Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I started playing 40k this year, I bought my first model in January, and I've been totally absorbed in the game. But since I am still rather new to the hobby, I don't know much about how the game has evolved over the years. I can gather little bits of info from research and reading other posts where people refer back to old systems, like Tyrands having Eternal warriors units and now none. The one part I know almost nothing about is the lost race of Squats. All I really know about them is that they hated orks, were essentially space dwarves, and reported to be wiped out by the tyranids.

Can anyone help me fill in the gaps as to how they played (mech, swarm, etc.)? What were their stats like (high toughness, low leadership, etc.)? Did they have any special racial abilities (ATSKNF, mob rule, etc.)? Anything would be greatly appreciated.

I started playing 40k almost 10 years ago and the squats were long gone even then, so I can't help you.

Their involvement in the game pre dates a formal structure where you had a codex and various units and lists.

The idea of a book detailing the forces available to your faction was largely laid down in 2nd, Squats never received a codex in second edition beyond an entry in one of the books in the core box that gave a brief summary of all the races.

Broadly, they had a lot in common with the WHFB dwarves, ie they were a proud and stubborn race who prized the manufacture of fine machinery and weaponry.

They were better developed in epic scale, where they employed a variety of massive war machines like Land Trains and giant armoured airships.

Their two most memorable units at 40k scale were probably bikers, also including trikers, which very much had a hells angel flavour and exo armour, which was basically a riff on terminator armour.

Someone from the design studio is on record as saying they were phased out as essentially nobody could come up with a direction for them that wasn't already occupied by another faction, coupled with the fact that they had taken on a slightly comic edge that wasn't felt in keeping.

Stats wise I think they were essentially GEQ but with higher T and Ld. But don't quote me.

Squats were space dwarves that existed back when the game was a heck of a lot sillier than it is now. As far as I know they played a lot like Fantasy Dwarves, slow, tough, and choppy with some shooty prowess.

I'm not sure what the point of digging them up is, though; GW's officially buried them by decreeing that they never existed (the whole 'eaten by 'Nids' thing was a 4e fluff patch, newer stuff just doesn't mention them) and their last rules were from 2e...

Lexicanum can help: wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Squats#.UJbs4aDDPTo

Some of the fluff is outdated such that it no longer fits with the current canon, but that's not surprising as removing the Space Dwarves was one of GW's steps towards moving away from RT-era "Warhammer....IN SPAAAAAACCCCEEEEEEE" fluff and towards a real semi-serious, grimdark setting.

edit: Not to mention the ridiculousness of such a degree of "natural" evolution over the course of a mere few tens of thousands of years, but that's a different story. After all, Ratlings and Ogryns are just as implausible, but they're still canon.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
GW's officially buried them by decreeing that they never existed (the whole 'eaten by 'Nids' thing was a 4e fluff patch, newer stuff just doesn't mention them) and their last rules were from 2e...

They're listed among a group of known abhuman strains in the 6e book. This could mean that they still exist, or that they're extinct but remembered, but they're definitely back in canon.

They are back, but are effectively extinct as an Abhuman strain. Or at the very least relegated to very very small populations here or there.


The game was nothing like it was today back when the Squats were in the game. Those were the times when you could have missile launchers firing Vortex missiles into the enemy.

2 Squats on hover boards with tons of OP grenades were a legit army.


It may have been a fun time, but it was a silly time.

i had no idea squats were so old or that they had been removed so long ago. No wonder I can't find much about them.

Also, the old 40k game sounds pretty different than what it is today. I was kind of wondering how they would compare against the current armies if you brought them back as they were when they were phased out. But it sounds like the game is so different it would be hard to make a comparison either that or they would be sickly overpowered.

You couldn't do it. The game mechanics were completely different.

When I played Titan Legion, some 20 years ago, you could played with squat army. But they were not very "sexy" to play with

 shamroll wrote:
i had no idea squats were so old or that they had been removed so long ago. No wonder I can't find much about them.

