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Borderline cheesy trick: Put 3 vehicles with long-rage guns on top of a Skyshield Landing Pad (parked in a corner) with the sides up, giving them all a 4+ invulnerable save. I ran against this last week with my DE army and got utterly mauled, even after devoting as much firepower as absolutely possible at it.

 Valhalla130 wrote:
What kind of wargear do you give your captains/lieutenants/sergeants? Or do you bother with wargear at all for them?

BS 4 models will occasionally get dual plasma pistols if I have an extra 20 points, but no other upgrades. If it isn't a gun, it isn't worth taking.

 kestril wrote:
If they are in a plasmavet/plasmacommand squad, I give 'em a pair of plasma pistols. Why not?

Also, I occasionally run a plasma sarge in with my stormtroopers.

I run a plasma pistol/melta bombs, but that is because I like the model I have for it.

A powerfist is not a bad bet, however.

 Valhalla130 wrote:
What kind of wargear do you give your captains/lieutenants/sergeants? Or do you bother with wargear at all for them?

At the moment, my sergeants are running naked, and my company commander is packing a single plasma pistol.

Commander: Power sword/plasma pistol
Lt#1: same as commander
Lt#2: bolt pistol
2 Sarges are power maul/bolt pistol, 2 are naked
Vet Sgt got 2 bolt pistols.

Thanks. It sounds like it all boils down to your personal playing style and what works for you. I just ran through a few lists in Army Builder with the IG models I have and even without adding in wargear, I came out with two platoons with 4 IS each and three Russ'. Plus my manticore and a penal squad. I'm seriously thinking about just running the penal squad as a regular squad. That way i can see it on the table top, and not have to worry about it.

OTOH, it would be the one fun, fluffy thing in my list... so I'll post my list later when I get off work for you guys to take apart and see where that gets me.

Penal legions are weak true, but they are scout AND stubborn, so always a nice unit to be a torn in a side; or a troops choice that,ll be ignorted and control an objective.

My Company Commander gets dual plasma pistols, my platoon commanders get laspistols and close combat weapons. Officers are for giving orders and occasionally doing a little bit of shooting. Sergeants and infantry squad commissars are for facepunching.

What kind of squads should get Commissars?
Are they best when put with a Vox?
Do they go best in squads with a naked Serg, or do you kit him out, too?
Do you upgrade the Commissar?

Commissars are a boon when they are in a blob, due to stubborn, also Ld9 on orders is a good thing, the vox reroll also helps to not have to shoot your sergeants. I plan on making a small blob with the Sgts with power mauls and the commissars with a power Axe, and everyone with bolt pistols (for 2 pts you get Str4/AP5 over Str3AP-? Yes please) so it’ll give the blob some teeth in melee/challenges.

 Valhalla130 wrote:


How about this? Sponsons on Leman Russ' or not? I got to where I ran them without sponsons in 3rd edition. And I sort of think they look sleeker that way, but then, them looking like big behemoths is part of their charm.

I'm also interested in peoples opinions on this as in my planned army I am running 3 Russes (2 LRBT & 1 Executioner) and have not bought sponsons for them. Thoughts?

Inquisitor Jex wrote:Penal legions are weak

You can just stop it there. That's all you need to know about them.

Skinnereal wrote:What kind of squads should get Commissars?

Blobs. Pretty much nothing else.

Skinnereal wrote:Are they best when put with a Vox?

Nah. The commissar already makes the squad pass orders on Ld9 (or 10 if it's a lord). The vox becomes pretty unlikely to be used by that point.

Skinnereal wrote:Do they go best in squads with a naked Serg, or do you kit him out, too?

I wouldn't bother with power blobs anymore. Shooty blobs may be fine, though. In that case, other than MAYBE plasma pistols, I'd just leave them alone

Skinnereal wrote:Do you upgrade the Commissar?

Power weapon or nothing. Even the long odds of a commissar burning himself with a pistol aren't worth the damage output.

Valhalla wrote:Sponsons on Leman Russ' or not?

Yes sponsons.

With the new heavy rules, russes are now basically super up-armored HWSs. Sponsons are a very cheap way to add a bunch more firepower into your army, and they do it on a very durable frame as well.

