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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/12 02:22:49
Subject: Re:Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Are you asking if ANY deepstriking skimmer should reduce their scatter to avoid landing on impassable terrain/other units? If that is what you are asking, then the answer is an absolute no, unless the skimmer in question has a rule that specifically allows them to do so. Space Marine Inertial Guidance is an actual rule, specific to their drop pods. You can't just extend it to anything that deepstrikes. You can't even extend it to other drop pods from other codices, as it is a codex-specific rule. (other marine dex's may have IGS listed on their pods, I don't know off hand)
If that isn't what you mean, then please clarify your question.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/12 03:21:21
Subject: Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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Hah!
I'm just asking because if its just a placemarker, I could use a dime and it would be much less likely to scatter a long way...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/12 03:26:22
Subject: Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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The rules tell you to place a model from the unit, not a dime. P.36
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/12 03:28:34
Subject: Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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But according to Nos, it isn't a model, just a marker. I read the rule, but apparently I'm wrong.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/12 03:34:43
Subject: Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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I take it you mean this bit about being deployed?
Considering the rules say to "First, place one model from the unit anywhere on the table"
It actually means what it says. You can place the model anywhere on the table.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/12 03:43:01
Subject: Re:Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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Not reduce it's scatter no. Would scattering onto a model activate the skimmer rule to move the shortest distance off? Per deep striking the DS ability the model is considered to have moved and would that be enough to move them off a model? IGS states only land on yet as multiple people have posted it's not RAW yet you move it if it lands within one inch. It is RAW that if it would end it's movement over a model that a Skimmer is moved off the model the shortest distance. It is RAW that you can't move within one inch of an enemy model which would imply that you would move it at least an inch away from enemy models. To me this is an actual RAW interpretation while IGS is clearly not yet the only reason anyone has given for why IGS is treated that way is "cause it is" the same for why skimmers Deep Striking wouldn't is the same....
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ADD causes my posts to ramble from time to time. Please bear with me.
You're not a Time Lord stick with linear time.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/12 03:55:49
Subject: Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
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There is no skimmer rule to move the shortest distance off.
If a Deep Striking unit scatters into impassible terrain, off the table, or within 1" of enemy models, it mishaps.
Drop Pods have a special rule called Inertial Guidance saying that IF they would scatter into impassible or enemy models, you reduce the scatter by enough to avoid the mishap. I believe tyranid spore pods have a rule which functions identically.
No other Deep Striking units have this protection.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SoloFalcon1138 wrote:But according to Nos, it isn't a model, just a marker. I read the rule, but apparently I'm wrong.
The model functions as a marker. It's not the clearest rule in the world, but it's the only functional interpretation. If the unit (or even a model from it) were actually on the table, and scatter were treated as movement, then it would presumably by restricted by all the normal movement rules. Such as not being able to move within 1" of the enemy, off the table, or into impassible. Thus making mishaps impossible. Obviously this is not the case, as mishaps are clearly something that can happen and are meant to be possible, so scatter cannot be movement, and the unit is not actually on the table yet. You place a model to mark position, then scatter, and then place the unit. Scatter isn't a movement of the actual unit, it's a repositioning of the marker to determine where they actually arrive (or attempt to, before mishapping).
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/11/12 03:59:29
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More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/12 04:02:38
Subject: Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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Mannahnin wrote:There is no skimmer rule to move the shortest distance off.
If a Deep Striking unit scatters into impassible terrain, off the table, or within 1" of enemy models, it mishaps.
Drop Pods have a special rule called Inertial Guidance saying that IF they would scatter into impassible or enemy models, you reduce the scatter by enough to avoid the mishap. I believe tyranid spore pods have a rule which functions identically.
No other Deep Striking units have this protection.
Mycetic Spores have similar wording, as well as Trygons/Trygon Primes. Mawlocs have pseudo-protection but only against models.
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Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/12 04:10:49
Subject: Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
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Thanks!