Also, the old 40k game sounds pretty different than what it is today. I was kind of wondering how they would compare against the current armies if you brought them back as they were when they were phased out. But it sounds like the game is so different it would be hard to make a comparison either that or they would be sickly overpowered.

The guy over at The Jungle has an army using mostly WFB Dwarves that uses the Ork rules if you really want to have an army of space dwarves, I suppose...

Well, thanks to Mantic, the models exist to make a pretty OK Squats army (Forgefathers) All you need is rules.

Huh, orks? Not what I would have picked to represent Squats. Guard or maybe SM seem closer to me.

codemonkey wrote:
Well, thanks to Mantic, the models exist to make a pretty OK Squats army (Forgefathers) All you need is rules.

And better models. As dated as they are, the RT-era Squat models are better than most of what Mantic has put out so far.

Huh, orks? Not what I would have picked to represent Squats. Guard or maybe SM seem closer to me.

I've seen them done using any of those three by various people. Salamanders were the list of choice for most back when Codex Armageddon was current.

Wasn't there a sculptor for GW who went off and made more "not squats" which he/she sells on his/her website?

Let the power of google commense!

*docter who tardis sound*

Turns out it's a guy.
http://www.olleysarmies.co.uk/home.html

This will tell you all you need to about Squat background:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Squat#.UJc6usXA_X4

As for their gameplay stats, when they existed the game was a very, very different thing so it's not really anything that can be accurately translated into 6th edition.

There is no such thing as a Squat, there never has and there never will. Move along, citizen.

that fire warrior should have gotten a stealth field it helps
didnt know they were back in fluff even as abnormal humans interesting heard that the Demiurg were going to be the new space dwarves but lets see how that works out

 Coolyo294 wrote:


There is no such thing as a Squat, there never has and there never will. Move along, citizen.

As funny as this joke was, it's pretty much obsolete now that the squats were mentioned in 6th edition....

I think it is a lot better that GW at least acknowledges that the Squats at least existed. It seems really silly that GW just straight up said the product they created never existed at all. Maybe FW could pick them up.

I wonder if GW would ever phase out any other army or if the current armies are too entrenched to actually drop them completely.

The whole "eaten by Tyranids" was never official, it was just an offhand comment made. What was "official" was that GW, for a long time, just banned any mention of them. It was a petty and juvenile response, but I think they just got tired of players asking when they were going to bring them back.

Why were they asking this? Well, because GW had effectively made their entire armies of Squats useless. For a little while, they suggested playing them as Imperial Guard, which is what reasonable players would have done. After all, Squat models were, for the most part, armed with lasguns and wearing flak armor. Just about every army was revamped and lost models, so Squat players could hardly complain about the loss of some of their models. However, 40K players are hardly ever reasonable.

If GW had been smart, they'd have released a Squat list that was an offshoot of Codex: Imperial Guard. Essentially throw the Squat players a bone. You can see that they learned their lesson with the Sisters of Battle. No real intention or desire to keep the line around, but they remembered how annoying Squat fanatics were, so they figured so long as they pretend that the Sisters are still part of the game, that they will get far less annoying hate mail and shirt-tuggings at conventions from oddly smelling players. That, and hopefully they figured out that telling a segment of your target market to go feth themselves and the model trikes they rode in on is probably not a good idea, nor is it really ethical.

Regardless, the whole "Et by Tyranids" and "Never existed" schtick is gone. The Squats are officially a living race again in 40K. They're just not an army. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I don't think the Space Dwarves were a solid fit for the universe, especially the way they were portrayed in the game. However, as an Imperial Guard sub-faction, I think they fit in just fine. But, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the reintroduction. If you want some Squats in your Imperial Guard army, be patient on EBay. There are deals from time to time, and Squat models make characterful additions.

