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Forgive me for such a newb question, but can somebody explain what the strategic purpose of putting units in reserve are?

I know that some units must start in reserve, like flyers. And I understand that deepstriking is a big bonus. But besides these two things, why would you want to start a normal unit in reserve rather than moving and blasting from turn one??? I'm sure there are great reasons to do it, which is why everybody does it, but I can't figure this out.

If they're in reserve then they can't be shot if you're going second.

You can commit them where needed when they arrive, rather than perhaps wasting time redeploying

Deep striking or outflanking require arrival from reserve, both have which have their own set of tactics

Psychological effect on your opponent, they know your hammer unit is on its way, but not exactly when or where. This may disrupt and interfere with their actions.

Reserving isn't to be taken lightly though, I frequently reserved units when I first started playing again, and through tough experiences, have realised one must carefully weigh the benefit of the reservation against losing at least a turn of action.

Right, other than the offensive power of reserving thanks to special mobility options, there is also the defensive.

If you know that your opponent is going to be deepstriking or outflanking their own stuff in, then it can make sense to hold a portion of your army in reserve until you know where his stuff is going to arrive so that you can counterattack it with a more sizable force. Usually fancy mobility options rely on local superiority to be effective, something which can be negated with the use of reserves. Just ask any drop pod player.

The same principle applies to fliers, despite the fact that you don't have a choice in the matter. If your opponent shows up with fliers first, they won't have any of your fliers to shoot at, so will have to engage with ground targets. Then, the next player turn, you can show up with your own fliers and shoot down your opponent's fliers without him having a chance to shoot at yours first.

Other than that, yeah, it's of rather limited use in 6th ed. One of the few other uses for it I can see now that all-reserve armies are dead is if you have a giant foot horde, being able to keep your deployment zone a little less cluttered.

Usually you do it so your scoring units dont take the brunt of an opponent's alpha strike.

Hmm. I think I'm getting a better understanding of how this is used.

Here's a purely hypothetical question: Is there any offensive reason that you would keep a unit in reserve and deploy it at a later turn in your own normal deployment zone?

Basically I mean, introduce the unit into the game on turn 2 or 3 at the exact same place that you could have just deployed it during regular deployment. I understand that there are defensive reasons for doing this, as Tarrasq pointed out, it saves your troops from the enemy's alpha strike. But is there any offensive point to doing this?

None that I can think of.

I guess it would keep your long-range shooters from being shot at right away, but it's probably better to just have them on the board firing turn 1.

Better to attack early and often, rather than let a less-damaged enemy force chew on your scoring units, rather than engaging in counterbattery fire.

If you have Outflank, nothing's quite as nasty a surprise as something with meltas or plasma guns popping out on their flank.

I use it to protect my Vindicators / other valuable units from early fire if I'm going second. Good to protect tanks against opening salvos from opponents such as Tau.

Crazyterran wrote:

I use it to protect my Vindicators / other valuable units from early fire if I'm going second. Good to protect tanks against opening salvos from opponents such as Tau.

ok so from what I'm seeing, the purpose of keeping units in reserve is either to outflank/deepstrike/fly, or it's for defensive purposes right? Typically just to save your valuables from first-turn fire if you are going second. But generally you would want these units to be on the board during your half of turn 1 right?

bowloflostcells wrote:
Hmm. I think I'm getting a better understanding of how this is used.

Here's a purely hypothetical question: Is there any offensive reason that you would keep a unit in reserve and deploy it at a later turn in your own normal deployment zone?

Basically I mean, introduce the unit into the game on turn 2 or 3 at the exact same place that you could have just deployed it during regular deployment. I understand that there are defensive reasons for doing this, as Tarrasq pointed out, it saves your troops from the enemy's alpha strike. But is there any offensive point to doing this?

Rapid fire. A good example is the quad plasma CCS. Arriving from reserve it's Chimera can move 6" on with it's rear pointed towards enemy guns, the CCS can disembark another 6", and anything 24" from your deployment edge is fair game for 8 BS4 plasmagun shots that will be TL re reroll cover saves. The Chimera can then flat out 6" so it's not dead meat next turn.

bowloflostcells wrote:
Hmm. I think I'm getting a better understanding of how this is used.

Here's a purely hypothetical question: Is there any offensive reason that you would keep a unit in reserve and deploy it at a later turn in your own normal deployment zone?

Basically I mean, introduce the unit into the game on turn 2 or 3 at the exact same place that you could have just deployed it during regular deployment. I understand that there are defensive reasons for doing this, as Tarrasq pointed out, it saves your troops from the enemy's alpha strike. But is there any offensive point to doing this?