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Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
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The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/12 04:30:37
Subject: Re:Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Gravmyr wrote:Not reduce it's scatter no. Would scattering onto a model activate the skimmer rule to move the shortest distance off? Per deep striking the DS ability the model is considered to have moved and would that be enough to move them off a model? IGS states only land on yet as multiple people have posted it's not RAW yet you move it if it lands within one inch. It is RAW that if it would end it's movement over a model that a Skimmer is moved off the model the shortest distance. It is RAW that you can't move within one inch of an enemy model which would imply that you would move it at least an inch away from enemy models. To me this is an actual RAW interpretation while IGS is clearly not yet the only reason anyone has given for why IGS is treated that way is "cause it is" the same for why skimmers Deep Striking wouldn't is the same....
It seems like your talking about the last part of the skimmer movement rules BRB pg.83.
If a skimmer is forced to end it;s move over friendly or enemy models, move the skimmer the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it.
I could definitely see a good argument being made that the skimmer should in-fact have it's base slid 1" away from enemy models in this scenario. Note that this if when a skimmer is FORCED TO MOVE onto models, not when it moves normally in it's movement phase, when it Deep Strikes, etc.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/12 09:09:43
Subject: Re:Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I'm not gonna lie, at first I thought you were fishing for a cheesy way to apply Inertial Guidance rules to your deepstriking skimmers, so if my earlier post seemed a little condescending... it probably was, so I apologise
I don't think this actually has anything to do with the drop pod inertial guidance rules though, it seems to stand up on its own. If I am understanding you correctly now, I think the reason you even brought up drop pod IGS was to figure out what happens if you land between 0" and 1", which is not 'on' a model as per the precise rules but is still not allowed. I don't think this is answered in either the IGS rules or the Skimmer rule on pg83. I think the intent is perfectly clear, at least for IGS, that you are not supposed to mishap due to the 0" to 1", but you are right in that technically it is not stated.
I've got to say, after getting home and reading pg 83 for myself, you've got a pretty decent case here. Is this how anyone else has been playing it? I'd never interpreted the rule that way before, and it would make double- HF landspeeders an interesting choice. Purely out of interest, what skimmer are you hoping to more safely deepstrike under this rule?
edit: And to NeoParn - I think a deepstrike scatter is a reasonable example of being forced to move over something. What other conditions would any skimmer be forced to move against a player's wishes? Knowing the answer to that question would be a way to discredit the argument against it affecting deepstrike.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/12 09:11:59
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/12 12:35:16
Subject: Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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The Hive Mind
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Being immobilized on a Tank Shock could force it to happen.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/12 17:32:15
Subject: Re:Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Cryogen wrote:
edit: And to NeoParn - I think a deepstrike scatter is a reasonable example of being forced to move over something. What other conditions would any skimmer be forced to move against a player's wishes? Knowing the answer to that question would be a way to discredit the argument against it affecting deepstrike.
Tank-shocking is the example I was thinking of (thanks rigeld2), though perhaps they are referring to the same forces that might cause a flyer to move less than 18"; really I feel like this is where the two discussions in this thread come together. See, when you Deep Strike are you?:
A) Placing a model as a marker; scattering the final position of that marker, deploy unit into the position of this marker
B) Placing a model; then being forced to move that model the distance on the scatter die (ignoring all objects and/or any movement restrictions along the way) to it's final position
So in scenario (A) the unit is not forced to move on-top of models, instead they have scattered during a deep-strike attempt and the mishap rule would take over, as opposed to (B) where deep-strike scatter is a forced movement that a model makes. I'm inclined to believe it's (A) but I can't find any direct quote or FAQ the confirm.
Also I feel the need to correct myself, the skimmer's base does not need to be 1" away from enemies; rather the base is ignored and the HULL must be 1" away. Given the slight elevation of a flying base this could be an advantage in avoiding mishaps by itself
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/12 18:09:42
Subject: Re:Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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The first model by necessity cannot interact with the game at all until after the scatter roll, and scatter isn't movement in and of itself.
