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Is there any way these things can be made useful?

Glue some guns on them and call them oblits?

Super melee lord, max mutilators, in a Land Raider...I think it's as good as it gets.

Only problem? There are other options to do the same thing and probably do way more.

Edit:

 Baldsmug wrote:
Glue some guns on them and call them oblits?

We have a winner.

 Kasrkin52 wrote:
Is there any way these things can be made useful?

glue some coins under the base so they function as better paperweights.


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 Kasrkin52 wrote:
Is there any way these things can be made useful?

wait for the 7th edition codex to come out where they revamp the rules so they are actually good.


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 Kasrkin52 wrote:
Is there any way these things can be made useful?

put them next to your mandrakes so they can have a tea party

Woah... I thought they were good units.

They might be viable if you could take a unit size of 5 or 6. At max 3 they're just too fragile/slow/overpriced. Slow and Purposeful on an assault unit sucks, especially when your only transport option is an overpriced LR.

TERRIBLE.

With that out of the way, er, try them, er uh with,... um.
I don't have a clue. These guys are just bad. The price is just so high for no real reason. Terminators fill this role about 30 times better for a much lower price. And can shoot.

I would suggest that if you got these as a gift, take them back to the store and get ANYTHING else in the codex.

They are almost comically bad, yes. Probably the low point of the new units in the book, right there with Warp Talons.

If you're dead set on using them, marking them Nurgle so they can avoid insta-death and having them escort Typhus may be an option. You can put him in front and shift wounds his FNP fails at to them, one model at a time, to keep everyone alive.

"shift wounds his FNP fails at"? I'm not sure what this is intended to mean, but it sounds like a rules error.

 Mannahnin wrote:
They might be viable if you could take a unit size of 5 or 6. At max 3 they're just too fragile/slow/overpriced. Slow and Purposeful on an assault unit sucks, especially when your only transport option is an overpriced LR.

and being breakable. for 55 points a model they should at least be ld 10 and stuborn.


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Puscifer wrote:
Woah... I thought they were good units.

hopefully you didnt run out and buy 9 in a rush...


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 Sephyr wrote:

They are almost comically bad, yes. Probably the low point of the new units in the book, right there with Warp Talons.

If you're dead set on using them, marking them Nurgle so they can avoid insta-death and having them escort Typhus may be an option. You can put him in front and shift wounds his FNP fails at to them, one model at a time, to keep everyone alive.

first, warp talons are bad, but better than mutilators. Night and day. I could see actually using warp talons once in a blue moon.

sounds like cheating to me

I'm thinking if you already picked up the models try using them as a single model unit hiding it behind a rhino. 1 mok can add a good amount of combat resolution when something is already being charged by another unit. That being said I wouldn't buy any myself.

 Sephyr wrote:
You can put him in front and shift wounds his FNP fails at to them, one model at a time, to keep everyone alive.

Not legal. He can't take saves for the rest of the squad and then pass on unsaved wounds. If he takes the save, he takes the wound.

I just had a steam conversation about this:

Try feeding them TH&SS. With a healthy diet they might be able to grow them eventually.
Wait, but that would be double TH or double SS?
Re-rollable 3+ Invul? plus MoT? GAK! that would be Fething awesome!

 Kasrkin52 wrote:
Is there any way these things can be made useful?

Make them out of plastic?

 Mannahnin wrote:
"shift wounds his FNP fails at"? I'm not sure what this is intended to mean, but it sounds like a rules error.

I think he means that you can put typhus in the front and "look out sir" for every wound he gets with all mutilators one at the time.

I have a box of them, so I'm going to give them a shot.

If they don't work out, they'll just be counts as Oblits.

shogun wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
"shift wounds his FNP fails at"? I'm not sure what this is intended to mean, but it sounds like a rules error.

I think he means that you can put typhus in the front and "look out sir" for every wound he gets with all mutilators one at the time.

you can shift wounds from typhus, but only before he tries his FNP. after FNP he has to keep them.


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 schadenfreude wrote:
I'm thinking if you already picked up the models try using them as a single model unit hiding it behind a rhino. 1 mok can add a good amount of combat resolution when something is already being charged by another unit. That being said I wouldn't buy any myself.

eats up elite slots, but I guess it might work. They had so much potential but just fall flat, really flat.

Based on how i've used soladins and lone wolves in the past I can see a use for a 61 point disruption unit. but that is pretty much it I think.

there biggest problem is such small units 3 men aint enough especially as you can't give them FNP so AP2 will just rip em apart however if i was going to run em id try 2 or even 3 units of 3 and deep strike em obviously this is costly 450+pts for 9 and they have to endure a turn of shooting with adequate support 6 of em could easily crack a good amount of skulls but terminators do the same for less all i can say is give em a whirl

Theyre usefull in making possessed look efficient. Maybe that was the plan all along?

I'm thinking one or two Tzeentched or Nurgled is the way to go. DS them and use them as a Heavy Support hunter/Rear Objective denier. They are one of the few DSing units in the Dex so their is definitely room for them in the right army, plus they are flexible enough to challenge Long Fangs and Psyfleman alike, which is one clear advantage over other units that perform a similar role. SNP is unfortunate, but with good placement you should be fine. Plus, especially if you only bring one, you can get real brave with your DS placement, as a bad role isn't as big of an investment risk.




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Also, one clear advantage they have over Terms is they are much cheaper on a points per wound basis. 22 to 30 points per wound, with the CC flexibility, the fact they bring their special CC weapons in pairs and therefore always get the extra attack (rare for things like chainfists), are all pretty solid things. Plus, really all the Marks have potential on them, though the affermentioned Tzeentch and Nrugle stand out because they are likely to get shot, a lot. Still, SNP is really the Achilles heel. I would play a few games with just one before completely writing them off though.

