Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, being an army that should have the best flyers (thopugh surprisingly Orks have more variety than any other army), here is the Nightwing designed for Codex use and a new Flyer, courtesy of me. Please note I don't own the actual NW ruls so mine may be not even vaguely similar. Both the Nightwing and the Eagle (the one I designed) are Fast Attack units



Nightwing Superiority Dogfighter 140pts
Type Flyer
BS 4
Armour
F- 11 (suggested 10)
S 11 (suggested 10)
R 10
HP 3

Wargear
Twinlinked Bright Lance
Long Barrelled Shruikan Cannons
Rg 36"
S 6
AP 5
Assault 3, Pinning, Twinlinked

Holofield
Grants +1 to Jink saves when Evading. Otherwise, the Holofield grants the Shrouded Special rule.


Special Rules
Night Vision
Supersonic
Vector Dancer
Impossible Flight
When Zooming, Combat Speed of the Nightwing is 12-18" and Cruising Speed is 19-36".




Eagle Hunter-Killer Craft

The Eagle Hunter Killer Craft, commonly referred to as simply, Eagles, are incredibly swift attack craft utilised buy the Eldar to systematically hunt down and destroy enemy encampments, artillery, convoys and can even be used to take down enemy aircraft, although their low armour and their loadout means that as a dogfighter they fall down as useful weapons. Thus, the Eldar use them as arial assassins, attacking ground targest with pinpoint deliveries of Plasma and Fusion Torpedoes. Once expended, the Eagle is armed with a Bright Lance and twin Shurikan Cannon to allow it to continue combat. Like all Eldar craft is is incredibly fast, and though it lacks the sheer speed and maneuverability of Nightwing Fighters, it is still superior to most Imperial Craft. It is capable of slowing to speeds that should be incapable to sustain flight and this change can be completed instantly, allowing it to shake pursuers by more or less stopping in midair, only to unleash a payload of Fusion missiles into the rear of the enemy fighters, which thanks to psychically attuned systems, are delivered with almost 100% accuracy.


Eagle Hunter Killer Craft.........180pts

Flyer
Bs 4
F 10
S 10
R 10
HP 2

Wargear Twinlinkled Shurikan Cannon
Bright Lance
6 Plasma Torpedoes
Rg 72"
S 5
AP 5
Heavy 1, 1 shot, Blast

6 Fusion Missiles
Rg 72"
S 8
AP 1
Heavy 1, 1 use only, Armourbane


Special Rules
Night Vision
Strafing Run
Missile Lock
Impossible Flight
Target Aquired
When an Eagle fires missile weapons of any kind at an enemy Flyer or Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures, it counts as BS 5. In addition, the oppossing Flyer/SFMC may not take Jink Saves granted by the Evade or Dive rules, but may takle them if the model already has the Jink rule. All bonuses to Jink (such as Skilled Rider) apply as normal.

Note that the unlike other Flyers the Eagle may utilise up to 4 missile each turn instead of 2, although each missile can only be used once as normal and each missile fires counts towards the number of weapons it can fire.


So, please give feedback and tell me what you think, and if anyone has a better name for the Eagle than Eagle, please let me know.

Just dealing with the Nightwing here

Minor Tweaks
~130-140 pts
AV 10/10/10 HP3
Flyer

Gear
2 Brightlances
TL Shuriken Cannon

Rules:
Supersonic
Deep Strike
Vector Dancer
Shrouded
Agile

It really just needs the 3rd hull point and a cost reduction to bring it into line with its DE counterparts.

Why would you want to create new rules for the Nightwing when it has existing rules? Especially when the existing one is better and cheaper than what you've created.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Why would you want to create new rules for the Nightwing when it has existing rules? Especially when the existing one is better and cheaper than what you've created.

Like I said I didn't know the rules for it. And isn't designed for codex use.

The Nightwing's rules that are designed for use with Codex: Eldar are in Imperial Armor Aeronautica (which I'm not allowed to repost here due to forum rules); all I can tell you is that it's not as tough or fast as your rules and it's got more firepower.

Out of interest, is it different from the IA11 + FAQ update?

Deadshot: try to aim for a new flyer. The Nightwing is good, but not so good it needs taken down a notch, and therefore not really Proposed Rules material so to speak. Unless you wish to add decent vehicle upgrade to it, since that's the department it's missing.

