2 are in.

 Makaleth wrote:
I also (as a KS2 pledger) would have no issue with a sweet spot pledge. In fact, adding it in with the current new units would be amazing!!

I'd love something like this, but that would result in something that's actually a better deal than the KS2 sweet spot since the included unit has an extra character, and you get £10 free for every £100 you spend. There's also much more variety in the units compared to hosts, which were all £80 or £90. But something along those lines would be great.

If Mierce wanted to do the same deal, but include more units, it would probably make more sense just to add a free model to the rulebook, so long as you spend £150 during the KS, or something like that (probably easier for Mierce to just link it to Gold pledges). I think Sweet spot was quite complex for Mierce to process.

drazz wrote:
I have been told straight from Mierce that Sweet Spot is out but the hosts from KS2 are in.

Yes a bit disappointing but oh well. Are you sure hosts are in? Some backers of ks 2 were inexplicably upset that they provided a discount beyond what was available at the time (if included in 2.5) and Mierce seemed to rule out a return. I can't be arsed to wade through the comments again but I'm pretty sure this is the case. Hmmm, Brute encounter host + Malicant + Troll king could definitely work for me.

This is the response I got this morning after contacting Mierce directly through the KS:

Okay. There was a big discussion about this earlier on the comments, but basically - if you pledge here - you can:

- get 20% off the UK RRP of existing miniatures (i.e., those that are released to the general public, and Darklands: a World of War items that aren't yet released)
- get access to KS2, at KS2 prices (excepting "THE SWEET SPOT", the "Darklands, Uhtred and Finnan" deal and you won't get Danilo Cruz for pledging £150). You would get the free general on foot if you've purchased the general on horse. You can't get "THE SWEET SPOT", but you can get the hosts from that project.

That is interesting news!

There are a few hosts I might be interested in picking up...

I can confirm what Drazz said!

Hoo boy...

I'd been eying that Gabrax Encounter Host last KS, but couldn't get it then.

I think I'll be adding it in now though!

Question about the free exclusive with unit purchase. If I select the Slaughterers and go for the 3x warrior unit, would I still get the Enslaved Agriosavra? Or do I need to select the 5x unit with command? Thanks!

I'm fairly certain you get the free miniature with whatever version of the required unit you choose.

So yes, free mini with either the 3 or 5 Krok version!

Vhalan wrote:
Question about the free exclusive with unit purchase. If I select the Slaughterers and go for the 3x warrior unit, would I still get the Enslaved Agriosavra? Or do I need to select the 5x unit with command? Thanks!

You will get ONE free Ágriosávra regardless of how you buy the Slaughterers - so, yes.

Hope that helps!

BTW, for anyone that wants to skim what Mierce is saying on the Kickstarter, this is handy:
https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/mierceminiatures/comments

New concept art:

Byzantti - Acteon





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Norse concept - and an awesome one at that!

Hrokr:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Update #20

Apr 2 2014
£85,000 - Tykho, Skorpion Minor
Comment
5 likes

£70,000 has been and gone, huzzah! This means that Eoric's Pack is now yours to go for, but it also means that we have a stretch goal for you all...



Tykho, as you can see, is a Skorpion Minor - a lesser scorpion, in effect - brought from the wilds of the Byzantine Empire to serve in its legions. He's a wild monstrous beast and can be fielded in units of 1-3.

Tykho will ship in November 2014 along with the first "wave" of Darklands: First Edition II pledges.

The next stretch goal will be unveiled at £72,500...

I put a Norse vs. Khthones battle report up on my blog at http://thebeerwaaagh.blogspot.com/2014/04/darklands-battle-report-norse-vs.html. I'll cross-post it over here when I have time to embed the appropriate img tags, but for now you can click through if you want to see how a 499-gold game plays out.

Before I click on that....

Dice flow diagrams?

 azreal13 wrote:
Before I click on that....

Dice flow diagrams?

Nope. There's even a fluff intro. Don't say I don't cater to dakkaites! (I'll even write fluffy hour intros when I get home tonight.)

 razormage wrote:
Since people keep asking questions about models that weren't in my last Mierce Scale post, I did another one last night on my blog. I apologize for lighting/picture quality and general silliness of the post, but it's hard to say, "This model is bigger than all this other stuff" over and over without it being repetitive.

http://thebeerwaaagh.blogspot.com/2014/04/balancing-scales.html

Let me know what you guys think, and if there are other models you'd like to see compared!

That's an amazing size comparison blog post, thank you

It makes sense now why I thought all the models were too large- my very first purchase was Shaaroc, and he looks like he's one of the absolute biggest. Love the blood maw pics... that's why I have 2 of that model

So I decided to brave painting my Aalvór, Tain of the Mallax. No Cool Mini or not posting for me, but I tried to use more than one color!



That's also the first time I tried basing a figure on something other than the base they came with!

I was a bit sacrilegious and put him on a 40mm round instead of a 60- there seemed to be just too much empty space on the bigger base.

Behind him was the closest approximation my son could find to Aalvór. Too bad I can't seem to get the name translated correctly into English!

He thinks our friend here is actually related to a Capybara, not a ground sloth.

I told him it didn't matter since a Fomorian Mallax would still just plain eat his face off.

Huh...I don't think I had ever seen the sculpt for that one.

Good job with the paintjob.

Nice battle report. Slowly grasping the game. I'm hoping the Scots might turn out better monster wise than I'm currently seeing, as I'm liking the idea of Ysians with Vras to round out the British Isles. Failing that I've got some large scale boats I've not used, so I might end up doing Norse, Byzantii, Formor and someone else particularly sea worthy and have a naval board.

So having had a chance to read the musters and the quickstart rules today here are my comments:

First off the Miniatures are awesome but they have several of confrontations sculptors working for them so to be expected...some are hit and miss but every army has something thats looks good to put on the field.

