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 mattyrm wrote:
You can call yourself Scotty McHaggis, sword dance, sit on a bucket, wear a kilt seven days a week and never eat vegetables, and be first and foremost Scottish without needing to not be British as well, so why bother?

How has no one put you on TV or at least given you a newspaper column yet?

 Manchu wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
You can call yourself Scotty McHaggis, sword dance, sit on a bucket, wear a kilt seven days a week and never eat vegetables, and be first and foremost Scottish without needing to not be British as well, so why bother?

How has no one put you on TV or at least given you a newspaper column yet?

The TV show would have to be so heavily censored it wouldn't be worth making

Gotta admit though, I'd watch it, and I fething hate TV

He could do a running commentary of the build up to the Independence vote.

I think "Jock" should be replaced with "Scotty McHaggis". It's pretty jovial and completely inoffensive.

 Manchu wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
You can call yourself Scotty McHaggis, sword dance, sit on a bucket, wear a kilt seven days a week and never eat vegetables, and be first and foremost Scottish without needing to not be British as well, so why bother?

How has no one put you on TV or at least given you a newspaper column yet?

I'd subscribe to the newspaper or set up so I could watch the show and I'm well and aways across the pond.

I imagine that, via Dakka, we could give Matty enough hits to get him featured on a number of news aggregation sites.

And later Dakka is named a key factor in winning Scotland's independence

 mattyrm wrote:
Considering that the tories benefit from an independent Scotland, why would he not grant Salmon all he asks?

If England was voted for by the English, then I would not have to put up with Clegg. England is pretty blue except for scouser and the north east.

So, I win either way, I have a historical soft spot for us staying the UK, but as a Tory, I win if they leave as well.

And the look on all the geordie and scouse faces..... Oh feth it, I hope they leave.. Can we kick Wales out as well?

If Scotland leaves the specific United kingdom that holds permenant seat on the UN security council will not exist and the seat may be removed. This is more likely if Obama is still in the White House. Romney will likely block it to prevent the US being outnumbered in the security council, and allow a transition as China and the US did ensuring that Russia inherited the Soviet seat. France will want us downgraded to secure their primacy in Europe. Which is fething odd as they are hardly WW2 victors. India is most likely to replace us, which China will propose and France will back out of self interest. When earlier this year Cameron mentioned problem to Salmond quietly, Salmond replied openly on this issue via the press. This indicates that first this threat is a real one and second Salmond thinks such a disaster would actually be a political bonus to him purely bacause it will harm the UK.
Most of the real problems we will face in the following ten years will be directly ancillary to this.

This will put into question our nuclear role, which Salmond also wants removed from Scotland. Some MSP's have openly talked about doing this in a way that forces"England" to give up its nukes.

Scotland will also ensure we get a bad price for the oil may may nationalised the corporations with minimal compensation.

As is already happening in western Scotland, English residents will have the heat turned up to get them to leave by a rise of nationalism. Some English are already being forced out of certain areas.

If Scotland leaves Wales will get very restless even though it cannot economically survive as an independent state, the Troubles in northern Ireland will likely stir again. Both the current Welsgh assembly and Northern Irish assembly have cautioned against scottish independence for this reason. terorist campaigns in wales are not unfeasible.

With our removal from the security council Spain will invade Gibraltar and Argentina will invade the Falklands backed up by China and Latin America.

China will complete Obamas move to feth up the rest of our oil possessions and replace any remaining business influence in Africa and Asia.

With a reduced standing London will no longer hold off New Yorks challenge for financial primacy causing the steady drop in city income, a very large portion of our surviving economy.

The improverished rump nation of England might have a thoroughly Tory chav generation but the now economically backward and still thoroughly self centered and dogmatised middle classes will all vote Labour and ever rather bring back their old hero Tony Blair than suffer a Tory government that 'caused ' the reduction of their own wallets.

While Salmond cannot claim an anti monarchist agenda at this time for political reasons many in th SNP are vocal republicans, some very venomously so. an independent Scotland wil remove the Monarchy on the death of Her Majesty and some believe wont even wait that long. Even Australia will wait until the current monarch dies out of respect for her, the Nats don't give a feth however.


