Troll Forged Kickstarter - Assimilation Alien Host - Dreadnought masters page 26

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**RiTides**

Ed has begun to make metal masters of the 70% size dreadnought, pics in the latest update! (Update #234... the Trollforged crew is nothing if not diligent about updating

)

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/131182444/assimilation-alien-host/posts/1109539

**Malika2**

Awesome! By the way, are there some clearer pics to see how Ed managed to clean up that Dreadnought?

**RiTides**

I'm curious on that too, Malika (he had texted me a pic but nothing came through, darn phone... just changed it so hopefully won't have that happen again

). I'll see if I can find out more from him on what he did to them. He did mention that, from having gotten both, he felt these prints were better than Shapeways FUD. I have found the supports difficult to remove and still get a clean finish on mine, but he seems to have done this very well (but then again, he is much more experienced at all of this!).

**Malika2**

Hmm, so printing FUD and having Ed clean that up still isn't the solution? I was kinda hoping for that since it could greatly diminish production costs if the print could be a lot cheaper. Oh well...

**RiTides**

Well he has definitely done that - however, there is another smaller printing service that several folks have used on here which I can point you to, which I think would give you better results for not much more (just PM me if interested!).

**Malika2**

PM sent!

**RiTides**

I think it's OK for me to post this here, since some backers don't want to see too many dreadnought updates so it's likely Philip won't be posting it.

David did some incredible work on the drill and saw arms, and I've printed them and will be sending them to Ed tomorrow for cleanup and casting!

The saw arm is actually one of the base arms so he'll need to make a lot of them (and it's in 3 pieces). But man, is that drill awesome!! It's a single piece, and I totally love it

One informal question from me... the more I think about the remaining casting schedule, the more I feel like just this one size of the dreadnought is enough... would like to hear folks thoughts (just for myself) on whether they really feel like a bigger size is required too, or if this one size would be enough to satisfy folks. Honestly, this is the size everyone thought it would be anyway, I think (or this might even be a bit bigger than that

) and so in my personal opinion, it'd be reasonable to just focus on getting the one size done, along with the aliens he's already sculpted cast. He's further along on sculpting than casting, I think, and if it's not needed it doesn't make sense to add something extraneous to the queue.

**BobtheInquisitor**

It all depends on the final prices. Bigger can be better if there isn't too much difference in cost. And I have to wait for retail since I cashed out my pledge...sort of. Still waiting on a power armored alien hunter, apparently.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

I really want the Dreadnaught in the 'larger' size since that's what I backed for so as long as that's the one picked I'd be happy

but there were also a significant number of backers who wanted the 70% version that came up as a possibility from what I remember

so I guess Ed needs to decide if the extra work/cash to make it happen is worth the good press and possible extra sales

**RiTides**

Yeah, he is planning to make both, I was just wondering for myself

. Sound like both is the way to go!

**Azazelx**

RiTides wrote:

One informal question from me... the more I think about the remaining casting schedule, the more I feel like just this one size of the dreadnought is enough... would like to hear folks thoughts (just for myself) on whether they really feel like a bigger size is required too, or if this one size would be enough to satisfy folks. Honestly, this is the size everyone thought it would be anyway, I think (or this might even be a bit bigger than that ) and so in my personal opinion, it'd be reasonable to just focus on getting the one size done, along with the aliens he's already sculpted cast. He's further along on sculpting than casting, I think, and if it's not needed it doesn't make sense to add something extraneous to the queue.

I don't think it's kosher to be changing the size/removing the original larger one this late in the game, with a project that's so very overdue, when a certain thing was promised. And I'm only interested in the smaller one myself. No. It's not reasonable at all.

**RiTides**

Azazelx wrote:
I don't think it's kosher to be changing the size/removing the original larger one this late in the game, with a project that's so very overdue, when a certain thing was promised.