Obviously you have to be a little more careful when talking about an LRBT or a demolisher, as they cause the rest to snap fire, but it can still be worth it here. For example, 20 points is still pretty cheap for 3 heavy bolters, even if they're snap firing. Also, you can always think of a sponsoned LRBT as being a tank with two fire modes. In this case, you gain the benefit of flexibility, and still for pretty cheap. For example, you can have bolters along with the main gun and then shoot the main gun at everything unless there are AV10 skimmers or monstrous creatures or terminators in front of you, in which case you can switch the tank into dakka mode for that turn.

Something I'm seriously considering running right now is an LRBT with sponson multimeltas. The battlecannon shoots at stuff unless really hard targets get in its face, in which case, it switches to multimelta. Between the battlecannon and the multimeltas, there isn't very much this tank can't handle.

Alrighty I think I'll contribute a bit -
Stormtroopers - Generally I run as follows

10 man x2 Plasma guns - 195 points , I build this to assassinate enemy HQ's and claim enemy ADL's when they have a gun emplacement , since my local meta is Space Marines and Necrons this works out fairly well , any other contributions ?

Melta bombs are <3, glanced the last hull point of a landraider with, really worth it, imo. Especially on a squad that will be in range since they'll come out of the Hades Breaching Drill, and they can throw demolition charge, too, so that's a lot of heavy damage.

Ok, the russes I have planned all have hull lascannons. Taking your points on board I can see that making sense with the executioner, but less so with the LRBT. I can see the appeal of extra cheap guns in the form of heavy bolters, it must also help with weapon destroyed results given that they're now randomly chosen.

Which are the best sponsons to take on the Executioner? my gut says extra PC but what do you think? If I'm taking sponsons should I just stick with the hull HB?

 wildboar wrote:
Ok, the russes I have planned all have hull lascannons. Taking your points on board I can see that making sense with the executioner, but less so with the LRBT. I can see the appeal of extra cheap guns in the form of heavy bolters, it must also help with weapon destroyed results given that they're now randomly chosen.

Which are the best sponsons to take on the Executioner? my gut says extra PC but what do you think? If I'm taking sponsons should I just stick with the hull HB?

Yeah, but those plasma sponsons have "Gets Hot", while the main Executioner cannon doesn't. I'm torn on this one. I'd really hate to pay 40 points to glance my own vehicle, but in 5th, they were so awesome...I still remember my buddy getting his LR across the field, and a whole squad of dual LC termies come pouring out, with a priest and a captain (BA). They wiped my bubblewrap squad, just like I was hoping, and then I rolled 5 direct hits with the scatter dice

All of my Leman Russ' have hull lascannons built in. This was back in the day when that was what came on a Leman Russ. I don't plan to pull them off either. So, I have hull lascannons and HB sponsons. Again, that's what they cam with at the time, so that's the way they're modeled.

Come to think of it, this seems to be a lesson to learn how to magnetize, since rules change.

Althornin wrote:

Which are the best sponsons to take on the Executioner? my gut says extra PC but what do you think? If I'm taking sponsons should I just stick with the hull HB?
Yeah, but those plasma sponsons have "Gets Hot", while the main Executioner cannon doesn't. I'm torn on this one. I'd really hate to pay 40 points to glance my own vehicle,

I see this argument for not using PC sponsons a lot "I could kill my own vehicle." I'll just throw in the main counter arguments I use.

1) Risk vs Reward. 40pts gives your Executioner 2/3 of the main gun again, which is incredibly cheap, which is balanced out by if you roll a 1, followed by <4 you can lose an HP. It drastically increases the points efficiency of what is a rather inefficient tank. It raises the ability of the tank to kill most of a squad, to comfortably wiping out a squad of MEQ or TEQ per turn.
The Executioner fills the role of "I take this to kill stuff" so it needs to put out as much damage as possible as quickly as possible for it to be worth taking in the first place. It has no other role and therefore it must excel at that one role, which it wouldn't do if you ignored the PC sponsons. It will be shot at, and potentially take damage from the sponsons (although quite unlikely) but it will also put out 2/3 more fire power on one target, and thus (as is the best way to analyse kill only units) will be more likely to make its points back.

2) You don't have to fire them. This sounds silly compared with my last point, but if the only target is easily killed by the 3 main cannon shots, you don't need to risk the over-heat. Obviously this is a poor situation, but it happens.

