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Do Skyshields give a 4++ save?

 samuele999 wrote:
6. I like paladins. Yes paladins - 1 paladins with a nemisis warding stave can take all the overwatch of a flamer squad and still survive, if they have feel no pain. on average they will hit 18 times and wound 9. he has two wounds and a 2+ inv! This is because over-watch is part of the assault phase. ( i hope this is correct or am i being stupid?

Warding Staves give a 2+ versus wounds caused in close combat. Overwatch is not wounds caused in close combat (yes, it's in the assault phase but if you've declared a charge you cannot be in close combat).

Doesn't work

An'arkh'ad'nron wrote:
Do Skyshields give a 4++ save?

Yes 4+ invul save if the sides are up.

pepe5454 wrote:

An'arkh'ad'nron wrote:
Do Skyshields give a 4++ save?

Yes 4+ invul save if the sides are up.

Note its against shooting only.

I heavily agree samuele999 and with those suggesting gk ss and quisi, if he cant ds next to you, and they deepstrike in a circle, plasma cannon the freakin hell out of them, what that,s 9x 3 plasma cannon wounds, thats one unit of flmaers eeradicated. then the purifiers shooting at the other flamer squad, with the help of the rest of your other units that's 18 of 27 flamers killed, and now he has just 9 left. the problem is that he has 3 squads, 1 squad no problem.

Just tarpit the upper level so you cant get assault, the only issue would be if they are underneath it but then they cant shoot you, just concentrate fire on the rest of their army. Its mainly to protect my troops and devi's and thunderfires for the first turn or two, hopefully by them i would have inflicted enough wounds to kill off enough of their flamers to be able to spread my troops out. Only thing that worries me in CC would be the DP's and I plan on killing them with hyperios and storm raven to ground them then 8 krak missiles to take em out

pepe5454 wrote:

 samuele999 wrote:

8 I like using combat squads, it is a good idea, but when victory points are so crucial in 6th edition, they are very easy to give away.

I thought this edition most of the missions were control points and only 1 in 6 was kill points. And I still think a sky shield landing pad could possibly mess up his day.

I think he's talking about secondary objectives and how small units might make you more vulnerable to losing First Blood.

Yes, combat squads are a nightmare for first blood!

For first blood I would be more worried about light vehicles but ya I see the point there it's one reason I don't use truks with my orks any more.

Yeah they also are suffering under 6th edition.

Dezstiny wrote:
I heavily agree samuele999 and with those suggesting gk ss and quisi, if he cant ds next to you, and they deepstrike in a circle, plasma cannon the freakin hell out of them, what that,s 9x 3 plasma cannon wounds, thats one unit of flmaers eeradicated. then the purifiers shooting at the other flamer squad, with the help of the rest of your other units that's 18 of 27 flamers killed, and now he has just 9 left. the problem is that he has 3 squads, 1 squad no problem.

Where do you buy these blessed plasma cannons that always hit, always wound, and always make the enemy fail their save? I could use a squad of those!

You really don't need to ally in grey knights to beat the flamer/screamer combo. There are plenty of usefull things in the blood angel's codex that can help you out. One of the most important things though is how you deploy your army.

A few things that will help

1.) Corbula, seriously a 2+ feel no pain, use his re-roll and he can assault a unit of flamers by himself and not take a wound usually.

2.) Thunderhammer stormshield terminators, back up by a priest, a 3+ followed by a 5+ means you lose, on average 2 terminators to a flamer overwatch.

3.) Your deployment. When putting your units on the table you need to maximize your coherency and put them vertical not horizontal on the table. Remember you can only kill what your guns have range to so if your friend can only get 3 guys under his templates on the drop then he can only kill 3 guys.

4.) Against daemons combat squads are your friends.

5.) Storm Ravens are awesome for area denial. Instead of trying to guarantee yourself some shots use the to physically block off part of the table so that your opponent cannot jump in and flame you. Also use them to make it so that screamers have to make a long charge against you.

Warmaster wrote:




3.) Your deployment. When putting your units on the table you need to maximize your coherency and put them vertical not horizontal on the table. Remember you can only kill what your guns have range to so if your friend can only get 3 guys under his templates on the drop then he can only kill 3 guys.

