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Moronic Nonsense wrote:
So CHS has not specifically said these were kroxigor replacements on there website, but the sculptor has. I have been following his progress on another forum, and nowhere does he ever call them 'lizard-ogres' they are kroxigors and we all know it.
No knock on the artist, they are good models. But I just don't think anybody should be able to cast and sell their own versions, basically leaching off of the game the GW owns and maintains. If there was a different game that these were meant for, I'd be fine with them.

Really? You're drawing the line at these not-Kroxigor? Their whole range is based on that idea. I was shocked they didn't call them Kroxigor. Ever since the lawsuit started, they've boldly used GW names for everything they can with few exceptions like the truscale Space Marines. Not calling them Kroxigor... I dunno, makes them feel a little less bold. It's weird that while you drew the line at these, so did Chapterhouse.

My only real complaint with them is they describe themselves as making 'high end' resin and metal parts, when they're really, really far from being high end.

Thanks also for the better pictures of the various products in use. The ammo feeds look quite good. How flexible are they, and how do you stop paint flaking off them once painted?

Thanks. For some reason I dont know why the missile green and the painted ditto look so different. Maybe a new mold would be in order, dunno.

The ammo feeds are as flexible as pewter normally is, meaning you can bend them pretty much and unless you keep bending back and forth metal fatigue shouldnt be a problem. I sure have used even pliers to bend the odd lone link in the exact right angle that I wanted now and then and nothing happened.

We all tried putting resin in hot water but I have no idea how metal would bend after a hot bath, imo that is not necessary. As I said, I can take and post more and better pics of my personal minis that use those feed lines so you can take a look (if you want me to) how I use mine and what can be done to/with them.

As for painting, remember to bend and clip them to size/shape and get a nice fit before you paint them, that is what I do and hence I didnt have to find out if the paint would flake of or not since I never had to bend the painted ammo feeders.

Not being glib here at all, but perhaps the lesson to take away from this is to get a courier company to deliver items like this that are for casting instead of USPS?

In retrospect yes. However during all my time sending packages to people as well as my friends had over the years not once did anything like this happen.
The package that was lost contained more masters then the missile launcher plus had a ton of minis and other things in it put by me as gifts to a friend so that one really sucked.

 -Loki- wrote:
My only real complaint with them is they describe themselves as making 'high end' resin and metal parts, when they're really, really far from being high end.

Don’t be so naive. There isn’t a company out there that describes themselves as “average” or “middling”. Do you get hung up whenever a company calls itself “The number one choice for [insert service here]” or “The best [whatever] in town!”? I doubt it.

 -Loki- wrote:

Moronic Nonsense wrote:
So CHS has not specifically said these were kroxigor replacements on there website, but the sculptor has. I have been following his progress on another forum, and nowhere does he ever call them 'lizard-ogres' they are kroxigors and we all know it.
No knock on the artist, they are good models. But I just don't think anybody should be able to cast and sell their own versions, basically leaching off of the game the GW owns and maintains. If there was a different game that these were meant for, I'd be fine with them.

Really? You're drawing the line at these not-Kroxigor? Their whole range is based on that idea. I was shocked they didn't call them Kroxigor. Ever since the lawsuit started, they've boldly used GW names for everything they can with few exceptions like the truscale Space Marines. Not calling them Kroxigor... I dunno, makes them feel a little less bold. It's weird that while you drew the line at these, so did Chapterhouse.

I draw the line where on full models which replace a model gw has already in existence. i.e. kroxigors,
When GW had no wolves, I was ok with seeing 3rd party models, as that does not take away from GW because they have no option anyways.
When GW made the ugly storm raven, CHS made the extension kit. Which I think is ok. It does not replace the storm raven, it enhances it, so it does not take away from the original co.
When bits are hard to come by, and not available as just that bit, I'm ok with looking at 3rd party.

So to clarify myself, if a 3rd party product replaces the original, I don't think it is ok. If it enhances the original model, or if there is no original model, 3rd party stuff is ok.

If only companies didn't make space knights or space soldiers. And all those companies making elves and dwarfs!

The ammo belts look nice.

Surely there a better threads out there to discuss the chapterhouse vs GW debate?