Are flamers worth it, especially on vets or stormtroopers, if you're constantly facing marines?

 Ailaros wrote:
I give my captain a power fist. He's got a decent WS, multiple wounds, and an invul save. Plus, your opponent is going to try and kill him. The powerfist is cheap, and gives him a real chance in close combat

The more games I play, the more I consider doing this, but then something screams "where would you get the points from?!" and I reconsider. The reason I'd like to do it, is that my captain generally does end up in CC, and usually survives one round only to hit back and ping off the enemy's armour with his las pistol and CCW. Those 20pts (or 25 I forget) means I could have the possibility of slapping around one of those guys who gets into combat with me. It's just...I'd have to give up a gun or two to afford something that might work.

It's probably drastically swayed by the fact we're playing a campaign and there are extra rewards for killing the warlord in a challenge that makes it so common, and my poor captain so consistently picked on.

 Griddlelol wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
I give my captain a power fist. He's got a decent WS, multiple wounds, and an invul save. Plus, your opponent is going to try and kill him. The powerfist is cheap, and gives him a real chance in close combat

The more games I play, the more I consider doing this, but then something screams "where would you get the points from?!" and I reconsider. The reason I'd like to do it, is that my captain generally does end up in CC, and usually survives one round only to hit back and ping off the enemy's armour with his las pistol and CCW. Those 20pts (or 25 I forget) means I could have the possibility of slapping around one of those guys who gets into combat with me. It's just...I'd have to give up a gun or two to afford something that might work.

It's probably drastically swayed by the fact we're playing a campaign and there are extra rewards for killing the warlord in a challenge that makes it so common, and my poor captain so consistently picked on.

I've been thinking about giving my captain a Power Maul - gives him S5, normal initiative, plus an extra attack over the PF, and for less cost. Sure, it doesn't pen MEQ/TEQ like a PF, but how often does your captain even live to swing that fist? And its better than a PF against everything but MEQ/TEQ (1 less strength offset by 1 more attack, lower cost, possible to reduce opponents initiative).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Griddlelol wrote:

Althornin wrote:

Which are the best sponsons to take on the Executioner? my gut says extra PC but what do you think? If I'm taking sponsons should I just stick with the hull HB?
Yeah, but those plasma sponsons have "Gets Hot", while the main Executioner cannon doesn't. I'm torn on this one. I'd really hate to pay 40 points to glance my own vehicle,

I see this argument for not using PC sponsons a lot "I could kill my own vehicle." I'll just throw in the main counter arguments I use.

1) Risk vs Reward. 40pts gives your Executioner 2/3 of the main gun again, which is incredibly cheap, which is balanced out by if you roll a 1, followed by <4 you can lose an HP. It drastically increases the points efficiency of what is a rather inefficient tank. It raises the ability of the tank to kill most of a squad, to comfortably wiping out a squad of MEQ or TEQ per turn.
The Executioner fills the role of "I take this to kill stuff" so it needs to put out as much damage as possible as quickly as possible for it to be worth taking in the first place. It has no other role and therefore it must excel at that one role, which it wouldn't do if you ignored the PC sponsons. It will be shot at, and potentially take damage from the sponsons (although quite unlikely) but it will also put out 2/3 more fire power on one target, and thus (as is the best way to analyse kill only units) will be more likely to make its points back.

2) You don't have to fire them. This sounds silly compared with my last point, but if the only target is easily killed by the 3 main cannon shots, you don't need to risk the over-heat. Obviously this is a poor situation, but it happens.

Lets see, It'll normally fire every sponson every turn, so 8 times over a game. Theoretically, you only have a 1/12 chance of losing a HP each shot, so thats only 2/3 HP each game...I think you've convinced me. I love the killy tank

Why would you take a power weapon on a senior officer when you could take a fist? It seems like you'd have to be really stretching for points before those last 5 made this decision seem worthwhile.

As for flamer vets, I can see them in a harkerstar to keep away close combat (their one weakness), but not otherwise. As for flamer stormies, I love them. Deepstriking means that they can get those flamers in nice and close, and can do it from whichever direction will give them the most hits. Combined with the hellguns, they do a superb job of throwing enemy scoring units off of objectives. Take them in 10-man squads for best effect.