Examples:
Assuming the first model is more than a marker to represent the unit and that scatter is actual movement:
The first Model is placed in dangerous or difficult (but not impassible) terrain. It must immediately (before rolling for scatter) take a dangerous terrain test. Let's assume it is removed as a casualty. There is no longer a model to scatter (or not, if a hit is rolled), and no model to place the rest of the unit around. What happens now?
The first model is placed next to dangerous terrain, and then scatters 12" to the other side. If the scatter is movement, the model must take a dangerous terrain test. Let's assume it is removed as a casualty. There is no longer a model to place the rest of the unit around. What happens now?
In both of these examples the initial placement is legal in any circumstance, but there are a host of additional rules that would have to be written to cover the "more than a marker", and "scatter is actual movement" positions.
If the initial model is simply a marker until scatter is resolved, then the deepstrike rules work fine as written with no house-ruling needed. This also means that the initial placement can be on/in impassible terrain and enemy units, as it does not interact with the game at all until after the scatter roll.
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/12 22:05:37
Subject: Re:Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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That's exactly what I was asking about Cryo. The Not on top of a model part of the rule.
As far as what model I'm asking about specifically it's the monolith which due to the current setup is virtually unusable as a deep striker due to the size. The BRB asserts that Deep Striking is movement per page 36 in the section about shooting after DSing. I want to place my model here and scatter forces it over an enemy/friendly model then I would say the skkimmer rule kicks in and moves it off the models.
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ADD causes my posts to ramble from time to time. Please bear with me.
You're not a Time Lord stick with linear time.
Specific Vs General |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/12 22:52:14
Subject: Re:Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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BGB pg. 36 wrote:If any of the models in a deep striking unit cannot be deployed, because
at least one model would land partially or fully off the table,
in impassable terrain, on top of a friendly model, or on top of
or within I " of an enemy model, something has gone wrong.
The controlling player must roll on the Deep strike Mishap
table and apply the results.
BGB Pg. 83 wrote:If a Skimmer is forced to end its move over friendly or enemy
models, move the Skimmer the minimum distance so that no
models are left underneath it.
I posit that the skimmer rule does not apply here, as the skimmer's move has not ended until after the mishap result is rolled. If, after scatter, the skimmer would land on top of any unit, it immediately triggers the mishap, and only if a destroyed result is rolled, would you move the skimmer until it is no longer over the unit in question, then wreck it. In any other result, the end of the skimmer's move would not be over another unit.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/12 23:21:57
Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 00:05:30
Subject: Re:Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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You can also look at it as it wouldn't land there because the skimmer rule moves it.... How do you know if there will be models under it till it's move is finished? Do I have to actually set my monolith down on my opponents troops before I know? In a civilized game my move is finished from the scatter when I hold it over my opponents models and see it would be on them which then triggers the Skimmer's rule about movement. In order to decide which order you are giving precedent I believe the player who's turn it is chooses as the same action triggers both... the skimmer rule actually prevents you from ever actually landing on an enemy model. You can't do it so you wouldn't be landing on it.
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ADD causes my posts to ramble from time to time. Please bear with me.
You're not a Time Lord stick with linear time.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 00:07:20
Subject: Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
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The skimmer rule about being "forced" to end its move over a unit only comes up in Death or Glory/Tank Shocking, if it's Stunned/Immobilized trying to tank shock one unit while still over another.
Deep Strike Scatter is not movement. When the unit lands, that's movement. If you treat Scatter as if it were movement, it becomes impossible for any Deep Striking unit to ever mishap.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/13 00:08:01
Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
Maelstrom's Edge! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/14 01:37:22
Subject: Re:Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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Whoops misread that. NVM.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/14 01:46:17
ADD causes my posts to ramble from time to time. Please bear with me.
You're not a Time Lord stick with linear time.
Specific Vs General |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/14 22:53:43
Subject: Re:Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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Thank you for wording it in such a way as I can make my thoughts a bit more clear. I equate DSing with movement. I equate Scatter with being Stunned/Immobilized. This is how I see DSing a skimmer working.
