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Hey,

I've been playing my Eldar against a friend of mine playing a Kult most of the time. I can't even worry him with my guys, especially his nob squad. I'll explain :

My army is :

2x farseer (classic gear)

5 FD in a WS
10 DA in a WS
10 DA in a WS
5 pathfinders

A WraithLord

and 3 walkers

His army is :

3x 20 boys in trukks
A Battlewagon with shootas in it
Add a Nob squad with bikes, with medic-ork and cyb-ork body.

Every time his bike squad is on me on turn 2, and I don't stand a chance... I should move, but if I move, I can't shoot his trukks and he gets objectives. If I don't move, well... The horde gets on my WS and boom I'm dead.

I can bring more things on the battlefield, like 2 more Wraithlords, Harlies, Banshees, Scorpions, 5 more FD, 2 fire prisms, a Falcon, an avatar, 20 guardians. I have models, but I can't use them really properly, though I've read many times tacticas here...
Any of you has an idea ?

Plus, sorry for my approximative language, it's been a long time I've not written in english.

Thank you in advance for your answers

How about a Seer Council? It can tie up his Nob Bikers ad infinitum.

 wuestenfux wrote:
How about a Seer Council? It can tie up his Nob Bikers ad infinitum.

A jetbike seer council ? How much seers should I get ?

letoasterfou wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
How about a Seer Council? It can tie up his Nob Bikers ad infinitum.

A jetbike seer council ? How much seers should I get ?

Either way, on jetbikes or on foot.
In the 5th ed, I mostly played a Council on foot in a Serpent. Here the victories are more rewarding and the opponents are less pissed off.
I'd take 1 Fortuneseer w/ roward, 10 Warlocks w/ embolden (x2), enhance (x1), witch blades.

 wuestenfux wrote:

letoasterfou wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
How about a Seer Council? It can tie up his Nob Bikers ad infinitum.

A jetbike seer council ? How much seers should I get ?

Either way, on jetbikes or on foot.
In the 5th ed, I mostly played a Council on foot in a Serpent. Here the victories are more rewarding and the opponents are less pissed off.
I'd take 1 Fortuneseer w/ roward, 10 Warlocks w/ embolden (x2), enhance (x1), witch blades.

Well I guess it should do the trick, but the KFF and the medic are a pain. Plus without assault vehicle, won't the council get shot ?

letoasterfou wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

letoasterfou wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
How about a Seer Council? It can tie up his Nob Bikers ad infinitum.

A jetbike seer council ? How much seers should I get ?

Either way, on jetbikes or on foot.
In the 5th ed, I mostly played a Council on foot in a Serpent. Here the victories are more rewarding and the opponents are less pissed off.
I'd take 1 Fortuneseer w/ roward, 10 Warlocks w/ embolden (x2), enhance (x1), witch blades.

Well I guess it should do the trick, but the KFF and the medic are a pain. Plus without assault vehicle, won't the council get shot ?

Well, if you have several vehicles, the opponent will have a hard time to pick the HQ transport. Clever positioning is necessary here. The new rules for disembarking are not in favor of a cc unit mounted in a transport. So I'd consider a Jetcouncil here. You could keep it back and then charges the Nob Bikers when they are close. This should be possible since jetbikes have superior speed.

letoasterfou wrote:


3x 20 boys in trukks

I hope he's not putting all 20 boyz in the trukk, since the carry capacity of a trukk is only 12 boyz.

 Flavius Infernus wrote:

letoasterfou wrote:


3x 20 boys in trukks

I hope he's not putting all 20 boyz in the trukk, since the carry capacity of a trukk is only 12 boyz.

Sure.

Eldar should be able to take down all trukks in 1st round (or most of them) unless its night fight. Then the Orks need to take a walk. With the reduced cover save in the 6th, you should be able to decimate them quickly. Remember to shoot mob by mob until they are forced to make a morale check for casualties during the shooting phase.

Also you didn't mention what your farseers' powers are. Did you think about trying to mindwar the painboy out of the biker unit? It depends on a fair number of lucky die rolls, and you'd want both farseers to try it, but if they succeed (and if one of them also dooms the unit) then the rest of your shooting should be able to cripple the nob biker unit in one turn.

