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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Monstrous creatures and the mace is not an issue, never was an issue, and only is an issue for those who don't want to be wrong, it's AP2

Monstrous Creatures are always AP2? That's AWESOME! Afraid to fight the aforementioned mace in the hands of a DP now, but it's still awesome.

Drakmord wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Monstrous creatures and the mace is not an issue, never was an issue, and only is an issue for those who don't want to be wrong, it's AP2

Monstrous Creatures are always AP2? That's AWESOME! Afraid to fight the aforementioned mace in the hands of a DP now, but it's still awesome.

No, it's not being a monstrous creature that makes you AP2. It's having Smash that makes you AP 2. Smash is also not an integral part of Monstrous Creatures. So a Monstrous Creature without Smash won't be base AP 2, though I'm not sure of any that exist.

 -Loki- wrote:

Drakmord wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Monstrous creatures and the mace is not an issue, never was an issue, and only is an issue for those who don't want to be wrong, it's AP2

Monstrous Creatures are always AP2? That's AWESOME! Afraid to fight the aforementioned mace in the hands of a DP now, but it's still awesome.

No, it's not being a monstrous creature that makes you AP2. It's having Smash that makes you AP 2. Smash is also not an integral part of Monstrous Creatures. So a Monstrous Creature without Smash won't be base AP 2, though I'm not sure of any that exist.

Yes it is.

Being a Monstrous Creature automatically gives you the Smash special rule. Just like being a Bike automatically gives you the Hammer of Wrath, Jink, and Relentless special rules.

Being a MC also automatically gives you the Fear, Hammer of Wrath, Move through Cover, and Relentless special rules too.

Hmm, I don't recall seeing Smash on there. I just thought it was a way to disassociate AP2 with being an MC.

Firestorm and Doombolt is not enough? O.o

edit- regarding Tsons taking ranged weapons on champs

 -Loki- wrote:
Hmm, I don't recall seeing Smash on there. I just thought it was a way to disassociate AP2 with being an MC.

Correct, other models may be given the Smash special rule as it is its own entity. But it is an intrinsic special rule of Monstrous Creatures.

Nerm86 wrote:
Stop whinging about your Noise Marine Champions, Thousand sons Sorcers dont even get the option to take different weapons.

A force axe, force staff, and force sword are pretty good options.

A Thousand Sons Aspiring Sorcerer has access to all the options you'd usually consider for a Sarge type character except the combi-weapons. There are plenty of reasons to bitch about Aspiring Sorcerers, but weapon options aren't one of them.

I meant ccw not ranged. A few of my sorcerers are modelled with power fists etc, I guess it can count as a power axe lol

Yeah, I guess causing Instant Death on a Tervigon or something isn't good enough

Experiment 626 wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
Still waiting on them to fix the are edly stupid Noise Marine entry... (or rather, how f ed-up the Noise Champion is!)

Sure it is... Fine in the sense that;
a) For the first time in 3 editions, the Noise Champ can't get a sonic blaster.
b) The Noise Champ can only ever gain the +1A for two close combat weapons if you buy him a rather expensive plasma pistol!

Only sergeant equivalent in the entire fething game that has a massive tax just to get +1A... Hell, you can't even legally give him a pair of lightning claws if you wanted to!

So other than being useless in combat, and losing out on one of his traditional weapon options, he's fine...

he has been kellied
DE wracks come with a pair of posioned blades, so the champion does get his +1 attack for 3 base. But if you then replace one of his weapons with a power weapon, venom blade, or flesh guantlets you lose your bonus attack as you need a CCW and a special weapon and posioned blades were not ordinary CCW. Might have changed in 6th but in 5th it clearly wasnt looked at.

Another big I still have, is what happens when a Daemon Prince of Nurgle takes wings? And what the heck is the point of putting SnP on a monstrous creature? It literally does nothing (unless you were derp enough to get the burning brand, so you cant overwatch with it)

 StarHunter25 wrote:
Another big I still have, is what happens when a Daemon Prince of Nurgle takes wings? And what the heck is the point of putting SnP on a monstrous creature? It literally does nothing (unless you were derp enough to get the burning brand, so you cant overwatch with it)

My guess is the FAQ will make it so it either does nothing, or makes them Jump Monstrous Creatures.