Is the larger one really the "original", though? Here's the pic I see on the KS page:

That pic matches up much better with the 70% size of the digital sculpt, I think, rather than a 100% size printout, although of course it depends on where exactly that person figure is standing.

This is totally just my opinion, nothing to do with Ed or Philip or even David. I just feel like, with all that is left to be done, doing two copies of the dreadnought seems like too much. Ed's a trooper, but I haven't yet seen pics of resin of any of the dread parts, and of course there's a lot of aliens left to cast (not sculpt). Casting is the real bottleneck here, and there are a lot of parts to the dreadnought. Also, the two different sizes was something that came out of discussions when David originally printed a test of his digital sculpt. Honestly, I think the full size is much too large, bigger than the art here shows. Since this is not something that Ed sculpted, it's up to the sculptor's interpretation of this art.

I think the size I printed this at is more true to the art than the digital sculpt was scaled to, and is what everyone was expecting - AKA dreadnought sized, and actually already a bit bigger than that!

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

What I was expecting was bigger than a standard dreadnaught which is fine as it's intended to contain the static remains of a marine (with bits of the arms and legs removed)

the same problem as a lot of 28 'scale' vehicles, they're basically shrunk to fit on a gaming table

what I prefer is stuff that actually looks like a mini could fit inside

the beauty of this is it is scaled to look as if it could actually have a living person sitting in the body, that's why I wanted it as soon as I saw the art, there's really not a lot of stuff scaled like this (with the exception of Dreamforge's stuff).

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

an important bit from the comments

David Lee Seymour about 14 hours ago

Personally I have to AGREE with Tides and Steve. I may have been a bit overzealous in my personal interpretation of the dreadnought model, but the FACTS ARE that what is currently being referred to as the 70% model is LARGER than the official description of the model on the original model scaling page ( roughly 60mm ) and that the concept art itself shows a model slightly larger than 65mm ( being a 28mm man for scale ).
Yes, the concept in my head was a larger 2 man tank and that's what I ended up with as an artist creating through my own mind's eye, but the FACTS remain:
1) a "70%" model is roughly 5mm larger than the concept art.
2) the original scale listing for the dreadnought is "60mm"
3) I volunteered to make this sculpt happen A YEAR AND A HALF AFTER the kickstarter ended... NO ONE backed a 93mm behemoth.
Now, Personally I want the big one. That's how I envisioned it. But how long is that going to take? Are you willing to wait for its place in the queue? I'm putting my heart into this sculpt and all the time I can spare to get it done. Sure I'm proud of it, but I cannot expect Ed to cast something so large simply because I sculpted it way bigger than it was meant to be. That much raw material for the applied KS pricing toward the original size would break Trollforged Miniatures....that's fact #4.
The problem here isn't "oh look, they're shrinking it on us" it's that in my overzealousness I sculpted it too damned big. And you can quote me on that because I AM THE SCULPTOR.
I would LOVE to see it cast at 93mm some time post-ks, but for the sake of time and Trollforged Miniatures PLEASE, stop and think about the facts here.

up til now I thought of the 70% one being smaller than the illustration,

but from what the sculptor says it's the one that fits with the art and the 100% one is significantly larger

so I'm happy with the 70% version (as I now realise that fits what I originally pledged for) if that helps out.

**RiTides**

That's great Orlando, thanks for posting your thoughts! I always take your opinion strongly on Kickstarters as you follow them closely and stay engaged, so I really appreciate seeing your take.

**Azazelx**

You'd need the patience of a saint to follow something like this closely or to stay engaged with it. I mostly forget that it exists, and that's probably a good thing. Here's to wondering if it'll be finished by Christmas '15!

**RiTides**

Yeah, that's am open question Azazel :-/ which is why I suggested streamlining this part - there is so much left to cast.