Might have to sacrifice the wraithlord by assaulting the weakened bikers too (remember wraithlords are characters, so he can challenge, which will save him from some power klaw attacks) and he should be able to take a bike or two with him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And don't forget that when rangers/pathfinders roll a 6 to hit, you can allocate that shot to the painboy too (sniper rifles get precision shot).

Well... Maybe he screwed me, but I don't remember him putting 12 orks in the trukk... :(

I haven't even thought of the mindwar. It might be great. But if I take mindwar, then I won't have doom. If I don't have doom, are the DA still useful ?
Haven't thought about the challenge either...

I wanted to buy bikes, but since new ones are coming soon, I'll save money for now. Plus, the conversion of seer bikes seems hard for me.

I want to thank you for your answers.

 Flavius Infernus wrote:

letoasterfou wrote:


3x 20 boys in trukks

I hope he's not putting all 20 boyz in the trukk, since the carry capacity of a trukk is only 12 boyz.

Beat me to it

We can cram some Boyz in vehicles, bu certainly not that many. 20 will fit in a battlewagon though.

letoasterfou wrote:
Well... Maybe he screwed me, but I don't remember him putting 12 orks in the trukk... :(

I haven't even thought of the mindwar. It might be great. But if I take mindwar, then I won't have doom. If I don't have doom, are the DA still useful ?
Haven't thought about the challenge either...

I wanted to buy bikes, but since new ones are coming soon, I'll save money for now. Plus, the conversion of seer bikes seems hard for me.

I want to thank you for your answers.

A Farseer can have more than one power, with stones she can use two of them in the same turn. Fortune is all you need to keep the Council alive. Doom is not necessary if you want to use it for the Council since witch blades wound on 2+ anyway.

Not sure if GW brings out Jetlocks soon.

 wuestenfux wrote:

A Farseer can have more than one power, with stones she can use two of them in the same turn. Fortune is all you need to keep the Council alive. Doom is not necessary if you want to use it for the Council since witch blades wound on 2+ anyway.

Not sure if GW brings out Jetlocks soon.

I'm certain there are some new jetbikes model coming out. Concerning the jetlocks I don't know ...

letoasterfou wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

A Farseer can have more than one power, with stones she can use two of them in the same turn. Fortune is all you need to keep the Council alive. Doom is not necessary if you want to use it for the Council since witch blades wound on 2+ anyway.

Not sure if GW brings out Jetlocks soon.

I'm certain there are some new jetbikes model coming out. Concerning the jetlocks I don't know ...

I have seen Footlocks mounted on jetbikes. For this, the seat of the jetbike was removed and the Warlock/Farseer was put there, with magnets. This is the cheapest alternative.

really anything with a lot of good mid to high strength shots will annihilate those trucks. Bear with me as I dont know the name of eldar units, but you guys have some walker thing that puts out 4 S6 shots a turn. those things annihilate trucks like there's no tomorrow. As for the battlewagon, its either firedragons (whatever the melta guys are called) or lance weaponry. Battlewagons have 4hp, so you're better off trying to pen it and blow it up than glance it to death. It's probably open topped too so that'll give you better odds of blowing it up. You can also try to go for shots on its weaker AV 12 side armor.

letoasterfou wrote:
Well... Maybe he screwed me, but I don't remember him putting 12 orks in the trukk... :(

I haven't even thought of the mindwar. It might be great. But if I take mindwar, then I won't have doom. If I don't have doom, are the DA still useful ?
Haven't thought about the challenge either...

I wanted to buy bikes, but since new ones are coming soon, I'll save money for now. Plus, the conversion of seer bikes seems hard for me.

I want to thank you for your answers.

This could be a major reason why he always wins. Trukk boyz are usually really weak against Eldar because shooting from one warwalker will usually kill the truck, then because there are only 12 boyz in the mob, you only have to kill a couple of models for them to be no longer fearless. It's a lot harder to use shooting to kill 20 boyz down to the level where they have to test.

Right, give both farseers mindwar and spirit stones, then one fortune and one doom. At the top of the turn, the fortuneseer always fortunes his own unit and the doomseer dooms whatever you're going to focus fire on that turn. Then they're still both free to do mind war in the shooting phase using the spirit stones to allow a second power.

Yes, you need doom if you're going to shoot the nob bikes.