This might be useful

http://www.gamehobby.net/subject_indexes/subject_wh40K_squats.html

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
If GW had been smart, they'd have released a Squat list that was an offshoot of Codex: Imperial Guard. Essentially throw the Squat players a bone. You can see that they learned their lesson with the Sisters of Battle. No real intention or desire to keep the line around, but they remembered how annoying Squat fanatics were, so they figured so long as they pretend that the Sisters are still part of the game, that they will get far less annoying hate mail and shirt-tuggings at conventions from oddly smelling players. That, and hopefully they figured out that telling a segment of your target market to go feth themselves and the model trikes they rode in on is probably not a good idea, nor is it really ethical.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I have the feeling I am), but I think there was an IG Squat-specific list written after the company chose to pull the plug on them. But yeah, they weren't eaten away in fluff, they were erased from continuity, to the point that some BL novels featuring squat characters had them rewritten as human/mechanicus in further reprints. An extremely dumb move if you ask me.

It costed GW nothing to discontinue the line and explain away their absence through a brief insert in the rulebook or pertinent codex, mentioning that they took heavy losses to xenos and got assimilated into the Imperium or something. Kinda like 6th ed. has just done... with a 20-something years delay.

There was never anything official from GW after the Black Book Codex in 2nd Edition. That was the last list that they had. It was actually pretty egregious too. This was before Imperial Guard 2E, so they could take Land Raiders still, and you could take 5 man, 5 Heavy Weapon squads as your entire army if you wanted to.

But there was never any need to even explain away the Squats. A simple "Go away, leave us alone" list like the Sisters got in White Dwarf would have been ideal, but they could have also just folded them into the Imperial Guard via a White Dwarf article or a mini-codex supplement. But, maybe they just decided that the Squats were hurting the brand. Even if that was the case, they probably should have done something for their Squat fans who had invested money in the models. Ignoring them for several years wasn't really a very good service choice.

 meecham63 wrote:
When I played Titan Legion, some 20 years ago, you could played with squat army. But they were not very "sexy" to play with

You obviously didn't have access to the choice models........my twin cyclops, land train and overlord armoured air ship were awesome.

Like most post have already said they were basically dwarfs in space

On another note i have not seen listed yet i might as well add. You can however thank them for termanator armor. They were the first to make them, since their home planet a larger gravity field then normal they had to use mech suits to mine and what not. Iirc they also helped build most of the tanks humans use now, well they designed them, then when their planet was destroyed and the emperor died it was all lost

You can also thank them for MKIII power armour. Its development was the result of the tunnel fighting when taking their worlds.

Some of the models...

 Grey Templar wrote:
They are back, but are effectively extinct as an Abhuman strain. Or at the very least relegated to very very small populations here or there.


The game was nothing like it was today back when the Squats were in the game. Those were the times when you could have missile launchers firing Vortex missiles into the enemy.

2 Squats on hover boards with tons of OP grenades were a legit army.


It may have been a fun time, but it was a silly time.

I do remember the Vortex weapons, tbh no so much different to Jaws or simulr really, except they scattered and could wipe out your own army....

Those models are still pretty cool

If I was to include Squats in an army today , I think the Hasslefree Grymns are the best choice to use.

maybe using the IG codex is a bit simple , but it works..

 shamroll wrote:
i had no idea squats were so old or that they had been removed so long ago. No wonder I can't find much about them.

Also, the old 40k game sounds pretty different than what it is today. I was kind of wondering how they would compare against the current armies if you brought them back as they were when they were phased out. But it sounds like the game is so different it would be hard to make a comparison either that or they would be sickly overpowered.

The game stats weren't -that- different. All you'd have to do is remove the Move, Int, Cl, and WP stats and then you have 40k stuff. Altough the newer stuff by far would win. Marines pay 250 points for 10 T3 4+ save infantry (back when they were "mere" humans) in Rogue Trader, and an IG squad is 10 men and a lascannon for 200 pts.

The only army that would come close to winning is the Vortex auxilary grenade launcher spam IG had, because they could fire off around 30 Vortex grenade rounds in the first turn of the game.