As for plasma sponsons on an exterminator, I'm not a big fan. Against proper displacement, you're looking at getting 1 or 2 hits per turn at the cost of a 1/3rd chance to knock a hull point off of your own vehicle. I don't know if I'd bother with them even if they were free, much less 40 points.

I just realized today that although the codex discussed superheavy tanks, and they now make a Shadowsword and Baneblade kit, the IG codex does not include any info for those at all. Just one little fluff piece.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Melta bombs are <3, glanced the last hull point of a landraider with, really worth it, imo. Especially on a squad that will be in range since they'll come out of the Hades Breaching Drill, and they can throw demolition charge, too, so that's a lot of heavy damage.

Only on squads guaranteed to be in range of charging before they get shot to bits.

 Valhalla130 wrote:
I just realized today that although the codex discussed superheavy tanks, and they now make a Shadowsword and Baneblade kit, the IG codex does not include any info for those at all. Just one little fluff piece.

That's because they are Apocalypse-only units which are found in the Apocalypse expansion.

 Valhalla130 wrote:
I just realized today that although the codex discussed superheavy tanks, and they now make a Shadowsword and Baneblade kit, the IG codex does not include any info for those at all. Just one little fluff piece.

Same reason the SM dex doesn't have Thunderhawks.

And no codex has Titan rules.

 TheCaptain wrote:

 Valhalla130 wrote:
I just realized today that although the codex discussed superheavy tanks, and they now make a Shadowsword and Baneblade kit, the IG codex does not include any info for those at all. Just one little fluff piece.

Same reason the SM dex doesn't have Thunderhawks.

And no codex has Titan rules.

Aren't they FW, though?
GW's Baneblade sits enticingly on the IG shelf in the store, and you don't find out you can't use it without Apoc until you've read the codex.
Just hope the Redshirt is up to scratch.

Box is labeled Apocalypse.

 Griddlelol wrote:

Althornin wrote:

Which are the best sponsons to take on the Executioner? my gut says extra PC but what do you think? If I'm taking sponsons should I just stick with the hull HB?
Yeah, but those plasma sponsons have "Gets Hot", while the main Executioner cannon doesn't. I'm torn on this one. I'd really hate to pay 40 points to glance my own vehicle,

I see this argument for not using PC sponsons a lot "I could kill my own vehicle." I'll just throw in the main counter arguments I use.

1) Risk vs Reward. 40pts gives your Executioner 2/3 of the main gun again, which is incredibly cheap, which is balanced out by if you roll a 1, followed by <4 you can lose an HP. It drastically increases the points efficiency of what is a rather inefficient tank. It raises the ability of the tank to kill most of a squad, to comfortably wiping out a squad of MEQ or TEQ per turn.
The Executioner fills the role of "I take this to kill stuff" so it needs to put out as much damage as possible as quickly as possible for it to be worth taking in the first place. It has no other role and therefore it must excel at that one role, which it wouldn't do if you ignored the PC sponsons. It will be shot at, and potentially take damage from the sponsons (although quite unlikely) but it will also put out 2/3 more fire power on one target, and thus (as is the best way to analyse kill only units) will be more likely to make its points back.

2) You don't have to fire them. This sounds silly compared with my last point, but if the only target is easily killed by the 3 main cannon shots, you don't need to risk the over-heat. Obviously this is a poor situation, but it happens.

I agree, I would always use PC's on my Executioner, because:
1. They just fit so well with the main weapon. It would be like taking a pair of autocannon sponsons on an Exterminator (Imagine if you could do that!) or more realistically, HB sponsons on a Punisher.
2. The Executioner even got better as a Heavy vehicle, because now it can move 6" and fire what basically is 5 PC's and a HB!
3. You already take the Executioner to kill things dead, this upgrade will really help get you that result. I have not in any situation wished that I hadn't bought those sponsons.
4. I have found that Leman Russ variants rarely die of lost hull points over a period of time. For me they either die in a volley of meltaguns or being assaulted by something nasty in close combat. Neither of those situations would have a different outcome of you had 1, 2 or 3 hullpoints when it happened.

I am finding I once again want to buy and use a model just because it looks cool. That Vulture gunship looks neat.