The Uk is in deep trouble, the safe path through is not easy it involves holding some key issues. I would not put it past some Tories giving away Scotland by letting Salmond get his way and give him the opportunity to jerrymander the election, which he has the level of immorality and motivation to do. it might give the Tories and extra term with no Scottish labour PM's to contend with, so its all worth it isn't it.

No matty, this issue isn't a joke.

Sounds like a Dr Who episode

I don't see the UK losing it's security council seat. Obama might not be the UK's biggest fan, but he's going to want to keep allies and culturally similar powers on the security council. I think the French would be the same.

Though with all the Eurosceptic xenophobic rhetoric floating around england, maybe they'd be fed up enough to change their minds

It'll be interesting, whatever happens. I think the Troubles are stirring again anyway, RIRA members have been caught spying on the Garda Special Branch members, huge numbers of pipe bombs have been planted in dublin since the Queen's visit, and the RIRA are engaged in a full on gang war for control of the republic's drug trade. That's not even mentioning the continued attacks on british soldiers in the north, trouble at orange order parades getting worse year on year and the rise of Sinn Féin on both sides of the border.

I think it'll even out, because I reckon this can all be explained by pissed off people in a tough economic situation becoming militant, but yeah. The devolution or independence of scotland will probably have knock on effects beyond what anyone expects.

Frankly, I think being on the security council is the only thing keeping the UK relevant on the world stage. Their role as a financial capital is getting eroded year by year and they havn't been a major military power for the better half of a century.

On the plus side, direct order Forge World products will become cheaper as the Pound weakens

 Orlanth wrote:

As is already happening in western Scotland, English residents will have the heat turned up to get them to leave by a rise of nationalism. Some English are already being forced out of certain areas.

Sorry, what?

Would you care to back up this statement with anything?

Da Boss wrote:
I don't see the UK losing it's security council seat. Obama might not be the UK's biggest fan, but he's going to want to keep allies and culturally similar powers on the security council. I think the French would be the same.

its by far my single largest concern. Its not one floated openly. but Salmond bless him decided to do so when it was discussed.

If Salmond and Cameron are publically known to have discussed this threat I cannot dismiss it as that unlikely an eventuality. If Romney gets in it wont happen, with Obama I am not so sure. He will get the opportunity to stick the knife in deep, and allowing for what her thinks of the UK I wouldn't be surprised if he does that.

The Uk is facing three electoral disasters, we will come out of it ok if any one of the three goes wrong. We can if any two. If all three go wrong......

Salmond winning an independence referendum vote in 2014.
Obama winning a second term in 2012.
Blair making a Labour Party conferences comeback in 2013 for the 2015 election.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Frankly, I think being on the security council is the only thing keeping the UK relevant on the world stage.

Really?

Their role as a financial capital is getting eroded year by year

London is one of the three major financial centres for the global economy (along with New York City and Tokyo) and it has the sixth largest city economy in the world, after Tokyo, New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago and Paris. It is not exactly irrelevant.

and they havn't been a major military power for the better half of a century.

Given that our forces are currently all over the world fighting in many different theatres, second only to the US in terms of boots and material on foreign soil, I'd say that we are a pretty major military power, with a great deal of current experience in front line combat, peace keeping, etc.

Da Boss wrote:
I don't see the UK losing it's security council seat. Obama might not be the UK's biggest fan, but he's going to want to keep allies and culturally similar powers on the security council. I think the French would be the same.

Though with all the Eurosceptic xenophobic rhetoric floating around england, maybe they'd be fed up enough to change their minds

It'll be interesting, whatever happens. I think the Troubles are stirring again anyway, RIRA members have been caught spying on the Garda Special Branch members, huge numbers of pipe bombs have been planted in dublin since the Queen's visit, and the RIRA are engaged in a full on gang war for control of the republic's drug trade. That's not even mentioning the continued attacks on british soldiers in the north, trouble at orange order parades getting worse year on year and the rise of Sinn Féin on both sides of the border.

I think it'll even out, because I reckon this can all be explained by pissed off people in a tough economic situation becoming militant, but yeah. The devolution or independence of scotland will probably have knock on effects beyond what anyone expects.