Volume of fire. 3 War Walkers with 8 S6 Scatter Laser shots each will put some mean scratches on a Nob Biker Mob. The Biker Mob is T5, but the best save they have is 4+ with 5+FNP. Guide the Walkers and perhaps even Doom the Bikers to really ruin their day.

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:
Volume of fire. 3 War Walkers with 8 S6 Scatter Laser shots each will put some mean scratches on a Nob Biker Mob. The Biker Mob is T5, but the best save they have is 4+ with 5+FNP. Guide the Walkers and perhaps even Doom the Bikers to really ruin their day.

Sounds good. But with some dreads and shootas, he kills one or two easily. Plus he's lucky with dices... But I know, it's not your problem

letoasterfou wrote:

 Ghenghis Jon wrote:
Volume of fire. 3 War Walkers with 8 S6 Scatter Laser shots each will put some mean scratches on a Nob Biker Mob. The Biker Mob is T5, but the best save they have is 4+ with 5+FNP. Guide the Walkers and perhaps even Doom the Bikers to really ruin their day.

Sounds good. But with some dreads and shootas, he kills one or two easily. Plus he's lucky with dices... But I know, it's not your problem

Are you playing with LOS blocking terrain? Also, scatter lasers have a pretty long range, so you may be able to keep back of his shooting. If he's not taking Lootas then you should be able to outrange him with scatter lasers. Do the "shootas" in the battlewagon have S4 weapons or S7 "loota" weapons?

What is your Wraithlord armed with? Does he have any long-range anti-tuck weapons?
What do your wave serpents have? Are they all running with twin linked scatter lasers and shurican canons?

Sacrificial units:
Have you thought of infiltrating your pathfinders somewhere that will draw his nobs out of position? It's probably not very fluffy, but if you can sucker the nobs to waste a turn going after a sacrificial unit, then you can really focus on wrecking all the trucks on turn one and then it should be an easy battle of just mowing down orks. Have you thought of taking a squad of guardians instead of pathfinders? They are a little cheaper, and can add some more high strength shooting, and can deploy so that the nobs have to charge them before hitting anyone else. Also, have you considered not taking bladestorm on the DA? Keep them cheap at 120 points and you may be able to fit in another unit of sacrificial troops. Anything to speed bump that fast nob threat might help you.

HQ choice:
Have you considered Eldrad instead of two farseers? Might save some points depending on what you are going to equip them with, and he has all powers (including mind war), can cast 3 per turn, a 2+ power weapon, better stats, and all the spell casting upgrades. I've found that I like him better than two farseers in my armies, and at this point level it's not like you really need two HQs. Only reason I'd think you'd want to play two farseers instead of one Eldrad is if you are not allowed to take special characters.

Looking at this matchup it seems like it would be in your favor. You should have something like 45-50 S6 shots a turn, plus fire dragons, pathfinders and dire avengers. That should easily be able to stand back and knock out all three trucks on turn one. At that point, literally the only threat is the nob squad, and the entire army shooting at a doomed nob squad for a turn or two should be able to knock them out. This assumes that the battlewagon is not filled with "lootas" though. If they have high volume of S7 shooting, you may have to deal with that sooner.

-Myst

letoasterfou wrote:
But with some dreads and shootas, he kills one or two easily.

His S4 Shoota Boyz in a Battlewagon only have 30 inch threat range, 12 for movement and 18 for guns. Premeasure and keep your War Walkers more than 30" away from his Battlewagon. If his Battlewagon moves more than 6 inches, then they are hitting on 6's instead of 5's, meaning he needs to roll 6 to hit and 6 to glance. Dreads are even slower and easier to evade. What kind of Dreads is he running? Deff Dreads or squadrons of Killa Kans? Scatter Laser War Walkers will shred both of these.