**Azazelx**

The problem is that once you start to promise something, then the cat is out of the bag/Pandora's box is opened. It's a bit hard to turn around and say "you know, actually, I don't want to offer them in two sizes after all - sorry!" Let's not forget that for all the trials and tribulations and good intentions, this thing is almost 2 years late now, with no sign of actually completing this year - it's just plodding along with sub-par sculpts at an incredibly slow rate. So really, let's not forget that Ed owes us, not the other way around. It's great that he wants understanding, etc, but it's not like he's offering refunds - and for many of us, the point of the project is on hold or abandoned at this point in time so the eventual figures are likely to get chucked in a box...

**Fenriswulf**

Edit: Forget it. I am going to have my pledge up for sale via their site. $120 pledge, which was for Swarm plus postage. I'll be looking to deal with someone directly via paypal for this, and can absolutely guarantee my reputation as a trader and honest dealer. If anyone is interested, feel free to snap it up when it is posted up there.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Azazelx wrote:
The problem is that once you start to promise something, then the cat is out of the bag/Pandora's box is opened. It's a bit hard to turn around and say "you know, actually, I don't want to offer them in two sizes after all - sorry!" Let's not forget that for all the trials and tribulations and good intentions, this thing is almost 2 years late now, with no sign of actually completing this year - it's just plodding along with sub-par sculpts at an incredibly slow rate. So really, let's not forget that Ed owes us, not the other way around. It's great that he wants understanding, etc, but it's not like he's offering refunds - and for many of us, the point of the project is on hold or abandoned at this point in time so the eventual figures are likely to get chucked in a box...

I'd take your minis if you don't want them, but I'm still waiting on my own pledge. The only mini my pledge is waiting on is the power armored Alien Hunter, which I am pretty sure was outsourced and not handled by Ed at all. There's a bit of a Mikh situation going on, not that Ed is a much faster sculptor than Jodie. I just wish he would crack down on the subcontractors and finish up the big monsters for his store.

Which sculpts do you consider subpar?

**Malika2**

I'm rather curious about the power armoured Alien Hunter as well. Mostly to see if it would be workable as a proxy for the 'Legionary', a concept Philip has been working on with some of us for a while now.

**Azazelx**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:

I'd take your minis if you don't want them, but I'm still waiting on my own pledge. The only mini my pledge is waiting on is the power armored Alien Hunter, which I am pretty sure was outsourced and not handled by Ed at all. There's a bit of a Mikh situation going on, not that Ed is a much faster sculptor than Jodie. I just wish he would crack down on the subcontractors and finish up the big monsters for his store.

Which sculpts do you consider subpar?

Pretty much everything that's bipedal, except for the dread. The worms and larger wormish things all look decent, but the bipedal stuff is a poor translation of Des Hanley's excellent art. Mine is Queen Level ($200)

**DaveC**

I think at this point once the Dread is ready I'm going to ask Ed/Philip if I can cash out my Queen pledge for 6 Dreads and call it a day they can keep the extra $50 worth as 6 Dreads is more than I need and the remaining money is incentive for them to do it plus I just want and end to it now no interest in any of the aliens anymore and the round lip bases aren't near started yet.

**Commander Cain**

DaveC wrote:
I think at this point once the Dread is ready I'm going to ask Ed/Philip if I can cash out my Queen pledge for 6 Dreads and call it a day they can keep the extra $50 worth as 6 Dreads is more than I need and the remaining money is incentive for them to do it plus I just want and end to it now no interest in any of the aliens anymore and the round lip bases aren't near started yet.

I'll probably do much the same, that way I have some nice models and Ed will have one less backer breathing down his neck!

**RiTides**

That's basically what I did previously, taking the models that were done a year ago so I could use them in the AdeptiCon team tourney. Ed and Philip were really accommodating about it (you'd be talking mainly to Philip, who generates the order slips for Ed). I think it does help to take slightly less if doing full swaps, since you're only supposed to swap out half of the items... this is what I did, since I honestly didn't need any more of those worm models, I have so many as it is! (I was probably one of the highest pledges in the campaign, I really went all-in).