Attacks on the Orange Order aren't anything new. It seems worse because they (the Orangemen) keep getting bolder and more aggressive. (Not ness. violent aggressive) Hell they even applied for a permit to march through Dublin this summer.

 Medium of Death wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

As is already happening in western Scotland, English residents will have the heat turned up to get them to leave by a rise of nationalism. Some English are already being forced out of certain areas.

Sorry, what?

Would you care to back up this statement with anything?

I haven't heard of this happening either...

Maybe its personal observation?

 Grey Templar wrote:
Maybe its personal observation?

I live there and have noticed nothing yet

 Grey Templar wrote:
Frankly, I think being on the security council is the only thing keeping the UK relevant on the world stage. Their role as a financial capital is getting eroded year by year and they haven't been a major military power for the better half of a century.

On the plus side, direct order Forge World products will become cheaper as the Pound weakens

Britain hasnt been a major power for 50 years, and never will be again.. but so what? Why should that bother anyone? And how does one affect the other?

When I was in CA in 2009, I used to get $500 out of the ATM and it cost me £230. Now it costs me £320, was Britain a major military power in 2009 and the currency has devalued because now in 2012 we are puny and don't matter on the world stage?

Also, who gives a gak anyway? Some (Republicans) Americans think everyone else in the world has a hard on to have big tanks, when lets be honest, it has feth all to do with anything. The best ten places to live in the world are little countries like Norway and Denmark. Does having the biggest military really matter to a starving mother in the bronx who can't feed her fething kids?

Nationalism and Patriotism has always been ridiculous because you live your life out utterly unaffected by these things, you have a nice family or a gak family, you have a good job or a gak job, what has that got to do with being a citizen of a nation that has the most fighter planes?

Ill put it in laymans terms, If I live in somewhere famously less hard working... say Belgium, and I earn $250,000 a year and live with a beauty queen, my life will be way better than an American who works 50 hours a week for $35,000 a year and has an obese missus with a cleft pallete...

Do you really think "being a big player" actually matters to you as an individual?

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Frankly, I think being on the security council is the only thing keeping the UK relevant on the world stage.

Really?

Their role as a financial capital is getting eroded year by year

London is one of the three major financial centres for the global economy (along with New York City and Tokyo) and it has the sixth largest city economy in the world, after Tokyo, New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago and Paris. It is not exactly irrelevant.

and they havn't been a major military power for the better half of a century.

Given that our forces are currently all over the world fighting in many different theatres, second only to the US in terms of boots and material on foreign soil, I'd say that we are a pretty major military power, with a great deal of current experience in front line combat, peace keeping, etc.

All these things are connected, and can unravel with the wrong pressure point being applied.

Take Libor for example, that was nothing new. Schenanigans like that are commonplace and overlooked, its how the woprld market works. You think capitaslism is honest? Nio libor because a scandal because it allowed New York to hit London, which has far more relaxed trading restrictions.
One pound in seven in the Uk pensions market is linked to BP. Which is being unilaterally and unlimited blame for the Macondo oil spill. The US had even ring fenced US investors in BP and sought compensation from them. Stocked the courts with his own appointed followers who promptly limited liability of other companies involved counter to the usual allocation of blame. Thus blaming the ones with the capital and outside the country rather than those operating the oil rig.. If Texaco or another supergiant had this problem it would have been handled very differently.
This will start to blow up in the courts in about 2013, safely in Obamas second term and it is strongly believed that the stripping of BP is the intended result. the UK government has not ringfenced BP assets outside the US, though it should have done so.

BP has a defence it can use, Obama flagrently violated the companies rights in 2010 which would normally cause a case to be thrown our, but with Obama appinted supreme court judges ruling on this that argument will not be heard.

This could by itself collapse the UK economy, via a collapse in the pensions market. Unless BP assets outside the US are ringfenced by dictat by Whitehall and BP is nationalised. That would save the economy but lead to a direct trade dispute with the US, Its the elephant in the room noone has the balls to confront.

That of itself has nothing to do with Scotland, its just part of the growing avalanche of gak that our government and people are largely ignoring.