Twin Scatter Lasers and a Shuriken Cannon on each of your 3 Wave Serpents will add 21 more S6 shots, 12 of them twin-linked. If he stops his Battlewagon within 18 inches of your Fire Dragon Wave Serpent, move it 6", deploy the Fire Dragons 6", Melta the vehicle, kill half of them with the S4 explosion, then shoot the remaining Boyz with the Wave Serpent's 7 S6 shots. Proxy one of your Wave Serpents as a Falcon and put an Eldar Missile Launcher on it. Use its mobility and 3 S8 shots to get side shots on the Battlewagon's AV12. If you know you are fighting Nob Bikers, assault them with Enhanced Warlocks with Witchblades on Bikes. Their WS5 will match the Ork Waaagh! Banner so that the Nobs do not hit on 3s. I don't like Singing Spears because they are 2 handed weapons, and a Warlock with a Witchblade has 2 attacks, 3 on the charge. I also like them on Bikes because of their mobility, Hammer of Wrath attacks, 3+ armour against all non-Power Klaw attacks, T4, and twin-linked Shuriken catapults.

What other models do you have access to?

Woaw, nice answers :

Mysticaria wrote:

Are you playing with LOS blocking terrain? Also, scatter lasers have a pretty long range, so you may be able to keep back of his shooting. If he's not taking Lootas then you should be able to outrange him with scatter lasers. Do the "shootas" in the battlewagon have S4 weapons or S7 "loota" weapons?

Yeah, we have a little LOS blocking. And he takes S7 lootas.

Mysticaria wrote:
What is your Wraithlord armed with? Does he have any long-range anti-tuck weapons?
What do your wave serpents have? Are they all running with twin linked scatter lasers and shurican canons?

WL is with flamers , brightlance and sometimes a sword.
My WS are mounted with Shuricannons everywhere

Mysticaria wrote:
Sacrificial units:
Have you thought of infiltrating your pathfinders somewhere that will draw his nobs out of position? It's probably not very fluffy, but if you can sucker the nobs to waste a turn going after a sacrificial unit, then you can really focus on wrecking all the trucks on turn one and then it should be an easy battle of just mowing down orks. Have you thought of taking a squad of guardians instead of pathfinders? They are a little cheaper, and can add some more high strength shooting, and can deploy so that the nobs have to charge them before hitting anyone else. Also, have you considered not taking bladestorm on the DA? Keep them cheap at 120 points and you may be able to fit in another unit of sacrificial troops. Anything to speed bump that fast nob threat might help you.

After that, I'm totally considering making my DA cheaper and draw attention with one more unit ...

Mysticaria wrote:
HQ choice:
Have you considered Eldrad instead of two farseers? Might save some points depending on what you are going to equip them with, and he has all powers (including mind war), can cast 3 per turn, a 2+ power weapon, better stats, and all the spell casting upgrades. I've found that I like him better than two farseers in my armies, and at this point level it's not like you really need two HQs. Only reason I'd think you'd want to play two farseers instead of one Eldrad is if you are not allowed to take special characters.

He doesn't want me to play Eldrad as he has no named an he thinks he's overpowered.... He makes a point no ?

But yeah, finally an army list with more S6 guns looks like a good idea !

So he can play with arguably one of (if not THE) best units in the game and you are not allowed to take Eldrad? I call BS on that one. As for the lsi, I would look into getting some EJBs. They are the best troop choice in the eldar codex in this edition. War walkers with guide and doom support will, on average, put 5,3 unsaved wounds on the Nobz. Bubblewrap them with a guardiansquad and you should get 3 turns before they can be assaulted.

What means Isi and EJB ?
By best unit you mean the nobs ?

EJB=Eldar Jet Bikes

I think lsi was supposed to be the word 'list', as in army list.

So your 'friend' routinely beats you, and refuses to allow you a fighting chance with one model? He does not sound very friendly.

Trick is to drop the Nobz Painboy and the KFF Big Mek with Mind War, drop the Trukks with any guns you have (Scatter Lasers will do the trick), then focus fire on the Nobz and Battlewagon (you might need Bright Lances if you can't get people around behind it) while avoiding the now-footslogging Orks.

Also, if he's using 20 Boyz in a Trukk, he's cheating. Trukks have transport capacity 12. Minor point, but if you didn't catch that I'm thinking you might want to ask to read his Codex to figure out what everything does, it might help.

I'll add a suggestion to drop your dire Avengers near objectives as soon as possible. You know his boys will head there, but they can't assault on the turn they get there. Use Bladestorm, guide and/or doom to make tmost of this, should be enough to scare off or severely blunt 12 boys.

Also try running a cheap jetbike squad to keep the bikers busy until your wraithlord can reach them. Properly armed he can dole out I'D wounds in combat.