If you're packing a flamer squad against Tyranids for example, then there might be. Firstly it saves the flamer squad from focussed ranged fire from whatever shooting attacks the Nids have, and secondly it forces any approaching nids to spread out, but also forces them to take into account that those flamers could appear anywhere in the zone they're running towards, and at anytime.

But that's a more specialised scenario, so I'd say there's generally not much offensive reason to do it.

i love playing daemons because of reserves yes i only get half a army turn 1 but i can put the strongest part of my army in my enemies face and kill the things that will hurt the stuff coming in wave 2. a better example for most armies is putting ur termies in reserve because they have lots of plasma cannons on the table so turn one and 2 you can call the cannon and land the termies that will be almost impossible to kill. all depends on the game set up and what your fighting

Having a unit in reserves can be good because it can ensure that that unit gets a round of shooting. Especially if playing against a strong alpha strike list and going second.

To sum up the pros of having a normal unit in reserve, think of it like a special trump card in the following situations.

Your regular army is fielding well against your opponent, however, in a sudden move you just wound up with multiple units striking towards a valuable section of your army, and you need something in between these things, and fast. Your reserve roll comes around, and low and behold, you manage to bring in a couple expendable score units directly on top of the problem, and suddenly they have to fight through quite a bit more than originally.

It's the bottom of the ninth, and the bases are loaded, and your down one. You have opposition on the cap points, and without a solution fast, your going to lose. Reserves roll around, and with a easy roll, you get 2 drop pods loaded with support landing within inches of the cap points. They deploy, and bam, contested cap, and suddenly, in a freak double header, you've won by one with a impish smile on your face as your opponent screams and rages, simultaneously smashing the terrain into pieces and looking at you like the deathstar looked at Alderaan.

These are the advantages of having units in reserve.

bowloflostcells wrote:
Hmm. I think I'm getting a better understanding of how this is used.

Here's a purely hypothetical question: Is there any offensive reason that you would keep a unit in reserve and deploy it at a later turn in your own normal deployment zone?

Basically I mean, introduce the unit into the game on turn 2 or 3 at the exact same place that you could have just deployed it during regular deployment. I understand that there are defensive reasons for doing this, as Tarrasq pointed out, it saves your troops from the enemy's alpha strike. But is there any offensive point to doing this?

I'd argue no, in that unless you have a special deployment rule such as outflank or deepstrike, there is no offensive reason to reserve a unit, although this stems from the fact that reserves is an entirely defensive mechanic. All of the examples listed are about reserving to preserve your own units from the enemies attack. Yes, this may allow them to hit harder than they would if they deployed normally, but you are still holding them in reserves for defensive reasons.

bowloflostcells wrote:
But is there any offensive point to doing this?

There can be, subject to terrain and your opponents deployment. If your table has one or more long firing corridors (with large amounts of cover), it can be worth holding units in reserve so that you can offensively attack parts of the tabletop.

Imagine if there is a large amount of cover in the centre of the map, and your opponent has deployed some heavy support (with barrage weapons) on the edge of the terrain. They have the first turn, so they could move left or right, be protected from half the battlefield by cover, but still shoot indirectly. In this situation, it could be worth holding an aggressive unit in reserve so that it can attack one side (decided after the battle commences).

This goes with the above point. If you can dupe your opponent into moving into the line of fire or some kind of bottleneck, having a shooty unit in reserve can help your game plan. The obvous reason being your opponent is more likely to move into a bad position if he doesnt see the unit waiting for it. You also get the chance to set up multiple such traps to increase your chances of this happening. I call it the Anvil and the Hidden Hammer. I probably would only do this against more experienced players as against newbies you wont need the extra help. You probably dont want to let this become a signature move either.

It is also very nice to have fresh units arrive when your opponent's units are pretty banged up. Nothing is nastier than having a new batch of warriors drop into the rear ranks of a severely damaged army!

bowloflostcells wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

I use it to protect my Vindicators / other valuable units from early fire if I'm going second. Good to protect tanks against opening salvos from opponents such as Tau.

ok so from what I'm seeing, the purpose of keeping units in reserve is either to outflank/deepstrike/fly, or it's for defensive purposes right? Typically just to save your valuables from first-turn fire if you are going second. But generally you would want these units to be on the board during your half of turn 1 right?