Moronic Nonsense wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

Moronic Nonsense wrote:
So CHS has not specifically said these were kroxigor replacements on there website, but the sculptor has. I have been following his progress on another forum, and nowhere does he ever call them 'lizard-ogres' they are kroxigors and we all know it.
No knock on the artist, they are good models. But I just don't think anybody should be able to cast and sell their own versions, basically leaching off of the game the GW owns and maintains. If there was a different game that these were meant for, I'd be fine with them.

Really? You're drawing the line at these not-Kroxigor? Their whole range is based on that idea. I was shocked they didn't call them Kroxigor. Ever since the lawsuit started, they've boldly used GW names for everything they can with few exceptions like the truscale Space Marines. Not calling them Kroxigor... I dunno, makes them feel a little less bold. It's weird that while you drew the line at these, so did Chapterhouse.

I draw the line where on full models which replace a model gw has already in existence. i.e. kroxigors,

So, like, a Farseer? Or, like, a Haemonculous? Because both of those are made by Chapterhouse. Full models. Granted, in these cases, they didn't call them Farseers or Haemonculous like they didn't call this a Kroxigor.

As I said, strange place to draw the line. They've had full replacement models for GW models for a while now.

I think they look great.

Clearly, the missile launcher pic used by CHS could be much better - the other pics do indeed give a better indication of the product, which, if I did not already have my cyclones, I would buy.

On the lizards, I would use them a supplemental models - sometimes its nice to NOT have everything the same pose.

(oh and my aliens and gundam are watching the IP debate with humor...oh, I mean my nids and tau).

Once I get my lizard man army started, I am very much going to pick up those big guys - likewise, I would pay for more diverse models in many ranges (not easy to repose finecast and plastic).

 Pyriel- wrote:

Not being glib here at all, but perhaps the lesson to take away from this is to get a courier company to deliver items like this that are for casting instead of USPS?

In retrospect yes. However during all my time sending packages to people as well as my friends had over the years not once did anything like this happen.
The package that was lost contained more masters then the missile launcher plus had a ton of minis and other things in it put by me as gifts to a friend so that one really sucked.

Strange, since I shipped out the sculpts for the Teminator Cyclone launchers in the same box with the Tau heads.

The "cathedral" design was my concept, CHS had me sculpt a different one. I threw that in because I thought it looked cool. It also went over the shoulders because many of the terminator shoulder pads are pretty large and I thought if "looked right" and felt more balanced.

Unfortunately had CHS asked me to redo the sculpt I wouldn't have been able to anyway; I had several other sculpting commissions to finish that had close deadlines. I had already missed 2 deadlines by a couple of weeks and didn't want to miss any more.

It's possible that some of the "wonkiness" of the sculpt is that the sculptor might not have had enough time to finesse it, I know I get rushed a lot.

When I feel like I'm being rushed I have to force myself to calm down, relax and tell myself that "it's only late until it's shipped, but it can suck forever." So I try to take my time.

Perhaps I was unclear?

The topic is NOT your opinion on CH's business model. Take it elsewhere, if you must.

 Pyriel- wrote:
For some reason I dont know why the missile green and the painted ditto look so different. Maybe a new mold would be in order, dunno.

Could be the painting or lighting that is asymmetric.

Strange, since I shipped out the sculpts for the Teminator Cyclone launchers in the same box with the Tau heads.

I took your masters and did "repair" work on them. Cutting away sloppy pieces, sculpting replacements, filing of the entire bottom and replacing it since the fit wasnt good enough. Afterwards I shipped the various finished pieces in the order I got them done and one package was lost.

Nothing strange abut it.

Could be the painting or lighting that is asymmetric.

Hope so, it sucks when a master is wrecked in casting but Nick should know how that turned out plus have the original master at hand if it survived.

I rather like the missile launcher. I hope it's jus thte paint job that makes it look a bit wonky in the preview pics.
Honestly, from what I've bought from Chapterhouse, the quality can be hit or miss. Still, I'd be willing to give these a shot.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Could be the painting or lighting that is asymmetric.

This. That paint job does not seem to do the piece any favors. I appreciate that they are trying to showcase it, but sometimes less is more.

 Pyriel- wrote:

Strange, since I shipped out the sculpts for the Teminator Cyclone launchers in the same box with the Tau heads.

