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Take away dipping and btp wouldn't be in business, they are way over priced and I would be ashamed to produce the miniatures they do and call it professional. This latest idea should be insulting to the player base, and anyone who actually puts money into this needs their head examined

I think the kickstarter is within reason as far as being worthy of kickstarter. I just think BTP's product for the price is a bit...meh.


Paint-It-Black studio, also on Youtube, does much better stuff for similar (often lower) prices.

This is simply a "please help us buy models" plea - it is nothing new or different, just them building up an inventory of painted modes they can sell quicker to improve cashflow quicker.

This isn't a KS by any means.

How is this any different than Zombicide, Sedition Wars, Relic Knights, all those video games, etc.?

Give us money so our business can make more money!

Pure garbage.

Watched the video, no thanks.

I got one project done with them in the past. on low res cam pictures (made with calculator not a 21centry camera) they provided the models where ok-ish, painted to level 4. When I got my models I was shocked ! My 6 years old son could do better ... And that was service for 1500$...
One example from their web store, for "only" 2250$ you can get necron Army worth 450$ painted with 3 colours and dry rushed with wall brush!
http://www.freewebstore.org/bluetablepainting/Large_Rust_Necron_Army_3000_Points__Lot_2604/p1459024_7980736.aspx

Going back to this kick started you must be mad (I as was) to use their service....

So I should start a commission service and half ass everything. I'd have a pool for my pool!

So using the link that god.ra posted we can see that they already stock fully painted armies ready to buy. So why a kickstarter to "start" doing this?

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
So using the link that god.ra posted we can see that they already stock fully painted armies ready to buy. So why a kickstarter to "start" doing this?

Reaper Miniatures already stocked Miniatures, including from the Bones compound, before their Kickstarter.

Mantic Games already stocked Miniatures and Games, including for both Fantasy and Sci-Fi before either of their Kickstarter.

Etc... .

They all went in to stock more of it faster. Simples.

$60 excl. shipping and taxes for six Dark Vengeance cultists?

http://www.freewebstore.org/bluetablepainting/Chaos_Space_Marines_Chaos_Cultists_x6__Lot_2582/p1459024_7976588.aspx

 Zweischneid wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
So using the link that god.ra posted we can see that they already stock fully painted armies ready to buy. So why a kickstarter to "start" doing this?

Reaper Miniatures already stocked Miniatures, including from the Bones compound, before their Kickstarter.

Mantic Games already stocked Miniatures and Games, including for both Fantasy and Sci-Fi before either of their Kickstarter.

Etc... .

They all went in to stock more of it faster. Simples.

Those companies used kickstarter to fund NEW PRODUCTS in an existing line, they did not use it to acquire NEW STOCK for an existing product. There is a world of difference. I'm sure there will be some kind of snippy response however I leave satisfied in the knowledge you're wrong ;-).

As for blue tables "excellent" product offered others are already doing an admirable job of showing off its shortcomings.

There promo video does them no favors either it's grating, annoying and talks to the potential contributor as though they are idiots.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW I have reported this to kickstarter so will see what they make of it.

Is it bad that I couldn't make it past the first nine seconds of their pitch movie?

 BrookM wrote:
Is it bad that I couldn't make it past the first nine seconds of their pitch movie?

I completely understand your pain.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:


Those companies used kickstarter to fund NEW PRODUCTS in an existing line, they did not use it to acquire NEW STOCK for an existing product. There is a world of difference. I'm sure there will be some kind of snippy response however I leave satisfied in the knowledge you're wrong ;-).

As for blue tables "excellent" product offered others are already doing an admirable job of showing off its shortcomings.

There promo video does them no favors either it's grating, annoying and talks to the potential contributor as though they are idiots.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW I have reported this to kickstarter so will see what they make of it.

Yeah, but there's a difference in

A) Their Kickstarter offerings are gakky/too expensive/unappealing and

B) Their Kickstarter offerings violate basic principles and shouldn't be allowed.


I am certainly not arguing against A. But than again, there're surely also people out there who don't like the Bones Miniatures or who thought Bombshell Babes was too expensive for what you get. It's the way it is. If BTP falls into it.. alas, that's it. I agree that their painting doesn't look very good and certainly not worth what they are asking. Yet, in my humble opinion, it's still a "better deal" than Penny Arcade asking US$ 500,- for a single re-tweet.

Getting them on B is a different argument however. And an arbitrary "distinction" of more miniatures are worthy of a Kickstarter but more painting services are not worthy of a Kickstarter seems to be difficult to defend from any sort of unbiased, rational and enforceable point of view. You keep claiming "miniatures" and "painted miniatures" are "a world of difference", but I don't really see it. You keep saying "new products" should be the lynchpin that decides, but that would've also disqualified Penny Arcade, etc.. .