Against a Chaos Marine list or Tyranid flyers, saving my Vindicators from being charged by FMCs or Vector Striked is A+ in my book, and it gives time for his rhinos/other gribblies to get in range.

Against a Tau player when you are going second, you can use it to hide valuables you don't want to go splat due to Railgun fire.

It's a way to hide Warlords from early game fliers.

Protect yourself from Necron early game/Imotekh (especially if you are going second, can't use that crazy Deathmark power on something that's not on the board.)

Having a Vindicator come on to a counter punch when your Opponent is rushing his rhinos towards you in a clump is good. Especially if he forgot about your Vindicators.

It's good for protecting squishy units like Landspeeders from early game spam fire.

On purge the alien, you can always reserve your Rhinos/Tactical Squads to prevent your Rhinos from giving up First Blood.

There's plenty of tactical situations where Reserving things is viable. There's also assault options for things like Terminators, Blood Angels, Vanguard Veterans, etc.

 schadenfreude wrote:

bowloflostcells wrote:
Hmm. I think I'm getting a better understanding of how this is used.

Here's a purely hypothetical question: Is there any offensive reason that you would keep a unit in reserve and deploy it at a later turn in your own normal deployment zone?

Basically I mean, introduce the unit into the game on turn 2 or 3 at the exact same place that you could have just deployed it during regular deployment. I understand that there are defensive reasons for doing this, as Tarrasq pointed out, it saves your troops from the enemy's alpha strike. But is there any offensive point to doing this?

Rapid fire. A good example is the quad plasma CCS. Arriving from reserve it's Chimera can move 6" on with it's rear pointed towards enemy guns, the CCS can disembark another 6", and anything 24" from your deployment edge is fair game for 8 BS4 plasmagun shots that will be TL re reroll cover saves. The Chimera can then flat out 6" so it's not dead meat next turn.

pretty sure you cant flat out after you disembark.

Getting behind cover and taking out the special troop at the back of the squad are my fave reasons to Outflank.

With 6th's wound allocation rules, people keep their missile launchers at the back of the squad, and let the standard troops die before it gets into danger.
Or, with a line of TH/SS terminators protecting the Librarian and LC models, drop in behind them, and those are the first to go down.

There's nothing better than having a CC unit held back, and popping out of reserve right next to the Whirlwind hiding at the back of the battlefield. They can't assault straight off, but just watch the Whirlie race off down the table while you shoot up its unprotected backside.

Reserves give you tactical options to use in the game. The more flexibility you have in dealing with threats your opponent can throw your way the better.

The most obvious and in your face example i can think of is a turn 1 drop pod assault, throwing as many units in drop pods at your opponents back field as possible, with the intention of doing as much damage as possible before their reserves show up. the intention is of course to throw your opponent onto the back foot, and since you cannot guarantee when reserves are going to show, its quite possible to win the game in one fell swoop.

now, deepstrikers do NOT have to appear on the enemy side of the board, they can appear anywhere you want, the threat of a unit of terminators deepstriking might convince your opponent to shield his vehicles, or squishy support units more than he should, and then your unit appears on your side of the board. in essence you will have forced your opponent to be more defensive over a percieved threat, and since you don't have to declare before the game where they appear, you have the flexibility to alter your plans on the fly.

For defensive measures, reserving something like a vindicator can be a good move, they are usually high priority targets, and they can (but don't count on it) destroy deepstriking units in one shot, the threat of this happening can often convince your opponent that deepstriking 'there' isn't a good idea after all...

You will have to decide on a case by case basis whether reserving certain units is a good idea or not. playing against a Tyranid army is a very different proposition than playing against a guard gunline, and even if 2 armies are the same, the composition can also determine if reserving is a good idea or not.

In essence though, reserving is a tactical choice, and choosing where to bring them on is another choice, the more choices you have, the better off you are imo. but there is a danger in reserving too much. I've tabled heavily reserved armies on turn 1 in the past, and the one time i tried a cronair army (with spitfires and ME109's as the night scythes) i was tabled by a drop pod assault. certainly its a valuable tool, but its not one you have to use.

Just be careful! I made the mistake of utterly relying on my reserve units to cripple my enemy and win me the game. Due to the Dice Gods being miffed at me that day, they came on in turn 4, just in time to watch the last of my defence collapse. Of course, this was a statistical anomaly but it does happen. Reserves, IMHO, are great for all the reasons everyone has given, just don't make the mistake I did.