I took your masters and did "repair" work on them. Cutting away sloppy pieces, sculpting replacements, filing of the entire bottom and replacing it since the fit wasnt good enough. Afterwards I shipped the various finished pieces in the order I got them done and one package was lost.

Nothing strange abut it

Interesting since my work has never been called "sloppy" by any of the other companies I've sculpted for. If anything I've been complimented on how clean my work is.

Not sure what replacements you are talking about. Looking at the pics Prplehippo posted everything looks pretty clean, the missiles too. The bottom seemed fine to me, since I sculpted it on the Terminator model itself so it would fit.

If changes were needed that should have been communicated to me by CHS, which is what every other company does that I've worked for.

Nor has anything I ever shipped out not being in the same box as what I received been called "strange".
Was a reaction to you questioning why the post office lost a package that I sent.



As for sloppy and CHS needed to communicate it well, it wasnt needed, first of all I didnt see it in the pics and even if I had I would be ok with it.
What I did was remake some of the "arrows" on the ornamental bands since they werent sharp. I also remade the bottom to enable a fit, has nothing to do with CHS, was my own initiative taken after delivery and lastly the second missile launcher, the "tubes" (that also "strangely" got lost in transit) needed to have their eagles replaced, I redid 3 out of 4 wings to make sharper "feathers" with an aesthetics more to my personal liking and I redid both of the "bodies" to also, make them look more to my taste.

My take, my initiative, my feeling of aesthetics. I´m sorry you took it as a personal insult to your skill, it wasnt, Im just blunt telling what I did without sugar coating anything.
Then again you better get used to things like this happening with me it since in my experience ALL sculpts made by one person will be slightly fixed up by another. Personally I'm not offended if other sculptors "correct" my work now and then since I know perfectly well that if I sit for hours over a piece then I wont see the errors I make as clearly as a fresh sculptor might thus, the end result is always better if multiple artists can hold a piece in their hands.
Its not critique its pure pragmatism.

Further on if you felt upset that I had to fix some what I called "sloppy" things...dont. After all, I liked the launcher you did so much that I decided, despite fuming with rage at the post office, to sit down and take the hours to make another, similar one after the masters were lost in transit.
That if anything should tell you enough about how I valued what I saw you made. Take that as a compliment...and I dont make them easy!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
My only real complaint with them is they describe themselves as making 'high end' resin and metal parts, when they're really, really far from being high end.

Don’t be so naive. There isn’t a company out there that describes themselves as “average” or “middling”. Do you get hung up whenever a company calls itself “The number one choice for [insert service here]” or “The best [whatever] in town!”? I doubt it.

Nah, the proper terms for that sort of company are "discount" or "budget"

I like the ammo feeds and the lizards are good. I wish the rocket launcher had been the Mark 1. Curious that if it was lost the same sculptor was not asked to make another master. The current one is okay but the lines are poor and the general work is less good than the original. Personally I think it would do well on chaos stuff as a havoc launcher.

MajorWesJanson wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
My only real complaint with them is they describe themselves as making 'high end' resin and metal parts, when they're really, really far from being high end.

Don’t be so naive. There isn’t a company out there that describes themselves as “average” or “middling”. Do you get hung up whenever a company calls itself “The number one choice for [insert service here]” or “The best [whatever] in town!”? I doubt it.

Nah, the proper terms for that sort of company are "discount" or "budget"

A better term would be "value"

An even better thing would be to stay on topic and heed the warnings other Moderators have already placed in this thread.

And that's the absolute final warning to do so - past this point, warnings and/or suspensions will be handed out.

I say just lock it. Every time CHS posts anything it's just a siren call to our resident White Knights to come a'charging.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I say just lock it. Every time CHS posts anything it's just a siren call to our resident White Knights to come a'charging.

I would rather mods start slapping people around for not listening as its useless to keep seeing the same old crap in every thread...more then enough people here like and or want to see the new stuff from CHS so the detractors need to learn they arent going to destroy every thread

On topic, where do the ammo belts connect in the back? Do you just tuck them under the backpack?

Since my Red Hunters are all Grey Knights models, I thought I could use these with the Knights models and jump packs as Assault Marines.

