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Im going to get new models today and cant decide whether to get another defiler or a forgefiend

the forgefiend is cheaper point wise and has the same number of attacks/HP but less strength and with his two cannons he shoots 8 shots
but the defiler comes with a move versatile weapons load out BUT i already have one

i dont know which to choose id like to hear arguments for each. I dont want to just run out and grab a forge fiend cause its "New"
im currentlly running a thousand sons army with a defiler for heavy support and a 20 man CSM squad to grab objectives.

Just wanted to see which you guys thought would be better!

 Guilldog wrote:
Im going to get new models today and cant decide whether to get another defiler or a forgefiend

the forgefiend is cheaper point wise and has the same number of attacks/HP

Defilers have 4HP, Forgefiends have 3.

I prefer variety: forgefiend

 Valkyrie wrote:

 Guilldog wrote:
Im going to get new models today and cant decide whether to get another defiler or a forgefiend

the forgefiend is cheaper point wise and has the same number of attacks/HP

Defilers have 4HP, Forgefiends have 3.

really i thought they were the same, im at work so i was just going off of memory but ok.

Forgefiend is good, Defiler not so much. Easy choice.

They are both overpriced. The forgefiend a little less so. I think the better choices are predators, havocs, obliterators, or a soul grinder.

The defiled with all ccw load out and the battle cannon is pretty good, keep it out of Los, plus the defiled is a cool model fiends, not so pretty

 jamessearle0 wrote:
The defiled with all ccw load out and the battle cannon is pretty good, keep it out of Los, plus the defiled is a cool model fiends, not so pretty

Yeah mine is a counts as soul grinder now. Better armor, deepstrike, and significantly cheaper.

I like the fiends better than the defilers apperancewise, so I dont think it is clear cut.

the defiler is just too expensive for a battle cannon. a LRBT is cheaper and more surviable. (av14 means less glances and pens. 4hp, IWND and a 5++ dont always help against one meltagun.)

If the Defiler had been front 13, I could see it being a choice, but it really is too expensive for what it does.

It remains to be seen if the Forgefiend is going to end up being a good choice or not.

 Exergy wrote:
a LRBT is cheaper and more surviable. (av14 means less glances and pens. 4hp, IWND and a 5++ dont always help against one meltagun.)

This is actually a very good point, just take some allied imperial guard and make leman russ "stalk tanks" although I wouldn't have thought Malta gun armed troops would be able to get close enough to be fair, depends how you deploy

Mathhammered the forgefiend will get 4 hits with its autocannons, 4 of which will wound or 1 or 2 penetrate. Imo thats not a good trade off for that much in points, the daemonforge rule should allow re-rolls to hit, then it would be awesome.

The maulerfiend is crap. Its WS3 with too few attacks, it will kill 1 or 2 marines in a charge. Against vehicles it is good however as it hits on 3s in which it is a great counter to guard armour parking lot or razorback spam

Pred's all the way. Armour 12 and less is so much easier to wipe off the board in early turns, and that BS 3 really hurts it.
Pred - TL lascannon and HB sponsons. - 120.
So really, your paying 50 points for all the demon rules. i'd say cut losses and invest in more preds!
Disappointed in oblitoraters, is it not enough they have to stand still? and now can't even fire the same weapon every turn! FOR WHAT REASON GW?!.

Oblits have Slow and Purposeful, which gives them Relentless.

 jamessearle0 wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
a LRBT is cheaper and more surviable. (av14 means less glances and pens. 4hp, IWND and a 5++ dont always help against one meltagun.)

This is actually a very good point, just take some allied imperial guard and make leman russ "stalk tanks" although I wouldn't have thought Malta gun armed troops would be able to get close enough to be fair, depends how you deploy

yeah, if you just want the battlecannon, which you do, then you should just go for the cheapest wrapper.

I've been pondering the value of a forgefiend in reserve.

now as a marine player, I know I don't like S8 plasma cannons. No sir, not one bit!
With such a large scary looking target, with scary cannons to boot, I can see alot of firepower coming into my 175+ plasma cannon walker.


Ahhhh, I said the key word there. Walker. A static plasma cannon will force any marine in its LoS into cover, or be vaped. Even TEQ's won't cross an open field covered by a plasma cannon- it's madness. A forgefiend has the same upside I saw in my plasma cannon dreadnoughts- It moves and shoots. It is not static- what other plasma cannons can you get in C:SM that are mobile? This is the value of a plasma cannon dread.
So I'd like to get a forgefiend, keep it in reserve and have it walk on turn 2-3 (which is probable, especially if I take IG allies for my cultists) and pop shots at an angle that catches a marine squad out of cover. I can avoid the first turn torrent of fire, guarantee a volley hopefully against something out of cover that my helldrake isn't going to baleflame who's probably going to arrive on the same turn.

Thoughts?