1 Place Model
2 Roll for scatter
3 If scatter forces skimmer over a model Skimmer rule kicks in determining final position of skimmer
4 Check for conditions causing mishaps
The reason I believe skimmers benefit from this is under DS rules when you figure out where scatter places you this is referred to as the model's final position. (pg 36) Scatter forcing a skimmer over a model activates it's rule as the rule is not limited in it's section to only being stunned/immobilized just that it is forced to end it's move there. (pg 83) After final placement is determined is when mishaps are checked for but the skimmer rule would now have the skimmer off of models.
Edit: Misspellings
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/11/14 22:55:01
ADD causes my posts to ramble from time to time. Please bear with me.
You're not a Time Lord stick with linear time.
Specific Vs General |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/14 22:55:50
Subject: Re:Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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The Hive Mind
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Gravmyr wrote:Thank you for wording it in such a way as I can make my thoughts a bit more clear. I equate DSing with movement. I equate Scatter with being Stunned/Immobilized.
Why do you equate them?
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/14 23:24:57
Subject: Re:Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws
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Can drop pods fire the turn they land or is it considered that they have moved too far?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/15 00:19:24
Subject: Re:Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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They all force you to end you move in a place other than where you want.
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ADD causes my posts to ramble from time to time. Please bear with me.
You're not a Time Lord stick with linear time.
Specific Vs General |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/15 00:59:38
Subject: Re:Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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They are considered to have moved at Cruising Speed.
So can fire all the weapons that Cruising Speed allows.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/15 02:20:09
Subject: Re:Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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The Hive Mind
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Gravmyr wrote:They all force you to end you move in a place other than where you want.
So no rules basis on equating them?
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/15 04:25:44
Subject: Re:Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws
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grendel083 wrote:
They are considered to have moved at Cruising Speed.
So can fire all the weapons that Cruising Speed allows.
Hmmm so no firing the death wind launcher until turn 2.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/15 04:27:10
Subject: Re:Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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IIRC same way it was in 5th, albeit for a different reason.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/15 04:30:14
Subject: Re:Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
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Gravmyr wrote:The reason I believe skimmers benefit from this is under DS rules when you figure out where scatter places you this is referred to as the model's final position. ( pg 36) Scatter forcing a skimmer over a model activates it's rule as the rule is not limited in it's section to only being stunned/immobilized just that it is forced to end it's move there. ( pg 83) After final placement is determined is when mishaps are checked for but the skimmer rule would now have the skimmer off of models.
The hole in this line of reasoning, as I already pointed out, is that IF you do this; if you treat the Scatter as being movement, so as to allow the Skimmer rule to apply, then no unit can ever mishap. Because the movement rules for every other unit also forbid them to move within 1" of the enemy, to move off the table, or to move into Impassible terrain. So if Scattering is movement, it not only triggers the skimmer rule, it also is bound by those restrictions, and ergo no Mishap can ever happen.
This is clearly not how the rules work.
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Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
Maelstrom's Edge! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/15 10:07:35
Subject: Re:Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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The DS is the movement, the scatter a special occurrence like failing a tank shock, becoming immobilized, or being stunned which can all leave the skimmer in a position over models. All of those actions can occur during a normal move and force the skimmer to stop over models but are not in themselves movement.
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ADD causes my posts to ramble from time to time. Please bear with me.
You're not a Time Lord stick with linear time.
Specific Vs General |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/15 12:45:09
Subject: Re:Drop Pod / Skimmer Mishap
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The Hive Mind
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Gravmyr wrote:The DS is the movement, the scatter a special occurrence like failing a tank shock, becoming immobilized, or being stunned which can all leave the skimmer in a position over models. All of those actions can occur during a normal move and force the skimmer to stop over models but are not in themselves movement.
If the DS is movement it'd be illegal for any model to be in impassable terrain or on top of enemy models.
So there'd never be a mishap.
You have to apply your interpretation to every model type, not just skimmers.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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