On topic, where do the ammo belts connect in the back? Do you just tuck them under the backpack?

That would basically be your own choice where you want to bend them towards.

Myself in the pics I posted, I use mine to go from the weapon to right between the backpack and the torso, they connect to the slightly raised piece where the backpack is glued to.

Well, since several people seem to like the missile launcher in theory but found the execution lacking, do you guys have any plans to remaster the concept? If so, it might be wise to say so up front so the early adopters don't feel burned.

I know that Anvil Industries is constantly in a state of refining his core designs to his benefit, and I think it shows with how good they have become.

SERIOUS OPPINION OF A POTENTIAL COSTUMER HERE:

CHS do it again. Comes with a nice concept, dig into a great thing we all want to see, and dont do it in a quite good way...

Missile Launcher looks horrible for me, and i will not buy it.

The pads, the ammo belts and the Lizards? Great stuff, great ideias, great exectution...

Right now, CHS seens to me as a very "hit or miss" company, they never give me feelings like "maybe if". It is always "i will buy when a need it", or "meh, not that...".

Just a quick note from an artist.

Telling someone that you think their product is crap is useful feedback.

Telling them WHY you think it's crap is more useful, as it gives them a direction to go for improving the product.

Same goes for telling them why you think the product is awesome. It gives them ideas on what to do on the next product.

 Pyriel- wrote:
As I said, I can take and post more and better pics of my personal minis that use those feed lines so you can take a look (if you want me to) how I use mine and what can be done to/with them.

As for painting, remember to bend and clip them to size/shape and get a nice fit before you paint them, that is what I do and hence I didnt have to find out if the paint would flake of or not since I never had to bend the painted ammo feeders.

I'd love to see some detailed pics of them in use on your figures.

Sorry to hear about the loss of your parcel. I had a delivery of commission-painted models I had done for a friend stolen when the postie left his trolley unattended in a dodgy street in Sydney, which was going to pay for a (3rd? 4th?) Ed 40k box in trade. That one sucked bigtime for both of us.

I think the lizard ogres look great but fall down in two areas:

1. The weapons are soft, squishy looking things that really don't match the rest of the sculpt.
2. The tails are anatomically improbable. The angle they stick out at would mean that the creatures' spines are kinked at 90 degrees from their bodies. A smooth curve would have been better.

Their heads are very nicely sculpted and other than those two problems I think they're great models.

Hi everyone, just thought I'd throw my hat in the ring. I am the sculptor of the Croc-Ogres (call them what you will). Interesting reading your comments. Just wanted to reply to angryboy2k, and perhaps others if they are interested in corresponding. On your two points -

1) I really don't know what you mean by the weapons being "soft" - they are almost entirely comprised of hard angles and edges, except for decorative touches and the grips, which certainly would be designed for the comfort of the user. The "business ends" of the weapons surely would leave a nasty mark on anyone struck by them...my 2 cents.

2) you are correct about the shape of the spine at the base of the tail, but that's fantasy for you. The alternative would be to have the tails drag on the ground (not very impressive, IMO), or have the figures leaning far forward like a t-rex or velociraptor bipedal dinosaur. That wouldn't look very Ogre-like, nor would it fit well in a Skrox unit. Those familiar with old school GW Krox will note that these models also had the L-shaped spine at the base of the tail thing happening.

On that last point, I did indeed make these as proxies for my GW Lizardman army, but by no means did I copy GW's artwork, as a side by side comparison surely shows. My collection of GW krox mostly consists of 5th edition figures with a few 7th edition thrown in. I am really not a fan of the 7th edition ones, as i find the anatomy very crude and the detailing to be over the top with fiddly bits. My goal however, since I use both versions, was to make something that looked like a missing link between the two...so if the 5th edition figures was the homo habilis, and the 7th edition was the homo spaien, I was going for something in-between, like homo-erectus. For head and face inspiration (and the scales and tails) I went to the natural world for inspiration, particularly crocodiles (as they are Croc-Orges) with a little snake thrown in, just because I find their stone cold expressions to be creepy.

FWIW, here is a photo of one of my Skrox units, with the GW figure used as a sort of champion, flanked by my guys. Note that the orange color scheme is rather unorthodox, and I'm looking forward to seeing how other people interpret these in more traditional colors: