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Awesome game once again jy2, these battle reports are really convincing me to start up a Tyranid force

I honestly think you would have won had it not been for deep striking the KEY to this list being effective right into tyranid hands. It was a rash move and lost you the game.

Other than that, i think that this list can be very effective

Eldercaveman wrote:
Awesome game once again jy2, these battle reports are really convincing me to start up a Tyranid force

I think the essential element to starting any army is this....would it be fun to play/would I enjoy playing it? If you think the answer would be yes, then by all means, go for it. Bugs definitely have the tools to compete with the other armies. They have a slight learning curve, but it isn't that steep. As for me, I think they are a blast to play.

thisisnotpancho wrote:
I honestly think you would have won had it not been for deep striking the KEY to this list being effective right into tyranid hands. It was a rash move and lost you the game.

Other than that, i think that this list can be very effective

You are right. If I were to play this list in a tournament, I'd probably play it more conservatively (as in deepstriking Epidemius' unit into my his own deployment zone and hopefully out of LOS). But it is these test games where you can experiment with more risky/aggressive tactics.

Though chaos got spanked in this game, that doesn't mean that they aren't competitive. It just means I may have to set up another test game and against another "opponent."

 jy2 wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
Awesome game once again jy2, these battle reports are really convincing me to start up a Tyranid force

I think the essential element to starting any army is this....would it be fun to play/would I enjoy playing it? If you think the answer would be a yes to you, then by all means, go for it. Bugs definitely have the tools to compete with the other armies. They have a slight learning curve, but it isn't that steep. As for me, I think they are a blast to play.

I have been interested in 'Nids as a second army after my Blood Angels, so I've been doing a lot of reading up on them, and your battle reports have been a big help thanks. I've come up with a couple of test lists, before I go and by any models, if you have time would you give me your $0.02 on them?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/487516.page

Shameless plug

Ok, I will comment on your list there.

J, i think you ruled something wrong with the shooting on the double enfeebled plaguebearers, you cannot ignore their FNP, they are eternal warriors.

I do think dumping the bearers and epi after the nids lines was a bad move, the list need plaguemarines, they would have eaten those monstrous creatures in seconds....

As always: GREAT REPORT, i do learn a lot from reading them.

 Valek wrote:
J, i think you ruled something wrong with the shooting on the double enfeebled plaguebearers, you cannot ignore their FNP, they are eternal warriors.

I do think dumping the bearers and epi after the nids lines was a bad move, the list need plaguemarines, they would have eaten those monstrous creatures in seconds....

As always: GREAT REPORT, i do learn a lot from reading them.

Q: If a model has the Eternal Warrior and Feel No Pain special
rules, can it still make Feel No Pain rolls against Wounds that
inflict Instant Death (Eternal Warrior states that the model is
immune to the effects of Instant Death, after all)? (p35)
A: No

Good to see tyranids do so well. Those biomancy powers really made the difference here.

Well I am no expert, but I have been playing Chaos a lot and I play Nurgle a lot and I have to say that I don't think this is a fair shake for this list. I am by no means saying I am a better player than Jy or frankly anyone on here! But I think that taking cultists so heavily is a mistake...

What I typically play (and usually works) is a tough/well rounded CSM Nurgle list with Eppi added in to give it a nasty kick.

HQ:
I usually just run a MoN Biker lord with a black mace and melta bombs. He gets stuffed in his death star of T6 bikes. Even if he dies he takes a lot of shooting and will be a major threat/target when a bunch of T6 bikers are being shoved into the enemies face. Which takes the fire away from Eppi.

Troops:
It's based around 3x PM squads with flamers and tricked out champ etc. I tried running cultists and honestly they die way to easily, they could be viscious with MoN if they don't get whittled down quickly, but that's the issue.... They die so easily. The thought behind PMs is that even with FnP being 5+ now they are still quite difficult to kill! If/when Eppi gets his kills they'll have 3+ FnP making these guys a major threat.

Fast Attack:
6x MoN Bikers - These guys with there champ are a big part of the army. I usually try and play them very aggressively. They typically can weather enough fire to get into the opponents face/lines. But their dual purpose is to pose such a big threat that Eppi doesn't get shot a lot. So while they could be a very expensive decoy, it can be worth it if Eppi lives long enough. If someone DOES focus on Eppi then the bikers typically will get into CC which is very bad for the opponent

Heavy:
I go back and forth between MoN Havocs and MoN Oblits. Honestly I think it depends on what you have a better chance of playing against. Assault cannons and HB havocs could have been huge against Nids, BUT if you had a good chance of playing MEQ and TEQ then oblits would be better. Plus Havocs can be helped a lot by eppis boosts, while Oblits not so much.

Allies:
I typically run only Eppi and 5-7 bearers and always.... ALWAYS deep strike them behind my lines. I understand your tactics Jy, but if you had got 2 turns with Eppis boosts you would see its ok to have the Nids not split up! Since Eppi is with the plague bearers (thus only 1 unit) I'm pretty sure they come in auto as per Daemonic Assault (since you can't divide them up via model count for preferred wave etc.) It is a tough list and competitive but there are a bunch of little details that need to be done like when deploying leaving ample room for Eppi to drop in safely behind the lines and then if possible trying to block LoS if the terrain is there for it. He and his bearers are not very durable with a 5+ and 5+ FnP. Once FnP gets to 3+ then they are better, but still why risk letting them get shot when you don't have to.

Great bat rep though Jy and I hope you do another with possibly some plague marines! I'd try dumping Typhus and swapping zombies and some cultists (maybe keep a squad if you really want) for PM squads.

Ben

Ben

Yea DS epi like that was like sending a candle needed to spark your powder keg out into a rainstorm, not really the brightest move. Never the less I think this report demonstrates that even without the typhus trick, it can be quite easy with allied CSM to bring enough shooting to bare to reach the tally anyway.

GG, really would have liked to see the result if playing more conservative with the linchpin though. I still give it to the nids but I think it would have been bloodier for sure.

Nids really benefit from the new biomancy powers, it adds a whole new role to Tervigons and Zoanthropes. Iron arm and endurance on a regeneration TMC is really fun to see in action, it's like Old One Eye on steroids! Also I had a feeling Nids would win, this C:SM has a lot of prerequisites that might not fall into place.

 Zaephyr wrote:
Good to see tyranids do so well. Those biomancy powers really made the difference here.

Yeah, Biomancy powers are pretty boss for nids. Too bad with all those good powers that all bugs not named the Swarmlord are only Level 1 psykers. Makes me kind of long for those zoanthropes as unit-buffers again.


@Benamint

In my next game, I will be giving plaguemarines a go. I don't have any chaos bikers at the moment, though I like the idea of including them in my Nurgle army. Maybe I'll just use my nob bikers to test them out.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea DS epi like that was like sending a candle needed to spark your powder keg out into a rainstorm, not really the brightest move. Never the less I think this report demonstrates that even without the typhus trick, it can be quite easy with allied CSM to bring enough shooting to bare to reach the tally anyway.

GG, really would have liked to see the result if playing more conservative with the linchpin though. I still give it to the nids but I think it would have been bloodier for sure.

There will be a rematch! Only next time, I will be just a wee bit wiser.

 Autarch Fiallathandirel wrote:
Nids really benefit from the new biomancy powers, it adds a whole new role to Tervigons and Zoanthropes. Iron arm and endurance on a regeneration TMC is really fun to see in action, it's like Old One Eye on steroids! Also I had a feeling Nids would win, this C:SM has a lot of prerequisites that might not fall into place.

Not for your opponent. Yeah, an Epidemius build is a bag-of-tricks but it definitely is a good trick under the right conditions and against the right army. You know, same as any other "unbalanced" army.

To be honest I was giving that to the Tyranids anyway, as the Chaos list was not very good, and not because of the tally, but because it wasn't built focusing on the tally enough. Plague Marines benefit the most from the tally so should be the backbone of the army. The Cultists don't really get much out of it in comparison.

You make a good point about the tally struggling against mech alright, as smaller amounts of models will make it harder to get the count up.

Cultists-Tally list is mainly there for offense. Their durability is questionable, but their offense could be quite scary due to their numbers. Anyways, for my first Chaos game, I wanted to gauge how such a build would fare.

For my second game - The Rematch - I will be testing out plague marines. That may be a slightly more balanced Epidemius build than pure cultists.

Epidemius builds...just like Draigowing, shunting-grey knights and other such builds...is not really a balanced army build. As a matter of fact, it is purposefully unbalanced. This makes it very strong against some armies (i.e. foot lists) but not as strong against others (pure mech, flyers). Hence, it is more prone to rock-paper-scissors types of matchups. The thing is, it is taking advantage of the current meta-trend, which is a migration to more foot-based armies from players.