To kill his trukks, try proxying in some Warp Spiders.
They deep strike in, blast a torrent of S6 shots at the rear, and then dive into cover.
Next turn, jump into range of another trukk, or gun down the squad you spilled out in the last turn.

They are expensive, but useful for killing light vehicles, and would be nice against the high T of the Nob bikers.

Always take a squadron of SL/SL Walkers, unless your lists needs the points/speed/FOC slot.

letoasterfou wrote:
Woaw, nice answers :

Mysticaria wrote:
HQ choice:
Have you considered Eldrad instead of two farseers? Might save some points depending on what you are going to equip them with, and he has all powers (including mind war), can cast 3 per turn, a 2+ power weapon, better stats, and all the spell casting upgrades. I've found that I like him better than two farseers in my armies, and at this point level it's not like you really need two HQs. Only reason I'd think you'd want to play two farseers instead of one Eldrad is if you are not allowed to take special characters.

He doesn't want me to play Eldrad as he has no named an he thinks he's overpowered.... He makes a point no ?

But yeah, finally an army list with more S6 guns looks like a good idea !

Use Eldrad. Just because he thinks that Eldrad is OP doesn't mean he is. Not to mention, you are trying to find ways to do better against him.

As for him not having any named characters is moot. Orks don't really have any "OP" HQ choice. I've faced many Eldar lists with Eldrad and me only using a standard Warboss or Big Mek.

In the end, Eldrad is usually taken by my Boyz or a Nob with an unusual thirst for a shiny staff.

If he has trouble beating a list with Eldrad, it's up to him to start changing his tactics...

 NickTheButcher wrote:

letoasterfou wrote:
Woaw, nice answers :

Mysticaria wrote:
HQ choice:
Have you considered Eldrad instead of two farseers? Might save some points depending on what you are going to equip them with, and he has all powers (including mind war), can cast 3 per turn, a 2+ power weapon, better stats, and all the spell casting upgrades. I've found that I like him better than two farseers in my armies, and at this point level it's not like you really need two HQs. Only reason I'd think you'd want to play two farseers instead of one Eldrad is if you are not allowed to take special characters.

He doesn't want me to play Eldrad as he has no named an he thinks he's overpowered.... He makes a point no ?

But yeah, finally an army list with more S6 guns looks like a good idea !

Use Eldrad. Just because he thinks that Eldrad is OP doesn't mean he is. Not to mention, you are trying to find ways to do better against him.

As for him not having any named characters is moot. Orks don't really have any "OP" HQ choice. I've faced many Eldar lists with Eldrad and me only using a standard Warboss or Big Mek.

In the end, Eldrad is usually taken by my Boyz or a Nob with an unusual thirst for a shiny staff.

If he has trouble beating a list with Eldrad, it's up to him to start changing his tactics...

Well, you really don't need Eldrad. He cannot FoF and so may become a liability when you need the charge.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 NickTheButcher wrote:

letoasterfou wrote:
Woaw, nice answers :

Mysticaria wrote:
HQ choice:
Have you considered Eldrad instead of two farseers? Might save some points depending on what you are going to equip them with, and he has all powers (including mind war), can cast 3 per turn, a 2+ power weapon, better stats, and all the spell casting upgrades. I've found that I like him better than two farseers in my armies, and at this point level it's not like you really need two HQs. Only reason I'd think you'd want to play two farseers instead of one Eldrad is if you are not allowed to take special characters.

He doesn't want me to play Eldrad as he has no named an he thinks he's overpowered.... He makes a point no ?

But yeah, finally an army list with more S6 guns looks like a good idea !

Use Eldrad. Just because he thinks that Eldrad is OP doesn't mean he is. Not to mention, you are trying to find ways to do better against him.

As for him not having any named characters is moot. Orks don't really have any "OP" HQ choice. I've faced many Eldar lists with Eldrad and me only using a standard Warboss or Big Mek.

In the end, Eldrad is usually taken by my Boyz or a Nob with an unusual thirst for a shiny staff.

If he has trouble beating a list with Eldrad, it's up to him to start changing his tactics...

Well, you really don't need Eldrad. He cannot FoF and so may become a liability when you need the charge.

This is true, but to not take him simply because the other player is "scared" seems kind of lame. The OP should be playing lists the way HE wants to play them. Not the way someone else does.