No, it doesn't matter to me or anyone else on a personal level. But it will matter to those in politics.

I'm sure this isn't true of all of them, but from what I have seen of british politicians is that they consider the UK to still be an important world power. Almost as if they have a tradition to uphold. Maybe a couple hundred years of being the most powerful country in the world gives you a big head.

The UK sends soldiers all over the world as if they are still a major player, but I don't believe they are. Again, this is my personal opinion and take on the situation.

Frankly, I would consider France to be a bigger player then the UK at this point. I forsee a steady decline in the UK's overall importance in the next century.

I don't think the UK has been all that important since the Cold War. The situations where they are involved are mearly the dying gasps of a world power long since fallen from power and relevance.


No offense intended

 Orlanth wrote:

If Scotland leaves the specific United kingdom that holds permenant seat on the UN security council will not exist and the seat may be removed.

That's highly unlikely. There is good precedent for the transference of a seat to the dominant party in a union. Its already happened with Russia and China, with China needing to bolster its claim over Taiwan.

 Orlanth wrote:

Which is fething odd as they are hardly WW2 victors.

WWII ended in 1945.

 Orlanth wrote:

No matty, this issue isn't a joke.

I disagree.

 purplefood wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

As is already happening in western Scotland, English residents will have the heat turned up to get them to leave by a rise of nationalism. Some English are already being forced out of certain areas.

Sorry, what?

Would you care to back up this statement with anything?

I haven't heard of this happening either...

Try Glasgow. English residents don't get voting slips and get discriminated against by local authorities. Got a dispute over council tax that needs sorting.
If you have an English accent, they wont listen. People who support the resident are told its in their interest to remain quiet. I personally know cases of this.

Its not pitchforks and flaming torches. Though something similar to that might happen in some parts of Scotland after independence.
Stories like this rarely hit the press, probably wouldn't be allowed to reach print anyway. And saying help I'm English living in Glasgow and the council are not listening wont help matter either. How do you think the authorities react to stuff like that, sorry we will get our procedure right next time, or a heavy increase in administrative errors.

I know a case still being hammered in the sherrifs court two years after he categorically proved he wowed a Scottish council no money. they would make a nasty andministrative error monerth after month and get nasty and officiaous about it. They didn't feth up anyone else housing benefit in that street, but then they were Scottish.

Yes thats 'hearsay', but I heard it say quite a lot.


Now on the other hand I have equally English family in Aberdeen, no problems at all. Not one. Its the East-West divide in Scotland that is growing embittered and vocal as this referendum looms.

Sorry it might not be what you want to hear but in certain parts of Scotland there is a xenophobic hatred of the English and it extends deep into local government and can make peoples lives unlivable though heavily repetetive 'errors' like lost forms and misread procedures backed up with court orders or enforcement.

Again no source

And to be honest having an English accent is fine if you stay out of certain areas, like most cities there's areas non-locals just don't go into

 mattyrm wrote:

Do you really think "being a big player" actually matters to you as an individual?

I can't hit "exalt" enough.

 Grey Templar wrote:
No, it doesn't matter to me or anyone else on a personal level. But it will matter to those in politics.

No it won't. We do what you lot want, nothing more and nothing less.

Stop pawning off your beliefs and voting habits on us.

I am aware that their is an irrational hate of the English by the Scottish, but it works the other way too.

I find it hard to believe that an educated individual would behave in such a way, normally it's just wee neds that act like that.

You are probably right, although I doubt it's a rampant as you make out. Wonder if any of the dakka servicemen have had problems in the West while on leave/break?

 mattyrm wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Frankly, I think being on the security council is the only thing keeping the UK relevant on the world stage. Their role as a financial capital is getting eroded year by year and they haven't been a major military power for the better half of a century.

On the plus side, direct order Forge World products will become cheaper as the Pound weakens

Britain hasnt been a major power for 50 years, and never will be again.. but so what? Why should that bother anyone? And how does one affect the other?

When I was in CA in 2009, I used to get $500 out of the ATM and it cost me £230. Now it costs me £320, was Britain a major military power in 2009 and the currency has devalued because now in 2012 we are puny and don't matter on the world stage?