However, omg the rules.........Ive played wargames for decades now and these really go against everything that the miniature wargaming community has done for decades now which is simplify and refine.

The quickstarter rules seem very unrefined and IMO will be completely unplayable at the higher gold cost/army size levels. Even at the 500-1000 gold range you talking quite awhile to get through a game short of memorizing all the different modifiers for each type of attack and defensive response.

Its nice that the defender gets to stay involved in the game by rolling dice but have seen a couple batreps now and read the rules it really seems some refinement and good judgement on what really needed to be included to make a solid system wasnt done.

A friend of mine also read them and has similar feelings about how overly modifer and chart heavy they are. Yes the charts are all based on a 1-10 vs a 1-10...well why didnt the designers do it 1-10 and 1-10....seems maybe just dividing all the stats by 10 would have helped simplify the game at least alittle bit.

Im not saying im adverse to some realism/complications in rules Ive played tons of game with all different levels of rules but this just seems overkill to get the desired effect IMO.

Maybe its just me, but this is going to kill the game from any mass following before it even gets going as most people are going to look at how complex the rules set is and just say na not interested I'll buy a couple minis for proxies for other games I do like to play.

Just for reference people felt confrontation 2/3/3.5 edition were to complex....those rules systems have nothing on complexity compared to this system. An I loved confrontation so im not adverse to reading and figuring things out but man, again think some refinement will be needed for anything going into the 1K gold lvl. Unless your just going to play monster/hero bash and go with all high cost stuff to keep the dice rolling down and not play real armies. Again not very helpful for keeping Meirce in business as they need to sell more than one of each mini to be successful im sure.

Been watching from the sidelines for awhile on these kickstarters and have been strongly considering buying in on this round but I dont think the rules are viable. Convince me otherwise.

chaos45 wrote:
So having had a chance to read the musters and the quickstart rules today here are my comments:
Been watching from the sidelines for awhile on these kickstarters and have been strongly considering buying in on this round but I dont think the rules are viable. Convince me otherwise.

First off, the rules are but one part of what you can buy. So many of the Darklands models can be adapted to WHFB without even imagination stretches, so you can just buy the models you like, drop them into any Fantasy game, and go from there without ever having to play a game of Darklands.
I would disagree with there being too many modifiers: I play tons of WHFB, and calculating combat resolution is remarkably complicated with modifiers. "I did eight wounds, and you did four, you have a banner and a BSB, I have a banner, you have three ranks, you have a flank, I lose my rank bonus because you've got me in the flank with a multiple-rank unit, you have a charge, and you charged downhill. I lose combat by three." As you play, you learn the modifiers. Most in Darklands are obvious: I have a +1 to hit you in combat because I'm behind you; I have a -2 to hit you because of long range and moving, but you're a large target so I half the difficulty, etc. Look how many modifiers Warhammer has to hit with shooting: Skirmishers, moving, range, Stand and Shoot, cover, hard cover...
The main complication in Darklands comes from a mechanic that no other game system uses: Orders. Placing units under different orders and having to change those orders is an accurate representation of some of the chaos that goes on in warfare, and it adds a level of strategy that really adds to the strategy required for the game. You can ignore the Orders system and still play a very rewarding game without having to worry about your units not doing what you want. I play O&G, so I'm used to my units charging across the board when I don't want them to, or refusing to make a charge.
I can hear complaints, "What about target restrictions for Feral or Wild units! That's hard to remember!" Have you ever run a Frenzied unit in Warhammer? Exact same restriction. "What about the complications in units picking who they're shooting at?" One of the biggest complaints I hear about 40k is the inability of units to split fire. Half the unit can't see that Tyranid Hive Tyrant their missile launcher is shooting, but can see the unit of gaunts? Shame they can't fire at those instead! Oh, wait, Darklands fixes that problem.
I agree that the rules seem unrefined; the reason is that the game has only been playtested by a handful of people. I'm sure Warhammer was not a well-oiled ball of rules when it first came out, but now every contingency is accounted for and no grey areas are left... oh, wait, TOs have to handle dozens of vague or ambiguously worded rules questions in every Warhammer tournament.
I can understand a desire for simplicity, but I think the formal language and weird organization structure of the rulebook itself may be what's throwing you off, rather than the rules themselves. I strongly, strongly encourage you to set aside a couple of hours and try proxying a <500 gold game with your existing model collection before you pass judgement. If you want to simplify the rules to experiment with, drop the Order restrictions on units (just let them do whatever they want), and ignore the effects of Acuity on units (target restrictions, etc). These add levels of strategy that make the game a lot more interesting, but are complicated and can be skipped in smaller games without compromising the overall feel of the game, especially when starting out.

I went ahead and ordered a rulebook, and I have no idea when I'll realistically get a game in. I don't have the time or players handy to play this game the way it's supposed to be played.

I'll certainly give it a fair shake, and I've got plenty of time to try and get the rules down pat. Maybe when my kids are a lot older?

That book is going to be full of awesome artwork, good back story stuff, and is going to be the kind of book I love to come back to over and over.

Just like my old Rogue Trader era 40k rulebook. Never used it correctly in a game, but my god was that book gazed at from cover to cover.

Also, new bird looks ace.

I'm resigned to not playing until the final rulebook lands in my paws. Firstly, I can't seem to absorb info off a screen the same way I can off the page, and my printer has died with a replacement very low on the financial priorities list, and secondly, does anyone else find the rather abstract nature of the musters (just a list of stats and rules, with no accompanying fluff) somewhat hard to reconcile with the various units and models?

Perhaps I'm just conditioned to 40K codexes, but a description of the unit and the way it fights really helps me interpret the rules into game behaviour (assuming they correlate of course!)