Well, disregarding the Nightwing for a moment, how does the other flyer, the Eagle HK Craft, look?

What does missile lock do?

Impossible Flight: The wording on this rule is odd. You mean to say "the combat speed of this vehicle is 12" when zooming" and then let normal rules take care of the rest.

In general you need to make the Eagle more focused. Is it meant to be a bomber, long range missile lobber or air supremacy fighter.
Keep in mind that both the Bright Lance and the Shuriken Cannon are weak solo. Also, keep in mind that the Nightwing is an excellent air supremacy fighter and a decent anti-armour.

Plasma Torpedo: these are weak. Simple as. S4 AP4 isn't strong enough to merit one-shot. I'd suggest either upping S and AP by one or upping blast size and adding pinning. Edit: or simply give the aircraft Eldar Missile Launchers.

Fusion Torpedo: these are decent. I'd make it blast, however, for the simple reason that it prevents them to be used against aircraft.
If they are meant to be anti-aircraft, I'd call them missiles.

What Eldar is missing is:
Heavy Support bomber. Distort bombs. *hinthint*
Dedicated HS or FA anti-tank (note: try to make missiles small blast to prevent AA or AI roles).
Shenanigan Aircraft. See below for example weaponry.

Spinner missiles. Non-blast Night Spinner missiles. Extra powerful DT-effect on flyers.
Distort Bombs. Large Blast SX AP2 Bomb.
Vibro Cannons. Line-weapon that can hit flyers.
Haywire Launcher. Multi-shot haywire.

 Mahtamori wrote:
What does missile lock do?

USR that means misiles scatter D6 rather than 2D6

Impossible Flight: The wording on this rule is odd. You mean to say "the combat speed of this vehicle is 12" when zooming" and then let normal rules take care of the rest.

I wanted to make it clearer actually. Combat Speed for a normal flyer is 18" and everything above i Cruising AFAIK. This bit gives a little wiggle room, combat speed being that 6" range.

In general you need to make the Eagle more focused. Is it meant to be a bomber, long range missile lobber or air supremacy fighter.
Keep in mind that both the Bright Lance and the Shuriken Cannon are weak solo. Also, keep in mind that the Nightwing is an excellent air supremacy fighter and a decent anti-armour.

A little bit of all three. I kind of imagined it being a sort of ariel assassin, mixed with a bomber, but have a little Harrier JumpJet mixed in as well, where it would be chased by enemy flyers, stop, then launch missiles as its enemies fly by. As for the none- Missiles, I intended for them to be weak, as I see this as kind of a 1 trick pony, where once the missiles are gone, they suck at stuff.

Plasma Torpedo: these are weak. Simple as. S4 AP4 isn't strong enough to merit one-shot. I'd suggest either upping S and AP by one or upping blast size and adding pinning. Edit: or simply give the aircraft Eldar Missile Launchers.

It has the Strafing Run rule, so it has Pinning on all weapons, and +1 BS against Infantry, MCs, Artillery, Beasts, Cavalry, and non Skimmer/Flyer Vehicles.

Fusion Torpedo: these are decent. I'd make it blast, however, for the simple reason that it prevents them to be used against aircraft.
If they are meant to be anti-aircraft, I'd call them missiles.

Meant to be missiles. Will change.

What Eldar is missing is:
Heavy Support bomber. Distort bombs. *hinthint*
Dedicated HS or FA anti-tank (note: try to make missiles small blast to prevent AA or AI roles).
Shenanigan Aircraft. See below for example weaponry.

Spinner missiles. Non-blast Night Spinner missiles. Extra powerful DT-effect on flyers.
Distort Bombs. Large Blast SX AP2 Bomb.
Vibro Cannons. Line-weapon that can hit flyers.
Haywire Launcher. Multi-shot haywire.

And I will get some thinking for those last suggestions.


In fact here is the concept idea for that Spinner missile. I believe spinners are the Warp Spider type weapons? Here goes


Skyserpent

BS 4
Armour 10/10/10


Special Rules
Vector Dancer
Impossible Flight


Wargear
Shurikan Cannon or Bright Lance
Aracnoweaver
The Aracnoweaver is a supersized version of the Warp Spider Spinnerette Rifle, firing miles of monomolecular wire into the air, designed to ensnare aircraft and send them tumbling to their doom.

