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Hi.

I am n00b to tactics of this game, and maybe I have missed something useful, and I need advice of Marines, CSM veterans.

I have a little problem with defeating Khorne Berserkers. My friend is a devout Khorne cultist and is deploying them frequently as his primary and only troops choice, units of said berserkers (equipped with power weapons) are frequently joined by his Chaos Lord with Mark of Khorne (equipped with an Axe of Blind Fury). I have really no luck in fighting these units: 3+ armor save makes them almost immune against Whirlwind fire, and in close combat they slay even my Deathwing Terminators (equipped with Thunderhammers or Power fists). Even with Deathwing Banner and Master Belial my Terminators are no match for them.

Two times similar scenario: two rhinos packed with berserkers, unload them in turn 2 close to my deployment zone and assaulting everything in their sight. (once they have even assaulted and destroyed a Predator tank in close combat).

I am considering following solutions:

1. Buying Land Raider Crusader for my Terminators, assaulting from LRC (with Frag Assault Launchers and stuff)
2. Giving my Terminators Lightning Claws, so that I can inflict more damage in initiative step 4
3. Abandoning Terminator based approach; Taking just tactical squads with lots of boltguns. More shooting attacks to take them down quickly.
4. Assaulting them with a Dreadnought, which is so heavily armored, that it would be hard for them to even scratch it... and locking them in close combat with something they cannot beat.
5. Anything else?

I am also considering taking Imperial Guard allied detachment, just for purpose of taking Heavy Artillery Carriage Battery ( http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Death-Korps-of-Krieg/HEAVY_ARTILLERY_CARRIAGE_WITH_EARTHSHAKER_CANNON.html ) which would also be useful in taking down things such as Daemon Prince or Defiler. (although Venerable Dreadnought with twin linked lascannon works well enough for me.

Any general suggestions with fighting against Chaos? (potentially with Daemons as allied detachment; games up to 2k pts; more likely around 1-1.5k).

Thanks in advance,
Maciek.

your best bet is the lightning claws with the shred special rule other than that it depends on what your opponent decides to charge but all I can suggest right now is giving your terminators lightning claws and making your termie squads 10 strong if you haven't already.

Your best bet is actually not to fight them; the fact that they are better than you in combat aside, shooting is more powerful than assault in 40k, so make a max. shooty list and blast them off the board.

maciek wrote:


I have a little problem with defeating Khorne Berserkers. My friend is a devout Khorne cultist and is deploying them frequently as his primary and only troops choice, units of said berserkers (equipped with power weapons)...

I hope you mean pw champs. Bezerkers cannot get PW's...

Also I hope he isn't disembarking and assaulting in the same turn- it looks like he is from the wording. Ye cannot disembark and assault unless you have a assault vehicle or are open topped- rhino's are neither.

My advice is the crusader with LC terms. Fight at the same initiative whilst ignoring his armor, and the crusader puts out an impressive amount of dakka. Forcing lots of saves on marines is a good way to cut then down, and the crusader is good at forcing a lot of armor saves.

Trust in your terminators.
Deathwing should beat khorne. There shouldn't be so many ap2 weapons. The only really obvious counterexample is the daemon prince, but storm shield and thunder hammer should cut him down to size. In fact the hammer comes in useful

The above posts seem to cover the reasons why I am yet to believe in khorne lists, from my first impression bile would be a better choice with his super, disturbed super humans.
That is lack of assault vehicles, foot slogging not being great, lack of power weapons really, cc is easy to avoid, khorne is really expensive.

I would line up on the back row of the board and pelt the enemy with kraks until they cry, then when you move to claim objectives and assault deathwing hold up very well.
This assumes a 5th edition build with LCs and SS/TH and CMLs.

This is all first impressions, I do have good knowledge of deathwing though, please slate this post.

Thank you for suggestions.

Master Belial (equipped with TH/SS) lost challenge to Daemon Prince once, so well, assaulting this monster probably isn't the best way to go.

And when fighting berserkers, TH/SS kit for most of Terminator in squad didn't work well either. Thunderhammer being unwieldy reduces them to initiative step one, when most of them are already slain. I will go with more claws.

I will need to finish my LRC model and give it a try. 250 points I hope will be well spent

Are CMLs much better option than assault cannons?

assault cannons all the way more shots more chance of hitting and wounding also they can rend missiles don't

You're approaching this the wrong way. Never, EVER, under ANY circumstances, engage Berzerkers in close combat. They're best countered with Vindicators, Leman Russes, Land Raider Redeemers, Fire Prisms, Defilers, plasma cannons, and anything else that can drop an AP2-3 template on them without being an infantry unit anywhere near charge range.

 Guardsman76 wrote:
assault cannons all the way more shots more chance of hitting and wounding also they can rend missiles don't

The CML is cheap. It supplies two kraks with ap3, else frags if the models are behind cover, that is usually about the same as the assault cannon. However, the range is what is needed.

Do you have to answer a challenge with Belial? I believe chaos has to accept and make challenges but I assume we can refuse.
He is easy to instant kill unless you were just tying the prince up. You should try to refuse challenges and let the rest of the terminators whack into the prince.

The only time to get into cc is if you are going to be charged when you should find cc swings more into your favour. I do like lightning claws, you can put the first wounds onto these models as to make sure all terminators will strike.