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Searched in vain for the thread so started a new one.

In the new CSM codex characters need to replace weapons to take new weapons from the armory. Most characters start out with a bolt pistol and ccw, or bolt pistol and force weapon or yadda yadda, most come with 2 weapons. Now if you take a bike, it says the bike is fitted with a twinlinked boltgun which does not replace your weapon as it does not require you to.

Now the question is can you replace that twinlinked boltgun with another weapon, a combi bolter for instance? Or the Burning Brand of Skalathrax, which is a special flamer.

Regular CSM bikers can that take a special weapon can replace the twinlinked boltgun on their bike with a meltagun or plasmagun, so I am leaning towards yes.

It specifically states that they can replace the Twin-Linked Bolter with either a Meltagun/Plasmagun in the entry. Nowhere in the Chaos Wargear section does it state you can replace another piece of wargear with a piece of wargear.

You're stuck with a Twin Linked Bolter as the bike is a piece of wargear and the Lord/Sorcerer has no way of altering that wargear, they can only take it.

EDIT: And looking through, nowhere in the Chaos Wargear List does it say 'You may replace a bike's Twin-Linked Bolter with one of the following:', while in the Biker entry it specifically says you can replace it. Just a further elaboration on my dreadfully vague opening statement.

Jirin wrote:
It specifically states that they can replace the Twin-Linked Bolter with either a Meltagun/Plasmagun in the entry. Nowhere in the Chaos Wargear section does it state you can replace another piece of wargear with a piece of wargear.

You're stuck with a Twin Linked Bolter as the bike is a piece of wargear and the Lord/Sorcerer has no way of altering that wargear, they can only take it.

EDIT: And looking through, nowhere in the Chaos Wargear List does it say 'You may replace a bike's Twin-Linked Bolter with one of the following:', while in the Biker entry it specifically says you can replace it. Just a further elaboration on my dreadfully vague opening statement.

but to take a weapon you simply need to replace a weapon. It does not specify replace your bolt pistol or your ccw, or your force sword, it says any weapon.

are twin linked boltguns not weapons?

They are, but they are also an integral part of another item of wargear, rather than a stand-alone weapon that the character has.

I currently play it as being replaceable on my Lord's bike. The bike gives you access to a twin-linked bolter which you replace. Pretty straightforward.

Yes, you can replace the Bikes weapon with something else as its a weapon.

I can't actually find where it says a Lord must replace items to get them, can someone help me point out the page and approximate paragraph?

That said, the Bike actually is a specific wargear, fully kitted and bought as a whole. You can't replace it's armament unless given permission.

Why not?

The rules are you may replace a weapon the lord owns with a weapon from the wargear list.

The TL-bolter on the bike is a weapon.

The bike is a piece of wargear. It comes with twin-linked bolters.
The Lord does not have twin-linked bolters, the bike does. As such they aren't a weapon that can be swapped.

But where does it say he replaces weapons, I just can't find it. It says "May take items from the <lists>" and I can't find references for replacing anything.

Also, the bolter on the bike is part of Special Issue Wargear and is not a weapon he owns. You can't replace his Frag Grenade with a Melta Gun, can you?

The lord has the bike, therefore he has the TL-bolter.

I own an F-150, the F-150 has a V-8 engine. Therefore, I own a V-8 engine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mahtamori wrote:
You can't replace his Frag Grenade with a Melta Gun

This is because grenades arn't weapons.

And I think his entry says he replaces weapons for wargear from the lists.

As much as IRL comparisons make no sense - you void warranty if you replace engine.

Says "take" and not "replace" in my codex.

Frag Greandes are weapons according to the BRB appendix.

 Mahtamori wrote:
But where does it say he replaces weapons, I just can't find it. It says "May take items from the <lists>" and I can't find references for replacing anything.

Also, the bolter on the bike is part of Special Issue Wargear and is not a weapon he owns. You can't replace his Frag Grenade with a Melta Gun, can you?

Under the wargear list it says "A model can replace one weapon with..."

Bikes and grenades are listed under "special issue wargear," but the twin-linked bolter that the bike comes with is a perfectly fine "ranged weapon" as listed on page 65.

The thing is under the Chaos Biker list it specifically states; '..may replace either their close combat weapon or their bike's twin-linked boltgun with one of the following:'

Nowhere in the Chaos Wargear page nor in the Chaos Lord entry does it state you can replace a Bike's twin-linked boltgun with anything. you are given permission to exchange a model's ranged weapon but not the bike's twin-linked boltgun. The Bikers get a specific exception and wording for this, while the Lord/Sorc do not.

Who cares what the Biker entry says.

All that matters is Chaos Lords may replace any weapon with a list of items.

A Bike gives the Chaos Lord a weapon.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Who cares what the Biker entry says.

All that matters is Chaos Lords may replace any weapon with a list of items.