EDIT Again: I'm still thinking of 5th edition SNP. 6th edition simply is you can't run, or sweep (which no Term can)...that's...really not that big of a deal. You should be deploying in assault range anyway...

Wait, I thought that mutilators were somewhat decent?
I had a plan of sticking them in a LR with a dual LC terminator lord with MoN. I would also give the Mutilators MoN, so they got T5 and therefore immune to ID from str 8-9 hits, making their two wound go a much longer way. The reason why I wanted to do this is because they are always armed right for the job. The terminators can specialize against taking out either 3+ saves and strike at int 4 or specialize in killing 2+ saves and always hit at int 1. Then again, with MoN, the Mutilators become pretty expensive at 61 points per dude. That's almost 2 regular terminators with no upgrades, and they still only hit as hard as one dude.

If you just want a meatshield spawn are much better. If you want an assault unit terminators or bikers are much better.

These guys really have no role being too expensive and too limited.

The disruption idea is the only decent one I can think of. They can interrupt heavy weapon units for a turn, leaving any other big targets in your force untouched. If that unit doesn't take them down they'll get charged and they rarely have the kind of close combat punch to survive that, even against one model.

Pros:
This is quite cheap, even with 2 models it's cheaper than your average Vanguard squad.
2+ save and 2 wounds makes them slightly more durable against certain targets (say, all missile launcher Long Fangs which are of course AP3).

Cons:
You'd have to Deep Strike, so timing isn't guaranteed.
Against any targets with AP2 weaponry, they're going to easily get shot down in that one turn.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Also, one clear advantage they have over Terms is they are much cheaper on a points per wound basis. 22 to 30 points per wound, with the CC flexibility, the fact they bring their special CC weapons in pairs and therefore always get the extra attack (rare for things like chainfists), are all pretty solid things. Plus, really all the Marks have potential on them, though the affermentioned Tzeentch and Nrugle stand out because they are likely to get shot, a lot. Still, SNP is really the Achilles heel. I would play a few games with just one before completely writing them off though.

EDIT Again: I'm still thinking of 5th edition SNP. 6th edition simply is you can't run, or sweep (which no Term can)...that's...really not that big of a deal. You should be deploying in assault range anyway...

Not being able to run in a unit that can't take a dedicate LR is a bit of a bummer, especially if their Deep Strike scatters off-target; if they could run, you could at least adjust the arrival position a bit in the shooting phase to get cover or prepare a good charge.

And thy may have more wounds-per-point than terminators, but termis also get twin-linked bolters, cheap combis, cand dedicate a LR to help unclog your Heavy Support section and have better LD, not to mention a higher unit size.

Termites are 31 points a wound
mutilators are 27.5 points a wound

Termites are 15.5 points per attack
Mutilators are 18.3 points per attack

Mutilators dont need weapons, but they cant shoot either. The potential ID and the lack of a unit champion are both surely felt.

They should either have a 4+ invul or 3 attacks and wounds per base to get anywhere near competitive. Also their unit size should be 5 and they should be fearless.

 Exergy wrote:
Termites are 31 points a wound
mutilators are 27.5 points a wound

Termites are 15.5 points per attack
Mutilators are 18.3 points per attack

Mutilators dont need weapons, but they cant shoot either. The potential ID and the lack of a unit champion are both surely felt.

They should either have a 4+ invul or 3 attacks and wounds per base to get anywhere near competitive. Also their unit size should be 5 and they should be fearless.

Right. even with the slight edge they have over terminators in PPW they still have to worry about S8 plus weapons, where one wound terminators don't really care. For the cost of an elite slot I can't really see fielding a lone mutilator, even as a distraction unit. Not when I can drop 3 terminators with combi-melta or combi-plasma for not too many more points.

Granted if you have a free slot and a spare 50ish points a single mutlitator might accomplish something deepstriking in near your opponent. Unfortunately he won't be any threat to armor as they can just drive away from him. He might be able to catch a heavy weapons squad, but not if they run, since he can't. So even in that role he is mostly avoidable.

Still, he could prove a minor irritant and actually draw a round of shooting or an assault away from something more important.

They should either have a 4+ invul or 3 attacks and wounds per base to get anywhere near competitive. Also their unit size should be 5 and they should be fearless.

They can have a 4+ Invuln, with MoT, and don't they take their specialist weapons in pairs, giving them +1 attack (might be wrong on that)?

Granted if you have a free slot and a spare 50ish points a single mutlitator might accomplish something deepstriking in near your opponent. Unfortunately he won't be any threat to armor as they can just drive away from him. He might be able to catch a heavy weapons squad, but not if they run, since he can't. So even in that role he is mostly avoidable.

Many builds are filling Elite last (ie not at all), and if you're getting a Heavy Weapon squad to run with a 55(+mark) unit...you're winning Charlie Sheen style.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

They should either have a 4+ invul or 3 attacks and wounds per base to get anywhere near competitive. Also their unit size should be 5 and they should be fearless.

They can have a 4+ Invuln, with MoT, and don't they take their specialist weapons in pairs, giving them +1 attack (might be wrong on that)?

they can, but to be playable they should be able to get a 3++.
as is they are just terminators with 2 wounds and morphable weapons in small packages.

paladins are not comparable as they can shoot(rather well actually) have WS5 a better invuln and ID. They have access to really cheap weapons as well, have psykic powers and have ATSKNF. You can also take them in a useful sized unit.

Deepstriking into your opponent's backline to cause max disruption seems the best use of them to me - against most opponents they're likely to have some suitable targets.

Hmm, deepstriking mutilators _and_ obliterators could be even more amusing - but sadly also very dice-dependent...