I actually bought out someone's pledge later on as well, and haven't redeemed that one yet - planning to get a few each of Drones, Cannon Drones, Carnage Hounds, Hounds, and Dreadnoughts. All of those are sculpted except the Dreadnought arms, so I am hoping it might all be ready this summer.

David has been sending Philip/Ed/myself some WIPs of the arms he's working on, and he's getting pretty close to having the flamer finished. I'm not sure how many that leaves to go, although if you just want the base dreadnought without the arm add-on pack, Ed has the masters for those arms already. I know he's been snowed under with a big job deadline, since he's had to take on other work to keep the foundry running, but I am really hopeful that after that is out the door he can come down hard on casting the things he's already gotten sculpted, along with the dreadnought.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Azazelx wrote:
BobtheInquisitor wrote:

I'd take your minis if you don't want them, but I'm still waiting on my own pledge. The only mini my pledge is waiting on is the power armored Alien Hunter, which I am pretty sure was outsourced and not handled by Ed at all. There's a bit of a Mikh situation going on, not that Ed is a much faster sculptor than Jodie. I just wish he would crack down on the subcontractors and finish up the big monsters for his store.

Which sculpts do you consider subpar?

Pretty much everything that's bipedal, except for the dread. The worms and larger wormish things all look decent, but the bipedal stuff is a poor translation of Des Hanley's excellent art. Mine is Queen Level ($200)

I pretty much agree with you, excepting the stealth adult swarm warriors, or whatever the not-genestealers are called. I traded all of my other bipedal creatures for more worms or alien hunters, which work well enough as alien bounty hunters for me to enjoy them on a "kill crites" level. I'm actually surprised at how bad the other swarm adults turned out.

I feel for you on that Queen level. Even ignoring the long wait, that many worms, grubs, hounds and fiends will take forever to clean, assemble and paint. Did you have a project in mind when you pledged?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

DaveC wrote:
I think at this point once the Dread is ready I'm going to ask Ed/Philip if I can cash out my Queen pledge for 6 Dreads and call it a day they can keep the extra $50 worth as 6 Dreads is more than I need and the remaining money is incentive for them to do it plus I just want and end to it now no interest in any of the aliens anymore and the round lip bases aren't near started yet.

Why not get grubs or hounds with the remainder of the cash and use them for trade fodder?

**DaveC**

At this stage I'm prepared to write off the $50 it was paid 2.5 years ago it's gone forgotten about I'd only be taking the extras for the sake of it I don't want them so Ed can have the $50 worth to cover shipping and what ever plus it's give and take Queen level allows $100 of swap outs I'd like a full swap out so I'm not asking for full value on it.

**BobtheInquisitor**

You guys make me feel selfish for my swaps. Most of my swaps were a result of finally seeing the sculpts, but I definitely wanted my money's worth. They can keep the interest, though.

**RiTides**

Yeah, this was an early Kickstarter and it's pretty clear Ed overpromised, and has had to work hard to even deliver at the pace he has. This is also why I was willing to swap for less (and why I'm making the masters for the dreadnought, etc), but I totally understand someone wanting the full value of their pledge and am definitely not suggesting you do otherwise unless (like myself previously / DaveC) you just don't want/need more of the models.

On the painting / cleaning front, I did paint 150 grubs

along with some of the bigger worms (1 Fiend, 2 Wyrms, 3 LE Grubs, and a few from other ranges). It was a ton of work, but at that scale, I didn't feel the need to try to remove mold lines (and I feel they're not very noticeable on the grubs, especially in quantity). I would love to add some more big critters to my swarm, though, which is why I can't wait to see casts of the Cannon Drone and Carnage Hound (which are fully sculpted) and the Drone (which I don't think Ed was quite finished with previously, but the WIPs looked great).

**BobtheInquisitor**

I also had a much smaller pledge, so I am not reall y getting anywhere near as many models as most of you seem to be.