If he can only get 3 guys under one template but he has 5 guys there with templates I am pretty sure he can kill up to 15 even if all 5 templates are hitting the same 3 guys. Unless the faq'd that and I didn't catch it.

pepe5454 wrote:

Warmaster wrote:




3.) Your deployment. When putting your units on the table you need to maximize your coherency and put them vertical not horizontal on the table. Remember you can only kill what your guns have range to so if your friend can only get 3 guys under his templates on the drop then he can only kill 3 guys.

If he can only get 3 guys under one template but he has 5 guys there with templates I am pretty sure he can kill up to 15 even if all 5 templates are hitting the same 3 guys. Unless the faq'd that and I didn't catch it.

Pretty sure this is right, from what I was re-reading in the BGB.

Mmm Barbeque

I agree with the Aussie, you need more boots on the ground.

I know that this is not the best combo, but consider necrons. Perhaps 1 Destroyer Lord, 5x Warriors, 6x Wraiths (with some whip coils) and 1 annihilation barge (if you've got spare points). Wraiths really don't care about flamers or screamers all that much. Even if they were to charge a unit of 9 flamers, overwatch would only average 14 hits, 7 wounds, 2 failed invuln's, 1 dead wraith.

Thanks for the necron point, but unfortunately i can't afford a new army and am unwilling to give up on my beloved ba.
I have 10 terminators with storm shields, but they die to easily - I'm very good at rolling 1's.
The template point is a very good point!
So, if he only gets 3 under his template, at max range, can he only kill 3. Basically if i had a squad of marines and he had flamers in front of them, and he could only reach some of them with his flame template , can he only kill the ones he can reach?

 samuele999 wrote:
Thanks for the necron point, but unfortunately i can't afford a new army and am unwilling to give up on my beloved ba.
I have 10 terminators with storm shields, but they die to easily - I'm very good at rolling 1's.
The template point is a very good point!
So, if he only gets 3 under his template, at max range, can he only kill 3. Basically if i had a squad of marines and he had flamers in front of them, and he could only reach some of them with his flame template , can he only kill the ones he can reach?

If it's just one flamer yes. but if it's a group you count the hits and wounds all at once so even if he could only reach 3 guys in a squad with the template he could deal many more wounds than that with a squad of flamers and so could wipe out the whole unit even though the others were out of range.

I thought in 6th edition you could only kill models that were in range of your weapons?
Although i don't have my rule book with me.

I dunno... What did we do in the game we played today? That seemed okay...

 samuele999 wrote:
I thought in 6th edition you could only kill models that were in range of your weapons?
Although i don't have my rule book with me.

Nope. As long as part of the unit started the shooting attack in range, the entire unit can be killed. Page 16 iirc.

rigeld2 wrote:

 samuele999 wrote:
I thought in 6th edition you could only kill models that were in range of your weapons?
Although i don't have my rule book with me.

Nope. As long as part of the unit started the shooting attack in range, the entire unit can be killed. Page 16 iirc.

Otherwise you would have a debacle with rapidfire.

What about flamer templates?

An'arkh'ad'nron wrote:
What about flamer templates?

Rigeld just answered that part, two posts up.

Daemon Flamers rule the world! I was (un)fortunate to realize the true horror of the rules update the week of release during a tournament. I came on Dakka trying to explain the carnage and of course, most didn't get it and still don't get it. O well, If you can't beat 'em...

Null zone!!! Take a vanilla librarian and cast null zone. Next you need the volume of fire to take advantage of the null zone. Thunderfire cannon!!! Make your BA the allied attachment and take 2 Thunderfire cannons. Spread those cannons out far so if he drops flamers to deal with them, then the flamers will be out of the fight for a while. More mobile volume of fire. Attack bikes!!! Those are highly mobile and can shoot up flamers.

Now deploy the librarian in an impenetrable position (at least for flamers) the Bastion. Flamers can't hurt it and you get the null zone off from it. Any flamer drop that shoots will eat a ridiculous amount of damage from thin fire cannons, coupled with null zone should drop a squad in one turn. If they drop and run add in the firepower of 6 attack bikes that dish out 18 heavy Bolter shots and you should kill them quick.

The best part about all of this is the cost. A Libby, 2 cannons and 6 attack bikes are 540pts.

Kevlar wrote:

 Seb wrote:

 Praxiss wrote:
What are Flamers?

Soudns like (i've never seen the rules) T4 Jump infantry with just a 5++ (but no armour save presumably).

Sounds like a job for a vindicator. BA Vindi are Fast so it coudl move and keep ot of range, drop a S10 pir plate of a DS squad of flamers (now that they are nicely bunched up) and they are inst-gibbed.

How are they killing vehicles with flamers?! They sound horrible!

Unless it changed, all deamons are EW, which means no insta-pop.
I have a friend using that exact tactic, with the new tzeentch disks (which are terrifingly good...) as a bonus.

A few tricks :
- You cannot be flamed if you are already in melee - that means get your melee units in melee ASAP, even if its not flamers
- Vehicules are resilient against flamers - i specificaly think about a LR, which is imprevious to flamers (beware of screamers though!). Crusader and its high volume of fire comes to mind
- As other said, a good tactic is volume of fire. Get more boots on the ground. I'd say drop the 2 SR and one of the terminator squad, get some sterguards or even a regular tac squad.
- Use wisely the first 2 turns, when your enemy is largely outnumbered (general daemon trick though)
- max out your melee squads, the OW can only kill that much MEQs. You need to get a few guys in combat just to lock down the flamers. Once that's done, they're toast.

I use PM to great effect considering their resilience. You can have similar toughness with blood priests (or whatever your chaplains/apothecary/FNP guys are called), can't you?

Vehicles resiliant vs flamers? They can kill a land raider as easily as anything else. Every other hit is an auto-glance. So they remove all your hull points rather quickly. The only thing safe from them is a zooming flyer. Land raiders are only more resiliant vs screamers, who still have a shot at penning it with a 10+ on 2d6.

Quick question from someone without a Chaos codex, but aren't the flamers S4? If so, how would they do anything to vehicles like the LR?

 whipthorn wrote:

Kevlar wrote:

 Seb wrote:

 Praxiss wrote:
What are Flamers?

Soudns like (i've never seen the rules) T4 Jump infantry with just a 5++ (but no armour save presumably).

Sounds like a job for a vindicator. BA Vindi are Fast so it coudl move and keep ot of range, drop a S10 pir plate of a DS squad of flamers (now that they are nicely bunched up) and they are inst-gibbed.

How are they killing vehicles with flamers?! They sound horrible!

Unless it changed, all deamons are EW, which means no insta-pop.
I have a friend using that exact tactic, with the new tzeentch disks (which are terrifingly good...) as a bonus.

A few tricks :
- You cannot be flamed if you are already in melee - that means get your melee units in melee ASAP, even if its not flamers
- Vehicules are resilient against flamers - i specificaly think about a LR, which is imprevious to flamers (beware of screamers though!). Crusader and its high volume of fire comes to mind
- As other said, a good tactic is volume of fire. Get more boots on the ground. I'd say drop the 2 SR and one of the terminator squad, get some sterguards or even a regular tac squad.
- Use wisely the first 2 turns, when your enemy is largely outnumbered (general daemon trick though)
- max out your melee squads, the OW can only kill that much MEQs. You need to get a few guys in combat just to lock down the flamers. Once that's done, they're toast.

I use PM to great effect considering their resilience. You can have similar toughness with blood priests (or whatever your chaplains/apothecary/FNP guys are called), can't you?

Vehicles resiliant vs flamers? They can kill a land raider as easily as anything else. Every other hit is an auto-glance. So they remove all your hull points rather quickly. The only thing safe from them is a zooming flyer. Land raiders are only more resiliant vs screamers, who still have a shot at penning it with a 10+ on 2d6.

Quick question from someone without a Chaos codex, but aren't the flamers S4? If so, how would they do anything to vehicles like the LR?

Ignore armor saves/glance on a 4+

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Quick question from someone without a Chaos codex, but aren't the flamers S4? If so, how would they do anything to vehicles like the LR?

Ignore armor saves/glance on a 4+

I suppose you could see if you could get him to let you use allies from the old Daemonhunters Codex and surprise the Flamers with the old 36"/S6/AP4/Heavy 3/Ignores Invulnerable saves psycannons, but that's a bit of a long shot.