On a MC, SnP is a negative. It makes the Nurgle DP cheaper then he would be otherwise.

Uuh... costs 15 points to "upgrade" to a Daemon of Nurgle (which makes him worse), and costs more than Daemon of Supermegaawesome (Slaanesh). Seriously, was Kelly drunk when he came up with the upgrades and costs for marked daemon princes??

 StarHunter25 wrote:
Uuh... costs 15 points to "upgrade" to a Daemon of Nurgle (which makes him worse), and costs more than Daemon of Supermegaawesome (Slaanesh). Seriously, was Kelly drunk when he came up with the upgrades and costs for marked daemon princes??

Nurgle Princes were real dominant in the last edition and now they kind of suck and dont even get a bonus to toughness. Nurgle powers in the new book are kind of silly gift of contagion gives ur opponent the shrouded special rule and -1 attack. So if you cast the power and accidentally get flyblown palsy it could suck for you unless you were assaulting them.

 Tomb King wrote:

 StarHunter25 wrote:
Uuh... costs 15 points to "upgrade" to a Daemon of Nurgle (which makes him worse), and costs more than Daemon of Supermegaawesome (Slaanesh). Seriously, was Kelly drunk when he came up with the upgrades and costs for marked daemon princes??

Nurgle Princes were real dominant in the last edition and now they kind of suck and dont even get a bonus to toughness. Nurgle powers in the new book are kind of silly gift of contagion gives ur opponent the shrouded special rule and -1 attack. So if you cast the power and accidentally get flyblown palsy it could suck for you unless you were assaulting them.

Considering that the marks themselves are horribly priced (+1I is the same cost as +1T for HQ's, why?) Not to mention some rather redundant things (Was rending really the best you could think of for a unit with AP2 already? Sure it helps vehicles but assault nades would've been nicer..)

Exergy - no such rule existed in 5th. You got bonus attacks any time you had 2 CCW, same as in 6th, with the exception being weapons that specifically stated otherwise. none of the weapons you mention restricted the 2 CCW bonus to having to have 2 of the same weapon

In 6th this weapon specific (powerfists, lightning claws, etc) rule was changed to the USR "Specialist Weapon"

 StarHunter25 wrote:
Uuh... costs 15 points to "upgrade" to a Daemon of Nurgle (which makes him worse), and costs more than Daemon of Supermegaawesome (Slaanesh). Seriously, was Kelly drunk when he came up with the upgrades and costs for marked daemon princes??

Don't they get +1T?

 Grey Templar wrote:

 StarHunter25 wrote:
Uuh... costs 15 points to "upgrade" to a Daemon of Nurgle (which makes him worse), and costs more than Daemon of Supermegaawesome (Slaanesh). Seriously, was Kelly drunk when he came up with the upgrades and costs for marked daemon princes??

Don't they get +1T?

No they don't.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
There is a few other things of confusion, do plague champions trade in plague knives for example

Yes, absolutely, same as a regular sargeant would lose his Chain Sword if he takes a Power Sword or a Power Fist.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tomb King wrote:

 StarHunter25 wrote:
Uuh... costs 15 points to "upgrade" to a Daemon of Nurgle (which makes him worse), and costs more than Daemon of Supermegaawesome (Slaanesh). Seriously, was Kelly drunk when he came up with the upgrades and costs for marked daemon princes??

Nurgle Princes were real dominant in the last edition and now they kind of suck and dont even get a bonus to toughness. Nurgle powers in the new book are kind of silly gift of contagion gives ur opponent the shrouded special rule and -1 attack. So if you cast the power and accidentally get flyblown palsy it could suck for you unless you were assaulting them.

You have to consider the fluff behind the power though. Nurgle gifts every individual differently, it's one of the ways he shows affection. Also, I know it sucks that the enemy get Shrouded, but doesn't it always suck when you get crappy rolls and, for example, miss half your hits? What me and some friends do is we build unique Lords and Daemon Princes that suck a little less. Games Workshop generally doesn't allow for in-store games, but we get a hoot out of it.

The aspiring sorcerer may not take any form of weapon upgrades other than bombs and reshape his force weapon.
The only thing you can pray for is doombolt on him