For my codex, Blood Angels, we have a special rule that allows us to deepstrike with jump packs and only scatter 1 D6. This allows for some dual melta gun, tank popping, fun. It was WAY more fun when you didn't have to start with half your army on the table. Overall I think reserves is good because it allows your opponent to show their hand a bit and you can get a better idea of how their army functions, especially if its one you've never played before.

azreal wrote:Psychological effect on your opponent, they know your hammer unit is on its way, but not exactly when or where. This may disrupt and interfere with their actions.

If you put your hammer unit in reserve then the only psychological effect it will have on your opponent is to make him very happy that you made a horrible mistake.

As for the thread overall, a common one is to reserve crap units like Grots so they can pile onto objectives late in the game without having to suffer much firepower, which they obviously can't take.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

azreal wrote:Psychological effect on your opponent, they know your hammer unit is on its way, but not exactly when or where. This may disrupt and interfere with their actions.

If you put your hammer unit in reserve then the only psychological effect it will have on your opponent is to make him very happy that you made a horrible mistake.

As for the thread overall, a common one is to reserve crap units like Grots so they can pile onto objectives late in the game without having to suffer much firepower, which they obviously can't take.

Depends on the Hammer unit. If it has to walk on your side of the board then yeah, it makes the opponent happy, if it can Deepstrike or outflank, then your opponent is not so happy about it especially if it is a scoring hammer.

barnowl wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

azreal wrote:Psychological effect on your opponent, they know your hammer unit is on its way, but not exactly when or where. This may disrupt and interfere with their actions.

If you put your hammer unit in reserve then the only psychological effect it will have on your opponent is to make him very happy that you made a horrible mistake.

As for the thread overall, a common one is to reserve crap units like Grots so they can pile onto objectives late in the game without having to suffer much firepower, which they obviously can't take.

Depends on the Hammer unit. If it has to walk on your side of the board then yeah, it makes the opponent happy, if it can Deepstrike or outflank, then your opponent is not so happy about it especially if it is a scoring hammer.

Actually they would probably be happy, because that means he know they aren't going to be assaulting until turn 3 at the earliest. With some marginal bad luck on turn 2 that becomes turn 4, and so on. Plus with Deep Striking they are prone to scatter. With Outflank they may show up on the wrong side. Good hammer units need to be consistent and reliable, making a proper set-up in the list and a good regular deployment key.

A lot of us ork players like reserving a trukk full of MANz, because since trukks are so fragile and MANz are so nasty they go down quick if they start in the open. Reserve them, and they can come in later when things are shaken up and most of the dangerous things have killed each other. Then your MANz can just reign free across the field.

 loota boy wrote:
A lot of us ork players like reserving a trukk full of MANz, because since trukks are so fragile and MANz are so nasty they go down quick if they start in the open. Reserve them, and they can come in later when things are shaken up and most of the dangerous things have killed each other. Then your MANz can just reign free across the field.

ok this is something that gets to the heart of my initial confusion. How is it beneficial to keep a unit out of the fight if they could have been doing damage from turn 1. Somebody else made this comment about introducing fresh units later in the game through reserves as well.

I would think that if you were running 4 groups of trukk boyz and you left 1 in reserve, the three that were deployed on turn 1 would be annihilated much faster. If you deployed all 4 in the beginning, you would be giving your opponent more to shoot at and less of a chance to destroy any one. That's not even mentioning that reserving denies your unit of trukk boyz at least a turn of shooting, during which it could have been doing some major damage.

Maybe it's just me, but I tend to think that bringing the full force of your firepower at once seems to be a better choice, but I'm not an experienced player. I understand reserve for tactical deployment (deep strike/outflank) options, or to keep extremely fragile units safe. But when its a core force like a troop choice that should be pounding the opponent from turn one, this concept becomes harder to understand.

If I had another 10 chaos bikes, I'd be tempted to hold the second 10 in reserve almost all the time. A fast offensive unit in reserve can swing the battle in your favour at a key moment, even early on.

If you send you fast units up one flank and your opponent moves to counter, you have a counter-counter. Or they can fly up the weakened side. It's doubly effective if you've smashed your opponents fast units first.

kungfujew wrote:
If I had another 10 chaos bikes, I'd be tempted to hold the second 10 in reserve almost all the time. A fast offensive unit in reserve can swing the battle in your favour at a key moment, even early on.

If you send you fast units up one flank and your opponent moves to counter, you have a counter-counter. Or they can fly up the weakened side. It's doubly effective if you've smashed your opponents fast units first.

I think a concrete example like this makes a lot of sense. I might need to just experiment more to get the hang of this.