 Jihallah wrote:
I've been pondering the value of a forgefiend in reserve.

now as a marine player, I know I don't like S8 plasma cannons. No sir, not one bit!
With such a large scary looking target, with scary cannons to boot, I can see alot of firepower coming into my 175+ plasma cannon walker.


Ahhhh, I said the key word there. Walker. A static plasma cannon will force any marine in its LoS into cover, or be vaped. Even TEQ's won't cross an open field covered by a plasma cannon- it's madness. A forgefiend has the same upside I saw in my plasma cannon dreadnoughts- It moves and shoots. It is not static- what other plasma cannons can you get in C:SM that are mobile? This is the value of a plasma cannon dread.
So I'd like to get a forgefiend, keep it in reserve and have it walk on turn 2-3 (which is probable, especially if I take IG allies for my cultists) and pop shots at an angle that catches a marine squad out of cover. I can avoid the first turn torrent of fire, guarantee a volley hopefully against something out of cover that my helldrake isn't going to baleflame who's probably going to arrive on the same turn.

Thoughts?

It won't work. The thing moves 6" and only has a 24 inch range. It is much weaker than a vindicator.

I'd go for predators really, now that it's very cheap.
Or Vindicator.

If it's the new fiend model that appeals, as opposed to its rules, then some conversion (with the help of a well-stocked bitz box) can turn it into a counts-as something else (even something like a predator, if you're a creative converter) - that's the joy of chaos modelling.

To be honest a griffon battery (3 for 225 points) sounds like it would be great, it's what I'll be taking 3 x s6 ap4 indirect fire range 12-48 shots a turn even meqs will fall prey to it, oh only ap4, that just means meq lists will under estimate it's firepower

So If I look at the topic of the post: Defiler vs Forgefiend, I would say:
First you have to look at what it is that you really want out of this new fighter since they have very different roles on the field. The Defiler is an all around fighter, very powerful at long, medium and short range (Close combat), he is mostly anti infantry at long and medium range with the awesome BattleCannon and the TL Heavy flamer (the Reaper autocannon I would consider replacing for an extra Att) but has the potential to crush just about anything ( Characters, MC or vehicules) once he gets in Close combat with his 6 Str10 Ap 2 Att on the charge. He is very big and quite scary though so you can expect a lot of shots to come his way. 
The Forgefiend on the other hand is mostly just anti vehicule with his Hades Autocannons, I won't speak about his ectoplasm guns since, as was previously mentioned the Vindicator is a much more solid choice if what you are looking for is a strong 24" ap2 blast weapon wielding vehicule.
So back to the Hades Autocannons, I like the  range they have and those 8 shots he can pull out as it should hit 4 times (Bs 3 kinda sucks on non-blast non-TL weapons but having 8 shots help a lot), these 4 Str8  hits should be able to reliably hurt vehicles, especily if they aren't AV 13 or 14. So as an anti vehicule dude he can pull his weight... sorta, he is a bit expensive for this, a Predator is much better though pound for pound. When it comes to anti  infantry his ap 4 isn't going to cut it against space marines, he isn't likely to kill more than one per turn and wasting a 175pts dedicated shooter to kill one space marine per turn is a big fail, even considering the pinning test this will force on them, this being since space marines are so popular. I would consider him as a long range anti vehicule dude and if you are lucky enough to fight against Nid Warriors or Raveners (maybe there could be other stuff that would be a good target but I cant think about more at the moment) than maybe use him against them. 
I refered to him as a dedicated shooter since he really sucks in Close combat, he has low Ws and Att Characteristic and worst of all has no Dreadnaught weapons so has no armor piercing at all and Str 6 being not bad but definitely not Str10, also in comparison to the Defiler he has less Hull points so isnt as survivable. He is a bit smaller so could be minimally easier to hide.
I personally don't really like the Forgefiend, I do like the model, luckily I actually do like the MaulerFiend so that allows me to use the Dinobots, (very quickly I like the Maulerfiend since he moves very fast and isnt so expensive, his magma cutters gives him the extra attack he might, at first glance, seem to be missing)
The Defiler is a bit expensive for something that only has AV 12 but looking further than just this he makes up for it in my mind, he is a lot tougher to kill than a LandRaider if your opponent has any Lance weapon ( Eldars, Dark Eldars and Mycetic Spore Zoanthrope) due to him having a 5+ inv, "it will not die" and 4 Hull Points, then, considering these last points and the fact that he can kill people in close combat before they get to hit him (if they are unwieldy or Ini 2) I would argue that he is close to being as durable as a LandRaider even against the other armies. At least about proportionally as tough as the LR since he is cheaper. 
In the end I guess I am saying the Forgefiend isn't worth it but the Defiler is, if you like the Dinobots go for the MaulerFiend as he is cheaper and generally better, as long as he doesn't get shot down very quickly he will rip through vehicules with absolutely no problems and infantry will have a very hard time hurting him in CC since he is a walker.