A Bike gives the Chaos Lord a weapon.

Why not just trade away the grenades? They are both ranged and CC weapons.

Grenades are special issue wargear, not weapons.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Grenades are special issue wargear, not weapons.

I see Grenades under the Chapter entitled "Weapons" in the BRB. Furthermore, on page 61 of the BRB, it specifically states that grenades can be used as a Melee weapon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Furthermore, Blight Grenades and Melta bombs are the only grenades I see listed under SI Wargear.

 Mahtamori wrote:
I can't actually find where it says a Lord must replace items to get them, can someone help me point out the page and approximate paragraph?

That said, the Bike actually is a specific wargear, fully kitted and bought as a whole. You can't replace it's armament unless given permission.

and the lord was bought fully kitted with a CCW and Bolt Pistol.

The permission is given that a character can replace any of his weapons with another one, the twinlinked boltgun is a weapon and it is the characters


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jirin wrote:

Nowhere in the Chaos Wargear page nor in the Chaos Lord entry does it state you can replace a Bike's twin-linked boltgun with anything. you are given permission to exchange a model's ranged weapon but not the bike's twin-linked boltgun. The Bikers get a specific exception and wording for this, while the Lord/Sorc do not.

Under Melee weapons, Ranged Weapons and Chaos Artefacts it says "A model can replace one weapon" not one bolt pistol, not one ccw, not one weapon that he started with, not one weapon that is not on a bike, but JUST weapon.

Does the lord have a "Twin-Linked Bolter" listed in his wargear, or just the Bike?

If it is the former then he can replace it, if it is the latter he can not.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Does the lord have a "Twin-Linked Bolter" listed in his wargear, or just the Bike?

If it is the former then he can replace it, if it is the latter he can not.

As above.

The lord may take a Bike; the bike has a twin-linked bolter.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Does the lord have a "Twin-Linked Bolter" listed in his wargear, or just the Bike?

If it is the former then he can replace it, if it is the latter he can not.

As above.

The lord may take a Bike; the bike has a twin-linked bolter.

So the bike's TL bolter can't actually be fired, since the Lord doesn't have it, and the Bike does not have a BS value?

the bike is a piece of wargear with its own rules. the warlord has 2 weapons he can replace.. such as his ccw and pistol... he can take wargear as well.. the wargear cannot be altered. unless you have something saying the lord can excange the Tl bolter on his bike for something else. then you cannot.. the rule is a permissive set..meaning it gives you permission .. no permission.. no change..

A TL-bolter on a bike is a weapon. Chaos Lords have permission to replace ANY weapon with a weapon from the wargear list. it doesn't matter how they got that weapon, just that they have it.

If the Chaos Lord can't swap the TL-bolter for something, then he actually can't fire it at all. As Avatar 720 pointed out.


A Chaos Lord could infinitly replace a purchased weapon with another purchased weapon and so on.

man...wheres nosferatu when you need him... but you are wrong... is it posted in the lords rules anywhere? and plus who would want to fire the tl bolter anyway?..lol the bike is really just there for movement and increased toughness..

 Avatar 720 wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Does the lord have a "Twin-Linked Bolter" listed in his wargear, or just the Bike?

If it is the former then he can replace it, if it is the latter he can not.

As above.

The lord may take a Bike; the bike has a twin-linked bolter.

So the bike's TL bolter can't actually be fired, since the Lord doesn't have it, and the Bike does not have a BS value?

Incorrect the Lord has a bike, the bike has a weapon.

"Each Bike or Jetbike in a unit can fire with one weapon for each rider on the Bike." P. 45

Is the TL bolter covered under the "one weapon" rule on P.45, Yes it is, as that rule does not care who, or what, possesses the weapon.

I didn't contest that the bike didn't have allowance to fire, only the fact that its lack of BS prevents it from doing so.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
I didn't contest that the bike didn't have allowance to fire, only the fact that its lack of BS prevents it from doing so.

My bolter doesn't have a listed BS either, and its wargear. My powersword doesn't have a WS listed... so either no wargear can use its weapon properties, or they all can

Back to the OP

A bike is wargear. Some wargear can be found under weapons. A bike isn't, can't replace it since it isn't a weapon. I don't even see the question here.

No. Bikes are wargear with fitted weapons. If those were replaceable with other options, it would be listed.

I would lean towards yes. The wargear is not at all specific about what can be replaced. If you argue the model doesn't have the weapon, p45 gives you no allowance to use their BS to make a shooting attack using a bike mounted weapon - it merely says they can fire a weapon for each rider. Well, if the model isn't counted as the bike, you cannot use the model's BS. The bike thus cannot shoot, which is obviously wrong. All the wargear section requires is the ability to replace a weapon. Hence, if the bike's gun can be used, it must be replaceable as it must be part of the model to use their BS.

I'll admit that looks flimsy but it seems to work at least.