I didn't even bother starting the video, so did better than me.

 n0t_u wrote:
I didn't even bother starting the video, so did better than me.

Lucky you, I felt like I was being treated like a preschooler or having pep-talk from a stereotypical brand of camp counsellor.

I always wondered if BTP use so horribly bad cameras to show their work so that it dont show there bad standard of painting

 Zweischneid wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:


Those companies used kickstarter to fund NEW PRODUCTS in an existing line, they did not use it to acquire NEW STOCK for an existing product. There is a world of difference. I'm sure there will be some kind of snippy response however I leave satisfied in the knowledge you're wrong ;-).

As for blue tables "excellent" product offered others are already doing an admirable job of showing off its shortcomings.

There promo video does them no favors either it's grating, annoying and talks to the potential contributor as though they are idiots.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW I have reported this to kickstarter so will see what they make of it.

Yeah, but there's a difference in

A) Their Kickstarter offerings are gakky/too expensive/unappealing and

B) Their Kickstarter offerings violate basic principles and shouldn't be allowed.


I am certainly not arguing against A. But than again, there're surely also people out there who don't like the Bones Miniatures or who thought Bombshell Babes was too expensive for what you get. It's the way it is. If BTP falls into it.. alas, that's it. I agree that their painting doesn't look very good and certainly not worth what they are asking. And, in my humble opinion, it's still a "better deal" than Penny Arcade asking US$ 500,- for a single re-tweet.

Getting them on B is a different argument however. And an arbitrary "distinction" of more miniatures are worthy of a Kickstarter but more painting services are not worthy of a Kickstarter seems to be difficult to defend from any sort of unbiased, rational and enforceable point of view. You keep claiming "miniatures" and "painted miniatures" are "a world of difference", but I don't really see it. You keep saying "new products" should be the lynchpin that decides, but that would've also disqualified Penny Arcade, etc.. .

Lo and behold a reading comprehension fail, I even put the relevant phrases in bold for you doh!

As far as penny arcade goes they qualify just fine as every time they update there blog or comic they are adding something NEW to an EXISTING LINE. If penny arcade offered what BTP is then effectively they would simply be offering to repost old comics. That's the difference.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:


Lo and behold a reading comprehension fail, I even put the relevant phrases in bold for you doh!

As far as penny arcade goes they qualify just fine as every time they update there blog or comic they are adding something NEW to an EXISTING LINE. If penny arcade offered what BTP is then effectively they would simply be offering to repost old comics. That's the difference.

How that? Even if it's a gakky paintjob, every new army painted by BTP is a new paintjob. Arguably, more man-hours go into it than do for a new Penny Arcade strip. At the very least, you know, BTP also update their website every time they finish a new army-paintjob.

 Zweischneid wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:


Lo and behold a reading comprehension fail, I even put the relevant phrases in bold for you doh!

As far as penny arcade goes they qualify just fine as every time they update there blog or comic they are adding something NEW to an EXISTING LINE. If penny arcade offered what BTP is then effectively they would simply be offering to repost old comics. That's the difference.

How that? Even if it's a gakky paintjob, every new army painted by BTP is a new paintjob. Arguably, more man-hours go into it than do for a new Penny Arcade strip. At the very least, you know, BTP also update their website every time they finish a new army-paintjob.

Have you actually read their kickstarter? They state that they will be carbon copy armies with carbon copy paint schemes. Nothing NEW or ORIGINAL.

Man hours or cost of resources is irrelevant though nice try at straw manning ;-)

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:


Have you actually read their kickstarter? They state that they will be carbon copy armies with carbon copy paint schemes. Nothing NEW or ORIGINAL.

Man hours or cost of resources is irrelevant though nice try at straw manning ;-)

Sure I did.

Every DreadBall box Mantic sends out will also be a carbon copy of every other DreadBall box. Hasn't stopped their Kickstarter.

Straw manning? Wasn't my intention. I just don't see how your case would ever hold up to anything other than .. I just don't like it.

 Zweischneid wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:


Have you actually read their kickstarter? They state that they will be carbon copy armies with carbon copy paint schemes. Nothing NEW or ORIGINAL.

Man hours or cost of resources is irrelevant though nice try at straw manning ;-)

Sure I did.

Every DreadBall box Mantic sends out will also be a carbon copy of every other DreadBall box. Hasn't stopped their Kickstarter.

Straw manning? Wasn't my intention. I just don't see how your case would ever hold up to anything other than .. I just don't like it.

And if their kickstarter was "we are raising money to purchase copies of DreadBall to stock our store so that we can sell it later", then you would have a point.

But they created a brand new game from scratch, and are using this to pay for the tooling for those models. That was the project: "We are creating a new game from scratch." not "we are going to stock an existing game that we are purchasing from somebody else".

 d-usa wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:


Have you actually read their kickstarter? They state that they will be carbon copy armies with carbon copy paint schemes. Nothing NEW or ORIGINAL.

Man hours or cost of resources is irrelevant though nice try at straw manning ;-)

Sure I did.

Every DreadBall box Mantic sends out will also be a carbon copy of every other DreadBall box. Hasn't stopped their Kickstarter.

Straw manning? Wasn't my intention. I just don't see how your case would ever hold up to anything other than .. I just don't like it.

And if their kickstarter was "we are raising money to purchase copies of DreadBall to stock our store so that we can sell it later", then you would have a point.

But they created a brand new game from scratch, and are using this to pay for the tooling for those models. That was the project: "We are creating a new game from scratch." not "we are going to stock an existing game that we are purchasing from somebody else".

This is correct those PROJECTS created NEW PRODUCTS the REWARDS where copies which is perfectly permissible. BTPs PROJECT does not create a NEW PRODUCT but restocks an EXISTING PRODUCT. See the difference?

No new product?

So I can go to any painting business I want and say I want a tournament ready Space Wolf army right now, here's X amount of dollars, ship it to me tomorrow.

I've never heard of that before. Maybe you can enlighten me.

 d-usa wrote:


And if their kickstarter was "we are raising money to purchase copies of DreadBall to stock our store so that we can sell it later", then you would have a point.

But they created a brand new game from scratch, and are using this to pay for the tooling for those models. That was the project: "We are creating a new game from scratch." not "we are going to stock an existing game that we are purchasing from somebody else".

Yeah. But Mantic just purchased their tooling, designs, etc.. from somebody else.. added value by making a game from it.. then sell it.

BTP is purchasing their miniatures, brushes, office space, etc.. from somebody else.. add (a little) value by painting it.. then sell it.

One's more production the other more services, but it's still the same principle of a company doing what they always do to make a profit. It clearly wasn't the first or last game Mantic did.

You could say they just added more games to their existing portfolio of games.. it's not like they diversified into something they never did before.

Reaper also stocked Bones Miniatures before the Kickstarted, now they stock more at greater variety, just like BTP hopes to. And .. once again .. Penny Arcade didn't start anything from scratch either. They just "stocked" more webcontent to the content they already had. And even there, they didn't even fund their webcomic with Kickstarter. They just funded the promise to show less ads next to them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:


This is correct those PROJECTS created NEW PRODUCTS the REWARDS where copies which is perfectly permissible. BTPs PROJECT does not create a NEW PRODUCT but restocks an EXISTING PRODUCT. See the difference?

Nice. Capital letters. How about quote me the Kickstarter ToS that it needs to be a "NEW PRODUCT"? That's simply not a criteria. The criteria is to fit the arts and creative category (they paint stuff), to not be a business (BTP fails that, as does Mantic), not be a charity and be a self-contained project.

Simply put this is not only a violation of kickstarter policy but the kind of thing that wears out a great idea like kickstarter. This isn't the presentation of a new product but a repackaged service. I don't care if someones making a clothing line, a game, or new cooking ware as long as its a new product of some kind. But its refurbishing an existing product. Pretty lame. And why the "kickstarter bubble " will someday pop. Because of shameless secondary store fronts.

 5deadly wrote:
Simply put this is not only a violation of kickstarter policy but the kind of thing that wears out a great idea like kickstarter. This isn't the presentation of a new product but a repackaged service. I don't care if someones making a clothing line, a game, or new cooking ware as long as its a new product of some kind. But its refurbishing an existing product. Pretty lame. And why the "kickstarter bubble " will someday pop. Because of shameless secondary store fronts.

True. But it seems incoherent to get all fussed up about it now. The first sin was committed long ago. If they'd wanted to avoid secondary store fronts, they should've stopped Reaper, Mantic, etc. . They had the "no business" clause in there since they start. They could've enforced it anytime.

If they didn't want to stop secondary store fronts, it would be rather hypocritical to now arbitrarily exclude some, but not others, simply because the stuff they're selling seems less cool.

Let's all just cool it a bit please chaps yes ?

many thanks

yeah,
I used the report this project button. You all should do this too.
They are just selling their wares via kick starter.

They even give up making up rewards at the end and just offer increased store credit...

"If you pledge $5,000 you will get $5,750 worth of credit towards your assembly and painting. If you pledge $7,500 you will get $8,750 worth of credit towards assembly and painting, and for $10,000 you can get 20% more than what you pay for with a $12,000 dollar credit towards painting and assembly."


I'll be watching to see if kickstarter close their 'project'.

Panic...