Also, who gives a gak anyway? Some (Republicans) Americans think everyone else in the world has a hard on to have big tanks, when lets be honest, it has feth all to do with anything. The best ten places to live in the world are little countries like Norway and Denmark. Does having the biggest military really matter to a starving mother in the bronx who can't feed her fething kids?

Nationalism and Patriotism has always been ridiculous because you live your life out utterly unaffected by these things, you have a nice family or a gak family, you have a good job or a gak job, what has that got to do with being a citizen of a nation that has the most fighter planes?

Ill put it in laymans terms, If I live in somewhere famously less hard working... say Belgium, and I earn $250,000 a year and live with a beauty queen, my life will be way better than an American who works 50 hours a week for $35,000 a year and has an obese missus with a cleft pallete...

Do you really think "being a big player" actually matters to you as an individual?

Awesome post matty... exalted...

Back on topic... wouldn't a Scotland Independence eventually "weaken" all of UK?

Particularly... what of the Pound? Is Scotland going to continue using the Pound? Euro? Their own?

From little that I know... I'd still say it'd be a mistake for this to happen... but, don't mind me... I'm just a ignorant 'murrican.

 Orlanth wrote:

No matty, this issue isn't a joke.

lol, what a load of gak.

 whembly wrote:

Awesome post matty... exalted...

Back on topic... wouldn't a Scotland Independence eventually "weaken" all of UK?

Particularly... what of the Pound? Is Scotland going to continue using the Pound? Euro? Their own?

From little that I know... I'd still say it'd be a mistake for this to happen... but, don't mind me... I'm just a ignorant 'murrican.

As I said, I dont think it will be a big deal, there are doomsayers all over the internet as always, but really, Scotland only make up a tiny part of the UK. England will still work If Scotland goes off on its own.

I really dont see anything making that big a difference, as always, the world will keep turning.

Logic tells me that England would have more cash if Scotland went solo. There are figures going all over the place so you never know who to believe, Salmond says Scotland will have loads of cash if they go solo, the Daily Mail says Scotlands tax and oil revenue is 9 billion but they spend 30, no doubt they are full of gak too.

I would like to see someone reputable (The Economist) write an article in laymans terms with income and outgoings right there in black and white, because I suspect both sides are juking the stats to their own advantage.

But common dog, which rarely lets be down, tells me that considering most of the UK, certainly just as productive as Scotland areas such as Yorkshire for farming and brewing and such, make a loss, and the South keeps us afloat. Ergo, I can't see Scotland being super wealthy and awesome no matter what they say.

And Ill repeat, im sure stay or go, it will make feth all difference to the average Englishman.. so I don't care either way. But as a Tory, I can see the advantage if Scotland feths off.. because clearly England is more right wing, and Im im pretty right wing, so If Salmond and his mates are loony lefties, I'm starting to think id be happier if they went it solo.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Palindrome wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:

No matty, this issue isn't a joke.

lol, what a load of gak.

Yeah I really think Orlanth is one of the doomsayers I was talking about. I honestly cant see how so little an issue could cause such a chain of events.

If Britain is suddenly England, its just Britain minus 5 million, why would that cause England to suddenly become Luxembourg?

And more importantly, what's wrong with Luxembourg? I might like it there!

 mattyrm wrote:

Logic tells me that England would have more cash if Scotland went solo. There are figures going all over the place so you never know who to believe, Salmond says Scotland will have loads of cash if they go solo, the Daily Mail says Scotlands tax and oil revenue is 9 billion but they spend 30, no doubt they are full of gak too.

There was a programme on radio 4 a couple of months ago which said that an independent Scotland's finances would be about the same as they are now. There is no way that Scotland's economy is running at a £21 billion deficit. the Daily Fail is up to its usual poorly researched tricks.

I guess what I'm driving at is that if Scotland secedes from the the Union, what's going to stop the rest of the states from doing the same thing?

That's like if New Hampshire secede from the US. While, it won't be "damaging" per se... but what's going to stop Texas or California from going independent? They're their own country practically and THAT be quite damaging to the Union.

"Can't we all just get along??"