The Aracnoweaver can fire in oe of 2 modes
Mode 1
Rg 48"
Str 6
AP -
Heavy 6, Rending, Large Blast, Pinning
Once the final position of the Blast has been resolved, place a coin or other counter on the central hole of the marker. Any model attempting to move, run, charge, fall back or otherwise move through this area, 6" from the counter, unless utilising Jump Packs, Jetbikes, etc, take a dangerous terrain test. Models that fail may not take any armour or cover saves as the razorsharp filament rips them to shreads.

Mode 2
Pick point within 48" of the weapon, and draw a line 6" in any direction. Any Skimmer, Jetbike or Flyer moving through this line must pass a dangerous terrain test, and Jetbikes that fail may not take armour or cover saves. Skimmers instea take a single penetrating hit. Flyers taker a penetration hit. If a Flyer suffers any result other than a Shaken or Weapon destroyed result, it immediately Crashes and Burns.



May Exchange Aracnoweaver for one of the following

Distort Bombs
Rg- (Bomb Weapon)
Str X
AP 2
Large Blast, One Use only
(Follows rules for Distortion Cannons for wounding and rules)

Vibro Cannons (Note that when using Skyfire, these can hit Flyers and Swooping FMC, but nothing else. Without Sktyfire, they can hit all other units, but not Flyers/SFMC

Haywire Discharger
Rg 24"
Str 1
AP -
Assault 3, Haywire

What really needs upgrading is the Vampire; it's presently ridiculously expensive and can't actually do all that much since it's pretty lightly-armed for a super-heavy flyer and can't carry many troops.

Well, as for the other one, Eldar already have a stand-off attack craft, the Phoenix.

The Phoenix is a close-support bomber, really, it can't take on aircraft as well as the Eagle Deadshot made and it's shorter-ranged. I don't see any real problem in including both, it's not like the Imperium isn't spoiled with a load of flyers with overlapping roles.

I still think the point is that a standard Eldar Missile Launcher (Plasma Missile) is not even close to being worth a one-shot weapon that is severely limited in number of maximum shots. Just give it two Eldar Missile Launchers or increase the potency of the Plasma Torpedo in a significant manner.

As for the Eagle in general, I'll reiterate: it's unfocused. It's like a flying Space Marine Land Raider without the armour. If it's meant to be a strafing run craft, try to get more blasts. If it's meant to be an anti-aircraft, well... skip strafing run, make fewer blasts, etc. Try to focus it.

Also, we need a bomber. And you shouldn't exchange a weapon for a missile or a bomb. Plus, I do believe that missiles should be limited in numbers and if you really want to use them every single turn you should pay for it.

AnomanderRake, the Phoenix is actually a very decent anti-aircraft. At 48" you get massive amounts of S5, decent amount of S8, and when you get within 24" you have a smattering of close range S6. It's not hard to get any of the Eldar aircraft within 6" in the rear of an enemy craft and only the Hover-variants can save themselves from more than one round of shooting.

 Mahtamori wrote:
I still think the point is that a standard Eldar Missile Launcher (Plasma Missile) is not even close to being worth a one-shot weapon that is severely limited in number of maximum shots. Just give it two Eldar Missile Launchers or increase the potency of the Plasma Torpedo in a significant manner.

As for the Eagle in general, I'll reiterate: it's unfocused. It's like a flying Space Marine Land Raider without the armour. If it's meant to be a strafing run craft, try to get more blasts. If it's meant to be an anti-aircraft, well... skip strafing run, make fewer blasts, etc. Try to focus it.

Also, we need a bomber. And you shouldn't exchange a weapon for a missile or a bomb. Plus, I do believe that missiles should be limited in numbers and if you really want to use them every single turn you should pay for it.

AnomanderRake, the Phoenix is actually a very decent anti-aircraft. At 48" you get massive amounts of S5, decent amount of S8, and when you get within 24" you have a smattering of close range S6. It's not hard to get any of the Eldar aircraft within 6" in the rear of an enemy craft and only the Hover-variants can save themselves from more than one round of shooting.

Sorry, misread the datasheet. I somehow got the idea stuck in my head that Phoenix missile launchers were 24" range, thanks for the correction.